I just read a few post on power commanders and yall got me. Rook and Hub seem to know everything there is to know but after, " Power Commander ..." I swear everything else was in Chinese.
#1 Stock bike (for now) If i get this now how will it effect my bike and will it be a hassle when i add my pipes?
#2 Why is it you need a pc when you just add slip ons?
#3 Do i need slip ons when i just want to change the sound of the bike and not the performance.

I'm the furthest thing from a tech guy. From what i've heard and read this is the first mod i should make. Or am i wrong? I have yet to talk to anyone who says you dont need a PC for new pipes. Besides a partner who swears to this day his PC caused his wreck...Is that even possible?
Besides from adding some cosmetic stuff the pipes are all i see for mods at this point. Im sure thats how everyone starts out, "I'm just going to add and ...."
Like always
Good Forum.

I bought an Internatrix Alarm...works great. Has all the features of the $400.00 alarms and cost half as much. With me everything is about how you treat me after i buy your crap, and these guys believe in keeping customers for life. Recommend them 115%. I had one wire out of place and received 20 emails and 1 phone call when it didnt work right. 20 emails because im a rock and even then the tech talked me thru it.

* Last updated by: ttate508 on 9/15/2009 @ 3:30 AM *

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Not gonna Hijack ur Thread, but can someone tell me what this powercommander thing is in VERY easy language? (Non-technical) ??

Thanks!

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Not gonna Hijack ur Thread, but can someone tell me what this powercommander thing is in VERY easy language? (Non-technical) ??

Acts like you changed to bigger carburetor jet. You add more time [electrically to the injector] to keep the magnet open longer for more gas = More Performance created with a bigger charge of fuel.
This is your standard, "fuel cutter," as some of the terms used for the powercommander.

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#1 If i get this now how will it effect my bike and will it be a hassle when i add my pipes?

No. You can think of both the pipe and PC complementing themselves. $$ is HP chasing.

#2 Why is it you need a pc when you just add slip ons?

You don't. People do not comprehend the bike is preset fuel wise and does not need a muffler at all to run. There is nothing downstream like your automotive 02 to sense other parameters. Since the bike is, "open loop" this designates a preset the engine follows.

#3 Do i need slip ons when i just want to change the sound of the bike and not the performance.

If you install slips without the PC, do you mean? No PC needed. The bike still has back pressure, has performance, has sound and you hurt nothing with a slip or a 4-in-1 that has a muffler. You simply free up the air flow. If you sat in the driveway and rapped the throttle as quick as you could with the stock exhaust, wasn't that instant red line if you are not careful? If the bike had the exhaust off, it would spin a lot sooner and quicker. All you did was free up a restriction to gain a preset HP rating.

I'm the furthest thing from a tech guy. From what i've heard and read this is the first mod i should make.

. You are not wrong. There is a start that you choose like a degree wheel is pick a degree and spread out either way or choose one direction and meet full circle. It just snowballs no matter what mod you start with. If we had a clean stock air cleaner element, I would remove the screen behind the air cleaner housing. Guys chase performance. I chase a smooth engine pulse so it does not buzz my toes, numb my arms, vibrate my mirrors. That one screen job is the first chase to a smooth move on a quick first mod.

I have yet to talk to anyone who says you dont need a PC for new pipes. Besides a partner who swears to this day his PC caused his wreck...Is that even possible?

I have yet to convince myself I need a PC from the mods I have done. I have no flies. That means a quicker air speed. Do I feel a lag? Yep. Is that lag the speed in which you get there is it follows the lean 17:1 cruse is my wave over that crest and now I need to hold on; ear we go is the wind chime change in your ear. The speed, is anyone looking? I can't see the mirrors. I'm tucked under the primer. Your bud wrecked because he has too much bike, not enough bike, not man enough to admit it was human error or the PC should have thrown him down the road the day it was inn stalllllllllllllllll'did it DID!

Blame game is this is a slow bike! I have cash waiting is wait for the factory to make the mod to move my assfactor. See, no PC, no crash is. D'uh!

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Ah, Thanks Hub!

Sounds like a upgrade thats just fun if you really are planning on giving it all on ur bike, and wanna push it even more :D

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Hi,Tate. Thanks for the compliment in your initial post. Being that you are new to the game, it might seem that I know a lot but there are definitely others on the forum that have vastly more knowledge than I do. Hub would be one of those guys, Kruz, Bad in Black, blue06, Rotty a.k.a 1badzx (if you can get him to tell you anything), slowninja, masszx14, dattaway, and many others. I think I've absorbed a lot from all of these people in the last couple years. Many of them seem to have viable opinions that conflict with the general consensus but if you read a lot of the posts, you will have a lot of info to consider before modding.

Matsuke wrote:

can someone tell me what this powercommander thing is

The Power Commander is a small box with a wire that connects to your main wiring harness (cube shaped brown plug connection above the motor, under the airbox, in front of the battery compartment). When the Power Commander is connected to the main wiring harness, the fuel and air ratios that are programmed into the bike are eliminated and the fuel/air ratios are now determined by the Power Commander.

These programs that determine f/a ratios are called maps. The Power Commander may be loaded with a map that suits your modifications much better than the stock map. For example, with flies removed and a sidewinder exhaust, you have much more exhaust flowing out of the bike than the stock pipes and flies in. If a lot more exhaust flows out, a lot more air also comes into the motor for combustion. You need to increase the amount of fuel to create the proper proportion with the increased air intake. A good map in your PC will achieve this for you.

The adjusting of the fuel amount to create a proper mixture with the air intake is called engine tuning. Through tuning, you optimize the power created by the engine and you protect your engine from severe damage. When a motor runs with too much air and not enough fuel, it is said to be running lean and this causes a great deal of heat to build up in the combustion chamber. I have seen pics where pistons actually had holes burned through them from running lean. When a motor runs with too much fuel and not enough air it is said to be running rich. Rich is not dangerous to the motor, but it is a waste of fuel and perhaps lowers performance some too. Rather than using maps in the PC to tune for your mods, the PC may also be used to load a custom map created by an engine tuner. In other words, if you have your motor tuned by a professional, you need to have a PC on there.

The older version of the Power Commander is known as the PC3, the new one is the PC5. Both are still available and both do about the same thing but the PC5 tunes in a bit greater detail. The PC5 also can have an Autotune module connected to it and the PC3 cannot. IMO, you might as well go with the PC5 because it isn't that much more expensive. The PC5 will work on '08 bikes to present year.

I have some pics of my PC install and I plan to post a "how to" one day soon. It really is not very complicated. Just two plugs and one ground wire.

To adress Tate's questions:
#1 Stock bike (for now) If i get this now how will it effect my bike and will it be a hassle when i add my pipes?
The PC is a great first mod, IMO. It will be needed for mods that you will do later on (it will help your pipe rather than being a hassle) but it also improves the performance of the stock bike. My basically stock 08 now has better control on and off the throttle (you may notice this a little choppy with stock mapping) and the annoying surge in power 3-3.5K rpm was smoothed out. This was entirely due to the Fuel Moto map loaded onto the PC. I would recommend you buy the PC from Fuel Moto or some other seller that you heard has a good map to load on your PC before shipping to you.

#2 Why is it you need a pc when you just add slip ons?
I always hear that this is not absolutely necessary because slipons do not increase flow enough to cause your motor to run lean. The stock mapping of the G2 ZX-14 is very rich and this automatically compensates to some degree for mods that effect intake. You might notice a better increase in performance from your slipons if you also run a PC, however. I would make sure that you can get a good PC map for any slipons you might choose.

#3 Do i need slip ons when i just want to change the sound of the bike and not the performance.
Slipons shouldn't change the performance a huge amount but they do drop a lot of weight off the bike and most will give you a more aggressive sound. I have seen dyno charts of bikes with slipons that show a nice increase in midrange. M4 Retrodrags are nice looking, super light and loud slipons. People who have run them seem to feel there is a nice performance increase too. I am uncertain if there is a really precise map available for them or not. I believe scottjkyl runs M4 retrodrags so you might ask him what his setup is if you like those pipes.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/15/2009 @ 11:47 AM *

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Wew, thanks Rook!!

I'll be opening a Thread in a bit just for me to get a vision of what upgrades can be actually be made to the bike,
and which ones are important to me. It's ALLLL about the preperation for when i get my bike!!!

Thx again

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welcome ttate youve come to the right place to get good helpful advice theres alot of knowledge between all these guys i know ive learned alot from them. this is my first fi bike so b4 i even took delivery of it i had my pipes and pc already being shipped(cant stand a quiet bike)but anyways if your interested in seeing and hearing the m4's Rook spoke of just follow this link down towards the middle there is a pic of my bike in the garage which is a video just click on it and you can hear it running. what ive learned in this forum is b4 you just start a thread go thru the different topics and threads on hear and 99% of the time youll find what your looking for like i said these guys are top notch and if its for the 14 its on here somewhere lol

http://www.zx14ninjaforums.com/messages.cfm?threadid=DD9EC1D5-1372-66AE-3BAA190F95284C81

* Last updated by: Hub on 9/15/2009 @ 5:50 PM *

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Matsuke wrote:

It's ALLLL about the preperation for when i get my bike!!!

That's the way to do it. Dig up all the research. When you buy, buy what you know you want to use and you will only have to buy one time. It is costly to buy and then upgrade. If you really get into it, selling off some old stuff is bound to happen though.

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Hehe Rook ,

SOLID PLAN : Gonna keep around 8.000 aside for the bike next year, ill be probably selling this YZF600 at the dealer for around 3-4k, buy me slip-on they can put on there while preparing the bike, putting on a darker wind-glass on, and we're done! *nods* oh and and and, a leather suit and new helmet. using Textile stuff now. I find im losing lots of grip in the corners, Leather on Leather = Win win

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^^I am sure you would have no prob putting on slipons yourself. If they are going to charge you for labor, I would take a look at doing the job myself. Once the fairings are off, all it is is a clamp at the end of each mid pipe down under the footpeg area. It's just one bolt. Then there are the screws in the brackets that support the exhaust. I think there is only one on each side. You know, things always are twice as complicated as they seem once you start doing the work, however. I doubt it is a problem to run slipons from 0 miles but another memeber, "Jesse1212", I think said he likes to break the bike in stock before doing any mods. That seems like a wise way to go.

The PC is also quite simple to install if you position it on the side of the ram air tube as recommended in the installation instructions. I put a huge effort into separating the main wiring harness plugs. It is in an very tight spot and the two halves stick together. Not a good job for someone with big hands.

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I would dump the stock pipes first just for the sake of weight and that alone will vastly improve the bikes handling. Next I would get rid of the stock tires if you are into the "twisties" if not keep the stockers and get a Power Commander. Ill assume you're still getting familiar with the bike so hold off on any gearing. Have you owned a Japanese or Euro sport bike before?

took me 10 min tops to change the slip-ons total job 2 bolts, 1 nut(under footbrake), and 2 clamps. on the m4's you dont need the nut i just put it back on so it dont get lost in case i may need it later for a different exhaust

what rook said bout the pc is true but also make sure you get the pc harness locked into the factory harness good. didnt have mine snapped in good and after a few weeks bike started cutting in and out as the harness was slipping in and out of the factory plug

* Last updated by: scottjkyl on 9/16/2009 @ 7:26 AM *

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Sounds good, i might consider the PC if i get pissed because some dude beats me on the highway speed-wise. lol

I'll look into the Slip-on stuff. Since it IS kind of expensive to buy (like 800,-??) . Gonna pick up my GF's bike this weekend, and check the store on some exhaust systems. Im kinda looking for a Slip-on System With a DEEP tone instead of the high Racing pitches (just something i wanna check out) .....

wait, let me look up some vid i saw a while ago of a Honda VTR 1000 (Amaaaazing bike if you ask me) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0_R8_GmL2k Listen at around ... 1:36 when he takes off. I like that sound man!! Deep sound is HOT!!!

I thought they were Laser Exhausts but i don't think so since most of em don't sound that Deep, maybe it also depends on the VTR bike, no idea.

Rook, are you aware of any exhaust systems with a Nice deep tone? RAAAAAAAAWRRR!!!

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matsuke you can get slip-ons for under $600 check ebay

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Yeah, was also considering that. First i have to figure out what slip-on system i am after. Since most slip-ons seem to be screamers. Im gonna go for the Dark Growls, if that's possible on the ZX14. lol

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Have not tried any aftermarket exhaust but M4 retros would be an easy choice for me if i was going with slipons. They are loud and they provide everything else you would want in an exhaust including looks. I'm not attuned to the nuances in tone among diff exhausts. They all sound a bit deeper on the 14 compared to liter bikes from sound clips I've heard. JMHO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0_R8_GmL2k

Insane what turbo did to that yammi.

sorry for running off topic on you, Tate.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/16/2009 @ 8:05 AM *

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Yeah sorry for the offtopic stuff.. BTW! Isnt it better to just swap exhausts instead of slipons? is this performance related? Because im just switching exhausts for the sounds, not really for the performance. Or can slipons ALSO help with ur bike's sound?

Thx.

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Nothing is off topic if the info flows. Speaking about flow. Crack open a door. Did the wind almost blow you off your feet? Think same crack at the door is the same speed. Crack open the door is you let the speed of air flow faster. Open the door WOT to the hinges, you have the same air speed moving in a less restrictive mode.

You want sound? Door my rear end with a muffler bearing or any kind of door to slow the sound. WOThrottle cares what the performance is. You are sitting on the world's fastest with stock quiet pipes. All you did was move a bit faster was to make more noise or crack the door open wider is hear the trees all bunched up, banging leave off each other is let the strongest stem win the root canal.

Slip or muff is the door jam is how loud did you move the air speed? Performance is preset to the world's fast test is test your ears for that sweet tone. If there is one.... I'm gonna fill it with a cream filling; make it sweet tear.

* Last updated by: Hub on 9/16/2009 @ 3:22 PM *

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Wait, what?

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lol- Any after market system is going to flow more than the stock system. I think Hub is telling you that you have the best overall performance if you stay stock on the exhaust. Generally, people will tell you that more flow is going to add to your midrange and/or top end and take away from your bottom. Personally, I don't believe most slipons are going to make a huge change anywhere in the powerband. Mostly they are for appearence, weight loss and sound which is what you want. I have asked the performance question about slipons and discussed at great length. The answer I got is that the bike will behave very much the same with some power increase in the midrange. As far as bottom end loss, no one really seems to notice that much so I imagine it is quite minimal.

Isnt it better to just swap exhausts instead of slipons?

Sounds like you are asking about changing the whole exhaust. Generally, full systems are for maximum hp. You will get this in the midrange and the 14 will continue to rise in hp to 10.5K rpm instead of 9.5K. There is some sacrifice of bottom end torque at partial throttle openings so street riding will be compromised somewhat. All that means is that you would be shifting down a bit more often. I'm going with a full system. It is lighter and more powerful than slipons, and it looks better than duals IMO and sounds good too. Just a couple hundred more than slipons.

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I said the same thing Matsuke when i read Hubs replay, "wait what?" Had to read it twice then was glad Rook did the translation! No offense Hub.
No prob with the hijacked thread thing...you asked good questions. So hijack on! I've Been riding since i was 12, dirt bikes mostly. When i went to the bike shop my choices were the busa or the ninja. I feel like I left the shop with the best bike they had, for me.
This 1400 is a beast waiting to be let out the cage, always respect the beast.

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I said the same thing Matsuke when i read Hubs replay, "wait what?" Had to read it twice then was glad Rook did the translation!

hahaha, im glad i'am not the only one that seriously got lost. I was suprised there actually WAS a translation available, thx Rook. Hahaha

By the way. I figured that the VTR1000 video i posted had a V-Twin engine which sounds heavier by itself. So it will be impossible to get that Dark sound out of a ZX14 most likely. OR indeed, i have to but a full system thing on, and see if it helps in any way..

I used this site to compare some exhaust's sounds : http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0410_pipe_clips/index.html (if anyone is interested in them) - I think most of them sound kind of the same in neutral 4000 rpm, but in the high end rpm's they get their own voices. I just thought the D&D sounded different, Devil and Yoshi in Neutral + high end rpms.

If anyone else is aware of any sites where u can actually compare slipon/full system sounds. HIT ME/US UP!!!

* Last updated by: Hub on 9/19/2009 @ 5:41 PM *

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Wow....did you listen to all of those? You didnt like the wolf or was it too loud to you?
found this clip of D&D for the zx14...
http://www.danddexhaust.com/catalog/2006/06/50114.htm
http://www.danddexhaust.com/catalog/2008/01/53114.htm silencer on this one
they said no other mods were done just the pipes.

* Last updated by: Hub on 9/19/2009 @ 5:43 PM *

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I just clicked the Dyno run ones, and listened for a few seconds. harr harr.

It's always kinda decieving though, since ur never sure the mic or Camera picks up the lower tones of the exhaust for example. Like if u look at some movies u think : WOW that exhaust has some nice deep tones, but he's just standing against a wall, or standing in his garage.

You didnt like the wolf or was it too loud to you?

I liked it, but i had a feeling it IS too loud, in the Netherlands we're allowed to push erm.. more than a certain amount of DB's, but i figure if its not OVER the damn top, its ok. Since their not all fags as cops....

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