Nah....Hub should be the forum moderator.Seriously.He should.I'd vote for him.Why not?There won't be any more problem from my end.This has been a real waste.My part in it.I'm probably upset about other things going on...This thing here...whatever...it doesn't matter really.Who 'wins' or 'loses'....Approval on some website...defending...justifying...waste of time.Hub is Hub..Motero's Motero...and so on.Everyone's genuine...for real...and 'provable'.

Hub 'wins'...I don't care.Ruining threads and messing with people isn't what I want to be doing here...never did.This thing that's been going on....it's nothing like the real person I am....it's an ugly no win thing.I was told by some here...'you can't win...ignore him'....continuing on with any of this only makes me feel bad.I didn't sign on here to feel bad...or have others feel bad.I'm out of this deal here.I won't be saying anything else.I know some here are relieved with that.That's the whole point...to be able to be here and feel good about it.This doesn't make me feel good...and it's a drag on others.I'll leave the bike maintenance to other guys here....the advice....the care and feeding of our 14's.I can't add anything to what experts know.No way.Joe-A...that'd be me....just a guy with a 14R that runs great and is a joy to have.Big deal...just another motorcycle.I got away from that....and got caught up in something totally against everything I feel.I'm done with 'tit-for tat'....responding...cursing at others.Trying to play 'my deals better than your deal"...knowledgewise,attitude wise.All of it.So I guess..if that mans...he wins...okay...he wins.All this stuff does is add garbage into my life...into my rides...everything.It stops here...now.Have a great day fellas...ride safe out there....watch those left turners.

WTB forum moderators... :)

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I did my 2nd oil change at 2500 miles with Golden Spectro 10w-40 full synthetic. I have about 1000 miles since that oil change. I have noticed that if I'm rolling in 3rd or 4th gear and go to wide open throttle the bike doesn't pull very hard at first. It feels like the clutch isn't grabbing all the way at first. I know this is like an age old debate over synthetic oil in wet clutches. I was just wondering if anyone else has noticed this when using synthetic. More importantly can I just switch back to non synthetic oil without any issues ?

I have five motorcycles currently in the garage and all have been run on synthetic since the 2000 mile break in period was over. Zero clutch slippage issues ever.

I would be very surprised to hear you are having clutch slippage on a 14R. The clutches on these things are supposedly near bomb proof. If the clutch pack and springs are healthy, and they should be on a new bike, I don't see synthetic causing any issues, especially with a JASO MA approved motorcycle oil. Only problems I've ever heard of oil related, were when guys went cheap and bought the automotive oils with the energy conserving seal. These oils are typically 0W30 to 10W30 viscosity, loaded with molybdenum based friction modifiers and will impregnate the clutch plates and start the clutch slipping. At that point the only real cure is to replace the plates and start over with a JASO MA oil. As far as I know, there are no 10W40 oils in existence that have the energy conserving seal and this includes full synthetics.

Does the engine rev wildly when the "slipping" begins but the speedometer is showing a very slow rate of change? If I suspect clutch slip or wheel spin, since the symptoms are identical, I watch the tach and speedo and see if they move proportionate to one another. If that tach really takes off but the speedo lags way behind then something is definitley slipping.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 6/19/2012 @ 1:00 PM *

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EDIT
This post all the way through page 5 of this thread chronicle my investigation of a slipping clutch problem that was entirely due to the use of a lever with a worn out bushing. I still use Rotella synthetic and the clutch is now holding just fine. Sorry about going off topic on this but if you have a slipping clutch and you are certain the clutch lever is good, you can just skip to page 5 for any new info about synthetic oil possibly causing clutch slippage. In my experience, JASO MA approved synthetic oil isn't a factor in clutch problems.
My 08 is doing it. I've been using Rotella T6 Synthetic for 3-4 years. I've never noticed the clutch slipping in the past but this year after taking the bike out of storage i have noticed two things.

When I accelerate hard, the rpm suddenly jumps up but the acceleration seems to get weaker. I immediately roll off the throttle when this happens because it feels just like the tire is slipping...but it is not the tire, it's the clutch. I kept my eye on the tach and speedo today and while accelerating, I saw the tach leap about 500 rpm while the speedo didn't react at all.

The other thing I noticed is that the bike feels like it lacks a little power when I release the clutch lever as if the clutch lever was not fully released.

Neither of these situations seem to happen with regularity. I tested the bike on the way home today and it seemed to be fine. This was just one hour after I was experiencing the slip symptoms.

I think I will just wait it out like Hub suggested earlier in this thread. Maybe the synthetic oil needs a little work out after sitting in the bike all winter.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/27/2014 @ 10:39 AM *

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How many miles on this clutch pack? Springs could be letting go.

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That was my first thought but wouldn't the problem be constant? Seems like it just started out of nowhere. Also seems like it might have went away all the sudden / above comments (I'm hoping). I also think I may have experienced this last Spring but it cleared up on its own. I'm hoping this is just a coming out of storage thing.

I have 43,300 miles on the stock clutch, springs and all, never cracked that case yet. You think it is more probable that I need to replace the clutch?

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Give it 500 miles. If it stays constant or gets worse you're looking at new frictions, springs, and possibly new steels.

Not a bank breaker, any of it. And you have the skill to do the work.

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haha yes and There's not much I like better than an excuse to put in aftermarket parts. I sort of hope in a twisted way that there is some clutch trouble because I'll be ordering new high performance clutch parts!!

but we'll try 'er out for a couple weeks and see if she stops the slipping. Maybe all that sitting over winter let the synthetic soak into the fiber plates??? Thanks, Ill keep everyone informed.

In the meantime, worse case scenario, the clutch is slipping and it gets worse....will riding the bike 500 miles with a slippy clutch cause any damage to anything else ?

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...will riding the bike 500 miles with a slippy clutch cause any damage to anything else?

1. As stated, try riding it out.
2. Stick with OE or you get what you pay for.
3. Hi Pea Forum Ants is just that. A one hit wonder. Good for a weekend's battle = Toss at end of race.
4. Drop sump pan (Rook?) I wear down parts, they have to be somewhere, right?
5. Gray matter. I settle out and coat the sump cover. So between the steels and fibers, we clean a slip problem.
6. Is it happening throughout its life? Yes. It begins to cake on the sump, but still, you are at what stage of wear?

I'd spin the oil cap off. Shoot a picture and there are enough eyes to see if that pack is down and sinking in.
I'd pull the clutch lever in with a bungee and hold it there. I'd get a scribe, flat blade, something small enough to see where if you pushed the friction away from the pressure plate, forced the friction in, shoot that gap.
I'd go out and pull my plug, match the difference and yes pull it down, not it's just the oil.

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And..i'm trying to buy an Eric Clapton guitar...sheesh

Grn, Stay away from the Fender Lame sensors or better known as Lace Sensors ...... LOL !

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Are we talking GEE-tars now? I've been wanting to start playing again. Think I'd go flamenco or classic this time. I used to play all thay scarey hair band crap in the 80's ....never even thought about trying to copy Joe Satriani though.

4. Drop sump pan (Rook?) I wear down parts, they have to be somewhere, right?

Yes, if you recall I'm the one with the silvery flakes in the oil. That seems to have reduced a lot over the past couple oil changes, just being more careful with the clutch between gears and def NO waiting 4-5 seconds "thinking what do I do now" before jamming it into gear--- if I should miss a gear.

Thanks for the tips, Hub. Your a step ot two ahead of me. Looks like you agree to ride it a while to see if it just goes away. If not, then we will be tearing down the bottom end for clutch inspection as well as the top end for valve clearance inspection. The 14 might be going under for double surgery.

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I race with full synthetic. My clutches won't slip during full engagement when they are within service limits. Hub has it on dropping the pan. I do this every 2nd clutch pack, although lately I have abandoned changing the entire pack out. I pull the pack apart and only discard the driven plates that are out of spec and the frictions that are beyond service limit. If the pack is inspected after every race it is possible to catch a single fiber that is about to let go and cause damage do its neighbors. If it starts slipping it will put extra load on its buddies = more slippage. I think it'd be fair to say that I am by far the HARDEST on clutches on this site. I have installed 3 complete sets and 7 or 8 OEM individual driven and frictions. So including my OEM pack I have burned through 4 and a half sets of clutches in less than a year and a half.

Still slipping.

So including my OEM pack I have burned through 4 and a half sets of clutches in less than a year and a half.

You're right. You are King Clutch around here. LOL

Weird, last thing I did before putting the bike away was a top speed run. WOT 3,4,5,6 gears. No slippage there. Then I was doing low power wheelies, no clutch but full decel to hard accelleration WOT in 1st gear. No slippage there either. Also did one drag race from a stop light doing a wheelie but I'm not in the habit of doing drag racing launches. Fast starts from idle once in a while is about as far as I go. All this at the end of last season and the clutch didn't slip so why now?

It slips under semi-agressive 1/3 throttle in 3rd gear and maybe even 4th? This leads me to believe it is something about the storage.

I wonder what caused this? I am pretty sure the same thing happened to my Vulcan before I sold it.

I know the clutch wears from making it slip as when doing a drag launch but that is not something I do. Does harsh accelleration and decelleration cause clutch wear? I do that a fair amount. Also I always pul the lever all the way in between shifts. I do plenty of down shifts even though it is usually not necessary on the street.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/14/2014 @ 1:45 PM *

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Pulling the lever in between shifts contributes to clutch wear. Pull your clutches and check to see that they are within service limits.

Mav, how many runs do you get out of a new clutch pack?

Rook, I hardly use the clutch on upshifts unless I'm in slow traffic/ stop and go type riding. Do you not like or not trust your quickshifter?

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Pulling the lever in between shifts contributes to clutch wear. Pull your clutches and check to see that they are within service limits.

Thanks, mav. Easier on gearbox harder on the clutch, I suppose. Give me a couple of weeks and if it hasn't cleared itself up, I will put it up and get the cover off. Perfect time to install an Evo shift star at the same time.

Rook, I hardly use the clutch on upshifts unless I'm in slow traffic/ stop and go type riding. Do you not like or not trust your quickshifter?

Yes, I remember the recent thread. I like the quickshifter a lot but I have a general mistrust of clutchless shifting without some sort of shifter device to assist. I have never done clutchless shifting because it seems like it cannot possibly be smoother than using the clutch where you can modulate the throttle and the clutch together (at least that is how I have always done it). The quickshifter is fast but you feel a brief jerk between shifts because as soon as the shift is complete, the throttle is right there, open. It's an exciting feeling but not not seemlessly smooth like the brief overlapping of clutch and throttle action. I guess you could roll off the throttle to use the QS. I have done that out of a habit a few times even at higher rpm. It still works and it doesn't feel like anything is getting abused. In fact maybe the off/on throttle technique with the quickshifter feels just about as smooth as using the clutch. I don't normally use it that way......because I can do the same thing WITH the clutch.

As I mentioned before. I am pretty sure this same problem developed with my Vulcan 800. I never rode that thing hard but I used the clutch for ordinary street riding just like I do the 14.

I'll report back in about a week and let you guys know if anything has changed. After I get 500 miles on it, if it's still doing the same thing, I'll pull it and measure it. Perhaps n themeastime, I'll look at the plates through the oil hole like Hub suggested. I'll post a pic.

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I am pretty sure this same problem developed with my Vulcan 800. I never rode that thing hard but I used the clutch for ordinary street riding just like I do the 14.

Rookiesteer,

The same problem happened to the Vulcan? You mean you started out with syn in the 800, never had a problem but down the road it started to slip? Until you explain it in more detail, no, I never used syn in the 800. I just had a low miler clutch problem with the 800 and I bought it brand new. OR, I felt it begin to slip when I began using syn.

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The Vulcan was on dino oil the whole time. My father who gave me the bike used car oil in it and I doubt if he knows about the JASO approval emblem. I doubt he put more than 6000 miles on it. Probably changed oil every 3000 miles. IDK how many miles were on the bike when it started slipping, prolly 20,000 or less. I noticed the problem after I rode it for one summer. It was my only transportation so I used it a lot. I used Kawasaki oil.

Maybe my dad clutches like I do. He's the one that taught me. He might have had a lot of clutch wear by the time he handed it off to me and never known it. He rides his bikes like they were made of glass so I doubt he would know about a clutch slipping until it was severe.

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Shortshifter here... Rook, is it the syn or do we drop the sump. Is it a shifting habit that killed the clutch in both bikes? We addressed that awhile back, now Mav brought it up? Hag's got the munchies for donuts, pizza, beer, WOTs in tool drawer #2?

For 200 dollars, Alex, I'll take, I want to sign off with a few cap letters.

There's popcorn here too. I think we are coming for you. Sniff-sniff, Rook? Were you rolling in the squidsteershit like some dog who's first trip to a park? I think this is an emergency. Call 119.

Yes, it finally happened.
WOT happened?
The Vulcan can can.
This is 119, you might mean 800
You mean toe free?
No, you told doled out another pack.
I think I'm getting bent over and being packed myself.
Would you consider rehab?
I'd have to...
... Yes you would. Sign right here.
NOLTT... I forgedis. Is there free cough fee or am I bent over enough I'm going to pay for a few gaskets and a pack of a pack?
Oh, you are paying thru the nose, wrong end.

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Maybe my dad clutches like I do. He's the one that taught me.

I can see the double shifting of a car/truck, but a bike's trans does not have huge gears but smaller and more of them. No fault to dad or you. Plus, they shift faster than snot. Old F1 car type transmissions share the design. Another old bike design that has not changed much are the clutch pack, baskets, and release mechanisms.

What is seamless is the engine to trans to sprockets. What makes it all happen is that smooth is the clutch and their 2 spin ratios. Fibers are locked to the crank spin. Steels stop with the back wheel.

1. Every time I spin up the rpms to shift, I feed plates at 2 different speeds.
2. If I shifted as fast as I could, do not add throttle, but only shift on lift, I lock both plates without much spin if none at all. If I stop adding throttle spin I stop a wearing down of plate, this causing added friction that does absolutely nothing but wears parts out faster. The 800 and 14 are 2 examples.
3. Every time I am on my bike, I have to break my habit, I might as well wear this pack out and practice-practice-This should be a wake up call, wake me up from this nightmare someone butchered the bulletproof.

Are we on the same page? Drop the sump. New exhaust gaskets. New sump gasket or take your chances. New OEM no matter WOT. Diddleshit squidance with aftermarket shit or you get what you pay for. Did you listen to turtle back then? No. Will you keep eating plate? If you didn't have a new year's resolution, you've got one now.

Signed,

1 shifty nifty N a 2 shifty nifty 3 shiftease nif sneezzzzzzzzz 4 what happened to my right hand 5 I think it was just slapped by a special wand.

* Last updated by: Hub on 4/14/2014 @ 10:48 PM *

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Hey Rook, I want one of them Evo shift stars. I ran one in the ole busa and I absolutely loved how smooth it made the shifts, I'm betting the shifts with one of them in and a quickshifter are freakin transparent. Ya gotta keep us informed and let us know how you like it if you go that route sir! I wanna run one in Priscilla. As fer the slippin, well, Hub has it! :)))

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I have read all the posts on full synthetic oil, I bought kawasaki full synthetic oil for next oil change after reading this thread I'm being to think I'm going to do a oil change with kawasaki regular 10w-40 oil at 2000 miles right now I have 1800 miles wait until till the bike has over 2500 miles on it,then do the full synthetic oil change because of any chance of a clutch issues..if anybody has a commit on what I have posted please do so..
Thanks MRZX

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Get the brocks clutch mod in there - that'll stiffen things up..... soon you'll have forearms like popeye...