I particularly liked this comment:

I assume that by now, Harley can make a bike that will idle, so I'm confused as to why every guy on a Harley must constantly rev his bike at a stop light. Then I realized....they're trying to tell the rest of the world that they're cool, and the rest of us are'nt. But all they're really telling anyone is .."I'm a fat midddle-aged white guy who BOUGHT into cool with a subprime loan from HD credit. Except "cool" isnt cool anymore where HD is concerned, because everybody (over 50) has one. HD sold out to the yuppies 20 years ago, and now the chickens (more like old buzzards) have come home to roost.

Harley Davidson is being accused of violating the Securities and Exchange act of 1934. It seems the management of HD, having enjoyed a 4 year run of artificially inflated motorcycle prices, resorted to inside information and sold off large portions of their stock while still telling the public that they were making money. Actually, Harley was bloated and continues to be bloated with inventory that just isn't moving.

Who couldn't see this coming? If you don't want to pay the 20% markup to buy a Harley that people in the past 3 years have paid, then buy now. Or better yet, wait a little longer and the floundering HD will most likely begin slashing prices. During the second quarter, HD slashed production by a whopping 10,000 motorcycles. Dealer inventories are packed and people aren't buying.

HD continued to tell the public that their projected earnings were on the rise while HDs officers and directors sold $92 million of their own shares. The chief executive and chairman sold $50 million of their own stock during this period as well.

Basically, it is alleged that Harley knew business was on declining and yet they continued to tell shareholders that business was on the rise. HD execs sold their stock during this period because they didn't want to lose their investment. Harley Davidson screwed over their shareholders. Many of the same people who bought their beloved Harleys.

In retrospect, it was only a matter of time before the market was absolutely flooded with Harleys. People kept buying them at greatly inflated prices claiming they would hold their resale value. Harleys weren't only a fun toy, they were an investment. That's exactly how HD wanted it to play out. From a marketing standpoint, it was brilliant. Keep supply just short of demand and you can charge a premium. It creates an atmosphere of exclusivity, even when no exclusivity truly exists. People scramble to obtain the elusive and try harder and pay more because it appears to be elusive. Get it while you can, before the price goes up.

My tone may sound like I'm against Harley Davidson. In a way, I am. I hate their marketing model. Motorcycle enthusiasts should be infurated that they were being abused and raked over the coals by HD. But, people can do as they wish with their money. And if they wish to buy a Harley, pay 20% over HDs established retail prices, which are about 100% over their real market value in my opinion, then more power to them. No really. Good for you for buying what you want and having the means to do it. I buy things that don't make sense too. Take Vodka for instance. Stoli's Gold is the stuff. Are there other cheaper vodkas out there that will do the job, sure, but I want what I want. What I am mad about is HD screwing everybody over just to turn a larger profit. It's not about the motorcycle to them. It's not about the passion of riding. It's about cash. Greed makes things ugly. People that are willing to screw other people over to make that extra dollar are substandard units in my book.

I honestly hope you like your Harely, because I honestly don't think it's value is going to hold. But then, it's not about the money or the investment, it's about the ride... right?

Read about the lawsuit here. http://www.lerachlaw.com/lcsr-cgi-bin/mil?case=harleydavidson&templ=case-pr.html

“Traditionally, Harley-Davidson had a very loyal consumer,” says Anthony Gikas, senior research analyst at Piper Jaffray. “But those riders lost interest in the brand because everyone has a Harley bike. It’s not a club anymore.”

That's what I been saying for years, what's so cool about havin the same bike as every Tom, Dick and Harry on the block? Check out Cycle Trader Magazine, page after page after page of folks tryin to unload Harley's. I think the Harley epic was just a sad sideshow to the bubble era and cheap zero down financing. Those days are gone for good and so is Harley. Good riddance!

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 6/19/2009 @ 8:31 AM *

I had an 82 Fat Boy, and by the time I replaced all the shit that went wrong with the bike, other than the frame, it was a new bike... and I liked it for the cruiser that it was... bigger engine, dual plugged, dual spark, etc, but dumped it. Later got a Suzu 109 and that would, on any day, smack Harleys... but it was still a bike to 'enjoy' putting around. For me, 'enjoying' riding is different that being excited by riding, and the 14 has 'excietment'.

Harley took foooorever to begin to use some tech on their bike, as they were being surpassed by about everyone else. More bad US business decisions. They 'had' a good name, for the longest US manuf, but not really quality production, in my opinion.

When I was living in Costa Rica I was going to buy a bike, and all bikes there have a heavy duty import tax. I looked at the Triumph Rocket and it was 24K. The M-109 was 24K. Crazy.

I saw a used, 11 year old Harley with 11K miles, and the guy wanted 10K for it.. Ugly bike. Primative looking, technology that was decades old, in many ways. That is when I flew back to the US and bought the M109. That bike lasted about 7 months in favor, until the dealership had a Haya and 14 to test ride... :)

Excitement

* Last updated by: JDC on 6/19/2009 @ 2:49 PM *

With the way the economy is, I would rather they didn't go under. It is an american business with american employees. I could care less what other people do with their money. I've owned HD in the past and just like the beemer guys, I consider myself a little wiser nowadays.

Harley ain't going under ..they make more money from apparel then from all the bike sales anyways..

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 6/19/2009 @ 8:18 PM *

I have never owned a Harley, never considered to buy one. Having said that, I am for free enterprise, free market, freedom of choice. If others like Harley's, it's their choice. Honestly, I do like to see others enjoy and riding whatever the choose to. It would be sad to see Harley go under. Now again, having said that, I smell a plot here. The consumers have been taken for a ride, falling to clever marketing schemes that were bound to backfire. In the end, If in the end it really goes under, we shall not feel sorry for the people who managed the company, we shall just feel sorry for loss of tradition, freedom of choice, expression and most of all, loss of jobs for those whose livelihood depended on it.

* Last updated by: Steven14 on 6/20/2009 @ 3:29 PM *

This is just capitalism. If consumers are willing to shell out the dough for these overpriced dinosaurs, then why wouldn't HD or any other company just sit back and rake in the profits?

Harley-Davidson is in trouble with more than finances if it can't pick up some "new" blood because us old farts who buy Harleys are slowly fading into the sunset.

"I had an 82 Fat Boy, and by the time I replaced all the shit that went wrong with the bike, other than the frame, it was a new bike..."

That's either a typo or you don't know what you're talking about. The Fatboy model didn't come out until 1990, and it was first seen in the movie "Terminator"

The Fatboy model didn't come out until 1990, and it was first seen in the movie "Terminator"

First time I PDI'd the bike and took it for a ride = I was Sold ever since! Cried when that kid did not want to fatboy the front and rear with those solids. He had the parts and they handle well, I am sorry but did data slip out?

* Last updated by: Hub on 6/20/2009 @ 10:10 AM *

I had just purchased a new BMW R1150RT and feeling happy with myself. I knew a lot of guys with Harleys, mostly outlaw types. The real thing.) I asked a sport biking friend what he thought a Harley guy would do if someone gave him a BMW. His answer...... "Look for something to fix!"
Despite having friends with Harleys I always had a resistance to having one myself. Ever the romantic independent on the leading edge of Cool I was happy with my KZ1000 I had built up from scratch. Only one of my Harley buddies could keep up with me and that was due to the size of his Huevos. He'd always tell me not to park my Jap Crap too close to his heap.

I could mark the good old days as the era before Jay Leno got a Harley and everyone including women decided smoking cigars was cool. Alas...I was no longer on that leading edge. But that type of cool was naught but a mirrage seen and sought by those in need of cool. Traditionally Harley guys were not people with money. It was usually a couple of good drug deals, or one season growing, and Yea...They had a Harley. It wasn't washed very often and dripped oil incessantly, a lot of which ended up on their leathers. Windscreens and helmets, were for wussies only. We drank a lot in those days and knowing how to ride drunk was prerequesite.

I was visiting the town of Sonoma one time. Out in the public park, In two different places I saw this, were bums, passed out under trees. Close inspection found clothes not that dirty, and bottles of Cabernet or Zinfandel nearby. Ahahh! Weekend winos. Begin an era of people seeking alter egos. The beginning of the weekend Harley riding outlaw bikers developed. But like the wino who couldn't drink Muscatel or other sweet wine, they had to upgrade a little.
You could have a brand new bike and just say you'd been riding them for years. It was acceptable to wash your bike. And you could take off your leathers at the end of the day and save them for next weekend. What I saw was people seeking their joys with hard guy alter egos. It didn't take long before the whole scene became a joke. (To me anyway.)
I predicted that by the mid '90's t5here would be a flood of cheap Harleys on the market. From all the posers who got tired of big heavy, gutless, noisy bikes with tons of chrome to polish, would come many "good deals." I was amazed that Harley just kept selling more bikes. My predictions fell flat. I'm still scratching my head. How can there be so many of these Harley clones on the road. All emulating what started out as an expression of freedom and independence.
That has been one hell of a marketing scheme. But I still say, the chickens will have to come home to roost someday.

I have to admit I like to bump my en gine at stoplights so I can amuse myself with the rich sound of my 14 with twim Muzzys. But I swear, I'm not crying..."Hay look at me."

i had an 04 nighttrain, loved the bike had straight pipes on it that sounded second to none.
it never had any issues until i put it dwon giong into a curve. seems that it isnt a sportbike and cant lean that far over lol. the one thing i have noticed about 85% of the guys at shows,rallie,etc is that they all want to spend 3500$
for the screamin eagle bore kits. that just gets me pay that much for 20-30 horses and you still arent fast lol.
not to mention the ole addage "if its not a harley it aint a bike" you tell me that when i blow by you at 200.....
as soon as i get a spedohealer anyway. but never the less i still like some of them. there not bad bikes just over priced imho.

Buying a Harley is like investing in the stock market. A record number of fat boys are going to be greatly depressed.

* Last updated by: dattaway on 6/20/2009 @ 9:37 PM *

"Buying a Harley is like investing in the stock market. A record number of fat boys are going to be greatly depressed."

That is the funniest shit I've heard all day.

I owned two Harleys.One,a 2000 Heritage with the twin cam 88B. The other was a late 90's ElectraGlide Classic.They weren't bad bikes.If you like that sort of thing-you know,deep rumble,BIG,bulky,showy.And they do have a certain appeal to them.But they're not oriented for young guys so much as they are for the middle age,wife,kids-they fit right in.Yeah,there's marketing going on-naturally.People like "the American Icon".They sell big all over the world.For me,yeah,I had a certain pride in FINALLY owning the "icon".I was very"bonded"(cheezy as it sounds)to my Heritage.Then some asshole ripped it off.I lost the feeling of "uniqueness" when that happened.Never again did I feel like that about Harleys.The Electraglide-beautiful bike.But the old feeling just wasn't there.Tried to resurrect it,but nah,it had vanished.So I said"I've seen some bitchen big sportbikes"-the Busa was my goal.But I saw a zzr1200 at the Kawi dealer-and made my choice.Been with Kawi ever since.From zzr to zx12 to zx14.IMO.Harleys are okay.......for what they are.The more I take care of my 14,the more fun I get out of it.It's a big,badass sportbike that runs effortlessly,never gives me any sh&*,doesn't need to be babied-and looks AWESOME.I'm VERY HAPPY with my 14.I'm 6'1"-this bike fits perfect for me.I can't see myself ever getting another bike to replace her.Especially a Harley.I'm 55 almost 56.This bike is the bomb-It isn't a 600, or a liter bike.It does what it's designed to do-supply me with miles of hassle free performance and confidence(in the product).I have a blast cruisin by Harleys and watchin they're reactions.They've got NO idea I'm a senior citizen!Too funny.I love it.Hope to keep ridin my zx for God knows how long-my bike's a BLAST!!!Ya'll ride safe and HAVE FUN!!!!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 6/21/2009 @ 1:38 AM *

Harleys and BMWs seem to appeal to a similar attitude/lifestyle, they both appeal to people who act superior because of the machine they ride and possibly own.
The superior way you are looked down upon when you drive into a gas station or restaurant.
The possibility of getting no waves from these superior beings.
Its too much for me, I may have to buy a Harley and a BMW and leave my ZX and Yamaha in the garage until the darkest part of the night so no one will see me ride these inferior brands.
Life can be so cruel!

Harleys and BMWs seem to appeal to a similar attitude/lifestyle, they both appeal to people who act superior because of the machine they ride and possibly own.
The superior way you are looked down upon when you drive into a gas station or restaurant.
The possibility of getting no waves from these superior beings.

Kruz, that link doesn't work, I looked around their site but can't find said article.

Around here the Harley riders used to wave at me on my ZRX, but now on the 14 they just put their nose up in the air. What exactly do they have to be elitist snobs about?

Nothing makes me laugh more than a Harley owner talking about how much power his bike has.

Nothing makes me laugh more than a Harley owner talking about how much power his bike has

you haven't been to a track and watch them try to run them harley top fuel bikes... its priceless you have tears in your eyes watching them

I've always been a sport bike guy, and use to be a HD hater, until I rode one. I've had a couple of HDs, and appreciate them for what they are. All my HDs have worked, with never a breakdown or issue. Ultimately I will always prefer my zx-14 to any HD bike, but I appreciate both and think it's really just the "right tool for the job." - sometimes you feel like a nut...sometimes you don't.

I rode Harleys until 1997 (Sprint, Sportster, Heritage, Ultra)and then I went Yamaha and Buell. My Harleys with the exception of the Sprint gave me no trouble but by the mid 90s I could see the writing on the wall---too much money for too little motorcycle! I moved on and bought a Yamaha RoadStar back in "99" kept the Buell and was happy as a clam until I road the ZX for the first time. I knew I had to have one and now I feel superior when I'm riding it. I look at the Harley boys and girls and I think "poor saps" all that money for ass bling and not much performance but, as the saying goes, to each his own even if its a mistake.

Harley-Davidson is in trouble with more than finances if it can't pick up some "new" blood because us old farts who buy Harleys are slowly fading into the sunset.

I beg to differ. You have this revival of old school buy the young ones. They gobble up British and American. Even old BM Double Use, are looking old style or some sort of their own "new blood" is the old fart had their time is time for a rotation is same old bike,but New Old Punk Rockers are still the deal.
Once they figure out riding a bike costs less than riding a women is you can mount her for so long and so long as you have the mount in the garage... Someone is leaving and it is not you know who!

Harley Aerodynamicals Knukle Belt Buckle Wallet Chain Noise IS:

IT'S FIXED...and you are not going to believe it. The Harley dealer checked out the primary and found everything in good shape...no damage, no wear, etc. It must not have been completely our of oil or at least no apparent damage was done.

They did find one of the brackets broken on the upper fairing. Replaced it with confidence that they found the problem. NOT! When I picked it up, it was the same. Just before our ride yesterday, I started to clean my helmet and noticed the small plastic "bill" or eye shade on my half helmet was very loose. I could "flick" it with my finger and it would "slap" against the helmet. I secured it and rode 150 miles..no slap, no noise. It appears the wind coming off the windshield had to be just right to make that little shield chatter against the helmet. But when it did, it was loud inside the helmet. I sure couldn't tell where it was coming from but I am so relieved it's fixed. Thanks for all your comments on this problem!

Data is why they ride H-Deez. Deez idiots could not feel a ten penny nail driven up dairy ass is think someone is tapping on their shoulder.

* Last updated by: Hub on 6/22/2009 @ 9:04 AM *

I started to clean my helmet and noticed the small plastic "bill" or eye shade on my half helmet was very loose. I could "flick" it with my finger and it would "slap" against the helmet. I secured it and rode 150 miles..no slap, no noise. It appears the wind coming off the windshield had to be just right to make that little shield chatter against the helmet. But when it did, it was loud inside the helmet. I sure couldn't tell where it was coming from but I am so relieved it's fixed. Thanks for all your comments on this problem!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahh, letting these yaboo's have bikes is like giving a monkey a gun.

Harley, Harley, Harley... when i first started riding (in the 70's) AMF/HD was floundering. In the intervening years they not only "bought back" the company but managed to make it one of the most recognizable brands in the world. If you think the reliability problems they have now are something, it was much worse back then. The corporate men at Harley Davidson(r) were geniuses in that respect.

I used to ride with a bunch of 1%ers, it was what you did in the midwest back then if you had a bike. that or motocross. we rode and drank and got high. These were manly men, they loved america and all things american to a fault. they hated the threat of the japanese bike and japanese cars and the establishment and any thing else you could think of. These guys were the real deal, mean, independent fat boys(r)and hell on wheels. they got into fist fights with the cops, and the young girls always loved climbing up behind a bad boy(tm) so there was no shortage of female charms to be had. Somehow Harley managed to take that dirty smelly ugly image and dust it off, clean it up, wash it down and sell it to thousands upon thousands of people who wanted to be like that, even if only for the weekend. They managed to polish the turd! and people bought it! and they still do! the t-shirts and jeans and boutique clothing and gear have been etched into the mind of mainstream america. I remember when people would scowl and get suspicious when they found out you rode a harley. no joke. they had to check you out again to make sure you weren't going to be a problem. HD didn't change the bikes cause it would change the image, it would change the product they were selling (hint: it wasn't motorcycles). and they kept polishing the old technology the same way. they seriously kept the old pushrod engines because it was directly linked to the image. Cart pulling the horse, yeah.

i still have a 76 iron-head sportster, its a primer gray beat-to-hell dropped and picked back up carburetor fed troglodyte. When i don't have it apart for my own fun, it runs great and handles like a pig. um hog i mean... it is fun to take out and in its day it made 1-hp per CI, more than most others could boast of. Sure, its heavy and slow by todays standards, but you'll be hard pressed to find a 30+ year old bike that is more fun to ride.

NOW-days i will still stop by the dealership (for free hot dogs and soda or free coffee, hey its free) and people will actually snub me for having a bike as old as mine is. Seriously, if it's not new, Im not worth their time. The HD magic men managed to move the target, away from the old image and into the mainstream-consumer-driven "have the latest or you aren't the greatest" status driven market. one time a salesman told me i should upgrade to a new bike...i asked him, "why, mine runs fine?" and he actually said, "yeah but its old..."

HD managed to steal the idiots away from the UJM market. Back in the day most of the comments being made here would have applied to the folks buying and riding the UJM bikes. Don't know how to ride, putt along like grandpa with one turn signal on, couldn't work on their bike to save their life, wouldn't know performance from a hole in the ground, etc, etc... let them have the sheep i say!

but, will HD fail? maybe, but i for one am eager to see the next version of the harley marketing evolution(r). what new spin will they try to breath life back into the market? i'll be watching,
and it will be from the back of a zx14.

Wow......I love my 14 the most, but I sure do like the feel of that big v twin pulling out of a sweeper making that sweet american long lung noise. I am gonna get one soon as I get a chance. Not because everyione else has one, but because it is a thrill of it's own to ride in its own right. I used to say they are 30 years behind the japs, but now I understand why, it's because that's how they want it to be. Just cuz the yuppies fell for them don't mean we should hate them. They are an icon we should all be proud of.