Does anyone use anything other than 10w/40? I read on another forum that switching to 15w/50 gets rid of the cam chain tensioner noise has anyone on here experimented?

OK! I will try to confuse you less than Hub. I run 3.3 Qt. Mobil 1 Racing 4-T 10W-40 Synthetic mixed with 1 Qt. Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 Synthetic. Calculating compounded weight.....12.3W-42.3 I figure, for the heat here in So.Cal., that may be just the best brew. My engine runs smooth like a Jay Leno's MTT Y2K turbine.

* Last updated by: Steven14 on 7/28/2009 @ 10:59 PM *

OK Hub. Keep on smoking. I am not a chemist, but an engineer, and I love my brew. In fact, my 11 has been running on one for years, just on a little different formula. On a second thought, lets just smoke together.

All mineral oils are produced from the same basic petroleum feedstocks. Different oil viscosities will not separate or react negatively to each other because the base oil is molecularly the same. It's the different oil additive systems between brands that shouldn't be mixed - if you're concerned about the oil performing exactly how it was designed.

Oil additives include:
Anti-oxidants to prevent thickening at high operating temperatures.
Pour point depressants which lower the temperature of wax coagulation
alkaline materials to neutralize acids formed during combustion.
Rust and corrosion inhibitors.
Detergents to reduce sludge and varnish.
Dispersant additives to hold contaminants in suspension.
Extreme pressure additives to prevent metal to metal contact under high loads.
Viscosity index improvers in formulating muilt-grade (viscosity) oils.

The exact type and amount of these additives varies between brands and when mixed may not function as efficiently as desired. Different viscosities of the same brand oil will have different amounts of viscosity index improvers (polymers), but otherwise the additive systems will be the same.

"The exact type and amount of these additives varies between brands and when mixed may not function as efficiently as desired. Different viscosities of the same brand oil will have different amounts of viscosity index improvers (polymers), but otherwise the additive systems will be the same.

From the Chevron.com site:
"Can I mix different viscosity grades of motor oils?"
"Yes. It is always advisable to not mix motor oil brands, however, different viscosity grades of the same brand motor oil are compatible. Be aware that mixing viscosity grades will turn out a product that is different in viscosity than either what was originally in the engine or what was added."

From Shell.ca:
"If you mix viscosity grades such as a 5W30 low-viscosity oil and a 10W40 higher-viscosity oil, it is reasonable to expect that the resulting product will have viscosity characteristics which are thicker than the 5W30, but thinner than the 10W40. This change does not reflect incompatibility - it's simply a re-balancing of the viscosity characteristics. In all other ways, the product should work as expected. But there's absolutely no danger about incompatibility resulting from mixing engine oils," Miller says. "We've tested all of our grades and brands, and we haven't observed any problems."

From Mobil1.com:
"For our customers to choose a viscosity grade, we recommend they follow the engine manufacturer's recommendations as indicated in their owner's manual. There is no need to mix two Mobil 1 viscosity grades when one will do; however, we see no problem mixing different SAE grades of Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic series motor oils."

umm thanks I think

Hub, yes, opinions on this subject vary greatly. That's why I posted some from each perspective.
I go with the positive ones. In fact, there are few companies out there that specialize in "oil blending".
And regarding the method, I do not think you can find a better blender out there than the motorcycle engine with geared transmission, wet clutch, G-rotor oil pump, dual balancers, chain cam drive and crank spinning in excess of 11 K RPM, all at your service to mix your cocktail.

* Last updated by: Steven14 on 7/29/2009 @ 4:51 PM *

That's a very good point Steve14'' Isn't Motuol working on this principal with mixing[blending] some of the oil weights or am i confusing their ratings? ...............Bill

Exactly Bill. Glad you joined my bandwagon

* Last updated by: Steven14 on 7/29/2009 @ 10:56 PM *

Yep, and those old cardboard oil cans with metal lid, you had to punch in two holes, one to pour the 20w, the other for 50w. You needed one helluva big funnel to catch them both at the same time, so they meet-up again in the engine oil sump. Together again, at last

* Last updated by: Steven14 on 7/30/2009 @ 9:09 AM *

A 20-50 oil is not 20 wt and 50 wt blended together, it is a 20 to 50 wt range oil. Yes, I know you know this. But if you mix a 20-50 oil and a 10-40 oil, do they actually stay together, or will the oils seek their own level? Will the 20-50 oil end up on the bottom of the sump after the bike sits for a while?

I was always told by pro mechanics to never mix weights for that reason. I don't know if synthetics have different properties. I don't know what kind of reaction you'd get when that glob of heavier weight oil hit the pump. Probably none, but are the benefits worth the risk?

Steven14
"Calculating compounded weight.....12.3W-42.3"
Is that really that much better than 10-40 ?

" I run 3.3 Qt. Mobil 1 Racing 4-T 10W-40 Synthetic mixed with 1 Qt. Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 "
I thought racing type oils break down faster, more protection and shorter life? Why would you use an oil designed for an air cooled twin?

I'm not challenging your choices. If it works for you, cool. Just wondering why those choices.

I know my twin turbo 6 cyl. will destroy a lower grade oil faster than godzilla rips through Tokyo. The dealership changed the oil right before I bought it, and that lasted about 5 weeks and less than 1000 miles. It ran off the dipstick faster than I could read it. I flushed the motor, and replaced with Mobil 1 10-40. That lasted about 2 months and less than 2000 miles. Turned to the color and consistancy of black coffee. Did some research and tried Amsoil 10-40. Lasted months! I use Amsoil in everything now. I had to take my car in for some repair, and my mechanic of 25 years got some oil on his hand. He spent about 30 seconds trying to wipe it off his hand with no success. "What kind of nuclear waste you got in this thing?!" After I told him it was Amsoil with about 2000 miles on it, he signed up as a dealer. He now uses it in his personal vehicles.

Why use multi viscosity oil? Because the lower vis is available immediately on start up. Heat reduces viscosity, so when the engine gets good and hot the higher vis is there to provive as much friction relief as the lower did at start up. Although traditionally 50W is for higher mileage engines, you can't argue with what works.
Don't dis Steven for telling you about something that works for him. That's like if he says the chicken tastes good to him you can't tell him no it doesn't tast good because you know there is too much salt in the recipe. That's the difference between fact and opinion. (fact-he likes it, opinion- he shouldn't like it.)
alg8er sez Amsoil has served him very well. (Ignore the fact that oil for cars and bikes are significantly different.)Someone will probaably write and say he's wrong its no good. Again fact and opinion.
Despite years of studying engineering I can still only tell you what calculates as being correct to me. But it will only be the truth if I know everything there is to know about the subject. That will never happen becausr there are an infinite number of variables. We try to include as many of the variables (factors) as possible but still can only come to a practical usable solution by limiting infinity. We always have to set the parameters of acceptable variation.
You can't debate opinions. And you'll certainly never come to any valid conclusions.
Somewhere there's a thread with a bunch of oil sample analyses tracking the qualities of a few brands. These would be the facts that are worth discussion.

* Last updated by: Sharkey on 8/12/2009 @ 9:34 PM *

I hope you (or Steven)didn't think I was dissing Steven. I was asking to try to gain more knowledge. Amsoil has car and motorcycle versions of it's oil. In fact it has 20-50 v-twin air cooled, and 10-40 4 cyl. I agree that everyone has different experiences, and a lot has to do with when an oil was tried. Manufacturers change formulas constantly. Mobil 1 may be the best oil on the market today, but it would take a lot to get me to try it again.

alg8er, I find your comments completely valid. I was just refering to the inevitable voice of contrary opinion.
The original question posed by the thread was about cam chain noise. It was a request for experience and opinion.
I just fell into the endless rhetoric and debate over which oil is best. I guess my trying to decide which syn oil to use after my breakin has gotten to me. Sorry if I was a jerk.

You weren't a jerk at all. I didn't mean to jack the thread. However, my car engine, as all of that model, has a lot of lifter clatter. A very similar problem as I feel it has to do with sheer resistance, and cling factor. Both of which Amsoil excells in. Here's a link to a Blackstone oil analysis of Mobil1 vs Amsoil. Yes, it's in a cadillac, but motors are motors, kind of.
I really wish Steven would answer my questions.

http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/TestResults/CTS-V%20AMSOIL%20UOA.htm

Alg8er, the Mobil1 V-twin 20W50 is designed for air cooled V-twins, which actually can run hotter spot temperatures than water cooled high performance 4 cylinder engines. My logic is that since I live here in Socal. and my bike can see temperatures in excess of 100 F (even in winter), it can be only beneficial to add some of the heavier oil in my brew,
which should provide little extra protection, mostly for the transmission. As mentioned before, opinions about blending oils wary greatly. I am of the opinion that a same brand of oils of the same product line are perfectly mixable between each other, regardless of their specific viscosity ratio.

https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil1_Racing_4T_10W-40.aspx
https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_V-Twin_20W-50.aspx

* Last updated by: Steven14 on 8/14/2009 @ 11:29 PM *

Actually, I have browsed and read quite a lot throughout Bob's website about a year ago. There is some good stuff there, however, in the end it somehow seems he is on Shell's payroll

from the "bob" site;
"Remember all those additive companies selling their miracle oil ? For some of them, they were doing nothing more than adding a barrier additive to your existing oil. Problem there, too much of a good thing can cause it to overload the blend that the oil company started with, so a lot of times the detergents in the oil are not able to do their job and fight acids produced by the engine, there fore the oil will oxidize faster and start the process of breakdown and extended oil drains are out of the question. not to mention engine warr issues again. Guess what a good race oil has... higher levels of antiwear and less detergents. Since they don't run race oils over the road, their not worried about oil drains. They change it constantly."

That said, I'm sure it's a balancing act for oil companies to try to fill all needs. Impossible, so a blend makes sense as long as oil blends together and stays together. After all my crap..............

conneaut14; I don't have any cam chain noise either. Unless you mean the split second after startup, and I think we all have that.

I have been using Amsoil synthetic motorcycle oil. Seems to work well in my old air cooled and highly modified Italian racing motors, I am expecting the liquid cooled ZX 14 motor will be easier on the oil. Amsoil just recently released a revised oil manufactur product comparison with all kinds of testing results, they call it their 2009 white paper, which you can find to download from this link.....

ttps://www.amsoil.com/products/streetbikes/WhitePaper.aspx
Paul

* Last updated by: laverda1200 on 9/11/2009 @ 3:50 PM *

Well.................Here I go--------Just out of curiosity(naturally).........I hear this"this works better".What exactly? "works better?".Anyone's engines' blown or failed cause they used "Amsoil", or "Mobil 1", or "Motul", or...........How in the world could you practically judge whether one brand is working "better" than another?I'm using Full Syn,10/40 Kawachem.My bike runs great,oil looks fine when drained-Deep Brown.Viscosity "appears"normal(for used oil).Engine makes no unusual noises-So................What exactly are ya'll trying to conclude here?(honestly,I'm not being a smart-azz-just curious).If something is working-how in the world could I figure out if it wasn't working as it should,and at it full potential?I mean-Jo Blo runs champion spark plugs.I'm runnin a Japanese brand-okay.Both bikes set up exactly the same.BOTH perform to their top.Their "top" is "equal".Same kick,same mileage,same starting ability.Both plugs look "the same" when removed and checked(bike mileage is equal)(oil used is the same in both bikes)(both bikes tuned the same).Is one "better" than the other?And if so, how? Just a thought here.And getting to the original question-I don't know if oil viscosity would or would not stop cam chain rattle on startup.It may however PROLONG the rattle IF it was TOO THICK.And amazingly!!!!!!!!!!!!!HUB!!!!!!!!!!!!!No cam chain rattle?THAT'S AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL (are these BST wheels on this bike?)

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/11/2009 @ 9:21 PM *

blue07; I kind of took this thread off track. All anybody can do is tell their experiences. Obviously everyone will have differing opinions based on their's. Different riding styles, habits, environment, mileage, etc... I don't think anyone said an oil "didn't work", but rather didn't work as well as another. I said I had a bad experience with my car and Mobil1, and it would take a lot for me to switch back. Others think Mobil1 is the best they've found. Why the difference? Who knows.

i run castrol syntec 5w50 in my '06 fawteene. my camchain raises hell for 1-3 seconds hot or cold. i am going with the ape manual setup when i bring it into the house this winter around the middle of november. what brand and weight of oil do most zx14ers run? i don't drag race but i do wring her out every thim she leaves the driveway. with a little over 10,000 miles i also plan to
1. clean bmc air filter
2. change brake fluid
3. change fork oil
4. check valve adjustment
5. syncronize throttle bidies
has anyone used mercury carb sticks to sync their throttle bodies?
my bike seems to fire on 1 or 2 cylinders when the throttle just begins to twist which makes me think they're not all beginning to open at the same time. has anyone else noticed this and if so, did a throttle body sync fix it?
thanks for any help...

I've not tried to sync my thottlebodies-I let my Mech do that.Oil-I'm running Royal Purple just now-so far-shifting is smooth at any speed,and no engine noise other than the normal stuff.Used the 10/40w full syn made for automotive applications.The guy at RP said it would do fine with wet clutches and motorcycle engines.HE DID NOT try to get me to buy anything-nor did he say"you NEED the "motorcycle" blend".So I'm goin with this for now.Always used Kawachem(motul) full syn,10/40 before-no problems with that either.("MAYBE" she's just a bit more quiet with this Royal Purple-hard to say)....All the checks I've done so far(I've got 27,950+ miles)have come up within spec-valves,throttlebodies.I didn't have my valves checked until 24,000 miles-every one was virtually perfect in their factory spec.at 24,000 miles.Same with the throttlebodies.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 10/16/2009 @ 10:53 PM *

I use FUCHS full synthetic 10W50, I think. So says my Dyno man. No oil is going to stop the cam chain clatter, unless you put sludge in! Strangely enough, he says Castrol causes a varnish in the motor. Anyone on this?

* Last updated by: harleyzx1400 on 10/19/2009 @ 8:33 AM *