Does anybody want to learn how the ram air effect really works on our bikes, and what is happening inside the air box while this phenomena is in effect? I wanna have an honest and open round table type of discussion on this topic, get past the misconceptions and learn what is really going on while our bikes are slicing through the air.

* Last updated by: nasty on 9/23/2013 @ 10:02 PM *

I wanna make you guys think and share what you know about ram air while we get down to the nitty gritty without making it over complicated.

1. The bike starts out slow is the triangle cut is open to an angle to catch the air like a scoop.
2. The speed builds and this linear effect remains in a mathematical balance is some formula to all this.
3. The cylinders are sucking in more air than the post ram/pre ram/tunnel boots/bladders/triangle opening can cause some ram pressure? I'm all ears.
4. The air velocity of the intakes alone have to be silenced by the whirl of wind being piped in.
5. The bladders are not making incoming noise suppressors, but silence the suck which keeps the pitch down in db's at the triangle.
6. The post ram was looking closed from any leaks. It seemed to move that needle in the low vacuum demand. But once that linear is going to make a wave at that needle again, it's going to kick in more in the triple digits... If... The engine peaks and where is that [ram's] push for what? A fraction of a second of ram when one overrides that [cylinder sucking] demand?

I'm probably 180 off on this, but that's how I read that needle and how I hear that throttle.

Well...since we can't measure the pull factor of those open throttlebodies...say...at 'approaching' ram effect velocity...we can't actually say whether the incoming ram effect air is overloading the stack's pull...the engineers know this most likely as you say with the design of the ram opening and ducting.You make a good point...for it to really be effective...it would need to be 'ramming' the outside air 'down the throat(s)' of that throttlebody.That certainly couldn't be accomplished at normal highway speeds I wouldn't think...or COULD it?The denser the air...probably the less forward velocity would be needed to achieve the same effect at higher elevations.It would only have an 'effect' if the atmospheric conditions allowed it....ramming hot thin air into the throttlebodies would basically do nothing for increased combustion/power.Even cooler air...if too thin...would negate any ram air effect...???Since you can only get to an optimum fuel/air mix....for the motor to perform correctly...if you've reached that(at a certain altitude,say...sea level)then thinning that mix by climbing is not gonna be effective for making more combustion.If you carry the a/f 'over' to get it to burn 'more'...it's not going to work right...physics won't allow but only a certain range of chemical mix to produce HP.Up here..you really don't have any good room to squeeze those a/f ratios....the elevation is a monkeywrench that can't be 'adjusted' mechanically...except by installing a blower...turbo...something like that.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/23/2013 @ 10:55 PM *

." Airplanes have pressurized cabins otherwise you would die of asphyxiation while flying at 30000ft."...yeah...but at 30,000 feet,as they descend...they're not using the same amount of 'force' to keep the cabin at safe pressure levels....it's changing...just like at sea level...the ram is more effective there....I'm not getting the same effect C is here...I can't.The density won't allow it to work fully.MAYBE...if I could travel twice or three times as fast as C up here...then it would have a good effect of performance.It would take that to force the effect to work.(efficiently)(to make the 'incoming air within the airbox dense enough' and packed with enough air molecules to actually help the combustion process).I'm sure there's a formula for this very thing...the turbo guys know how to achieve this....I can't with this stock setup...it'll only tweak so far...I do believe my bike is at that limit now.I can't really mess much now with the fueling I don't think.It's mixed as well as can be for this altitude and motor configuration.

It's always been my 'understanding' that the ram effect was there to create a more dense air mix for the intakes.And when the inside pressure of the airbox(from the ram effect)overrode the pull from the intakes(stacks)that's when it started to kick up(burn better and more efficiently) the combustion in the cylinders...as opposed to plain air pressure being pulled in from the throttlebodies(stacks).The shape of the ducts are designed a particular way for the incoming airflow to either change velocity before entering the venturis(where the ducts narrow again into the airbox)or mix better with the incoming air to create a denser air mix...or both...probably more than that going on.I'm just guessing really.They are shaped different than the 1st gens.Where they split into two pathways.I would guess the deeper ducting could create a 'spill' effect...causing the upper air path to slightly change it's speed and allow the 'denser' air in the lower portion of that duct right there to mix with that incoming air...creating a greater amount of oxygen than just coming in at the front.All that 'added' at the right time with the right loads and such could probably make a decent HP increase that could be felt..."she takes off at....'such and such' rpm(s).????

If we knew the velocity of the stacks(pulling in the airbox atmosphere) and the velocity of the incoming ram effect....we could calibrate exactly when it was gonna come into play....considering the fueling and all was correct and unchanging.Unfortunately...no two rides are the same...nor atmospheric conditions...they don't stay the same.And the ram effect changes as those change.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/23/2013 @ 11:42 PM *

There are no blow off vavles in our bikes, only a pressure sensor that reads the pressure inside our air box. The incomiing air is thus feed thru on a venturi affect which takes slow moving air and speeds it up to presssurize the air box which creates a pushing of air thru the throttle bodies. The sensor inside the box is reading said air pressure and making adjustments to our combustion to compensate and add power for the incoming rush of air. Granted only a certain volume can be reached in the air box our nose piece takes up the slack for that and pushes the unneeded air over the windscreen.

I was just 'guessing'.I actually don't know...well,let me say...I looked it up a few minutes ago and read about it...some.I'm off by quite a ways in my assumptions.Hell...IDK....these motors and configurations are definitely exotic in nature....very intelligent people have figured these things out.The physics of these new generation powerplants and their abilities are amazing really.Not so simple as one might think.

I'm starting over. I didn't like how I explained everything.

... only a pressure sensor that reads the pressure inside our air box.

Here's a fun article from back in the day....
Ram air, old school test

Get as many fans as you can in one room, turn them on, close the door, you on the outside. Ram is behind the door. Open the door so as to crack it open. Here comes formula.

X = I have a door that is vertical. That side begins the square root, axis, all that.
Y = I have the other room behind me, the air coming out is filling this room or it what? Depressurizing one side, pressurizing the other [I'm thinking]? So this is from the floor up to the ceiling is the horizontal.

Z = Watt happens next is, you'd think the air would push out that crank at a 45 degree angle. What was strange when I was trying to cool my face off from this heat wave a week or two back, I had my head at the corner of this short 1 foot wall and the door crack. When I held my hand at the crack to follow the air stream, I noticed it sucking on the wall instead of a blow to the face.

WOT is this guy doing then? Am I to imagine the air coming in the cut scoop is about to cling to ever wall in that chamber, slow down, fill up the void in the middle of the room... Think?

Slow, from scoop cut to the first cut of the valve seat [think behind the door], the valve opens, there is air [pressure] push behind 6 valve seat cuts, think. And now enter the element. I hit a brick wall made out of paper pleat. I have to rebuild pressure behind the filter as I am equal at the pleat is the pressure change, or 'I am balanced in pressure from cut to cut?' No disrupt.

If Mama Kaw claims there is a horsepower increase with the ram air at speed then I'm not going to second guess them. They have already delivered the pinnacle of human achievement and engineering into my garage, why would they feel the need to bullshit. I'd think you would need a wind tunnel to test this, and, well, they have wind tunnels. Unlikely anyone else would have the means to get real data unless you had a dyno in a wind tunnel.

That ram air is only as good as the atmospheric conditions.If you were riding in space..at 11,000 mph...it wouldn't do a thing.It was mentioned here about a 'smoothing' effect of the airflow.Hub makes an excellent observation...no matter how smooth the airflow coming in and travelling through the ducts...and into that airbox...it hits a big azz wall...the filter.It definitely changes characteristics when it tries to get through there.I would have to 'imagine' the composition of the ram induced air mix(now in the airbox) is more important than the 'smooth flow'...which would now be suddenly hampered(equalized flow distributed over the four stacks).They mentioned in the manual..and elsewhere...the filter has been upgraded...to FLOW better.Throttlebodies on one side,pulling....ram air on the other...pushing(trying to pressurize).They said the filter now has an increase in flow 40% over the gen 1's.

Which(to me)means...40% MORE oxygen packed air entering the stacks/intake valves at certain speeds...am I wrong on this?Could this be the hit we all feel at particular rpm ranges?I think the factory 'hit' on my stock 14R was right at about 6K in third or maybe 2nd...I can't remember just now...but it is definitely there...a strong increase in power.I'm probably wrong on this....but we really don't know HOW MUCH velocity it takes to induce the ram effect.

I'd have to say...before the air 'mass' hits that filter...there's plenty of turbulence going on in the airbox...I don't see any smoothing going on there.The more pressure from the incoming ram opening...the more stable the mass...but certainly not smooth.I think the filter is the key here to 'adjusting' the flow of the air into the throttlebodies.The throttlebodies are pulling so hard...that air doesn't have any time to get destabled.It's coming right out of the filter...and the stacks are guiding it with that venturi effect.It's smooth when in passes into the intake valves.As smooth as can be mechanically.

WE know Kawasaki created a much more efficient induction system on this bike.They are masters at 'flow' characteristics.One reason that installing an aftermarket air filter will gain you nothing in terms of power efficiency.That's been shown already.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/24/2013 @ 12:06 PM *

I really like the stock air filter. 9000 miles and I'm on my third one. I know I know. Every 3000 miles is a bit much. But at 3000 when I take it out and look at it, she looks like she's ready for a fresh one. Just can't help but keep her in flawless condition. I love this machine.

There is a reason why a dyno tune and a track tune are different. Our fuel maps initially look way fat up top but if you lean that mixture out there will be a loss of power on the track and less mph. It will look stronger on the dyno and run worse in the REAL world. Food for thought.

Yup...just changed mine out as well...a bit late...but done.The first one was..well...not 'horrible'...but definitely ready.Plugs are next....when I get those headers.May as well do it all at one time....I love this machine...just LOVE it;)She may be puttin out 180 HP right now...but she's STILL the baddest bike on the road...

I mentioned earlier Kawasaki engineers are masters at flow...that's why I reinstalled my stock screen,and ditched the heli risers.There IS a noticeable difference in how she cuts through the air.To me anyway.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/24/2013 @ 12:47 PM *

There is a reason why a dyno tune and a track tune are different. Our fuel maps initially look way fat up top but if you lean that mixture out there will be a loss of power on the track and less mph. It will look stronger on the dyno and run worse in the REAL world. Food for thought.

207mph. That's street 207mph. She pulls fine up top. Go back and read everything hub and nasty wrote about power and the sensors. If ya wonder if Priscilla's tune is weak in the real world. Don't. That flawless 13.1:1 is the flash tune. Add no more than what amounts to smoother and slightly more aggressive timing. Operating temps are reduced and fuel economy is up. Meaning timing is not anywhere near too aggressive. All equaling smoother sub system operations as well. TC, Eco mode is more efficient by about 4-5 mpg. I'm pretty sure grn14 and nasty are finding the same thing. They must be. Same flash. I've logged over 2000 miles on this flash and this setup now with fresh plugs oil and air filter. She is runnin stronger than ever.

* Last updated by: Cblast on 9/24/2013 @ 12:54 PM *

You guys are getting so close! but y'all are getting caught up in the misconceptions about ram air. The key is to keep a smooth air flow happening inside the air box. Keep the air where it is needed. Each opening of a valve cause the air to change directions. Pulling it away from the others.

TBC..........

I'm not convinced that flow smoothness plays into this very much(in the airbox)...when the airbox is 'pressurized' by the RAM effect...it gets an even distribution as it passes through the filter.That pressurization creates a denser atmosphere inside that airbox....creating a more 'stable' condition.The speed at which the throttlebodies pull in the air creates a venturi effect...and the porting and all smooth the flow as it enters the intakes.I think the airbox is the 'charge' of increased oxygenated(more dense) air delivered to the stacks via the filter.That's what equalizes the airflow at any given throttle setting.It's not being 'smoothed out' inside the airbox.It can't be...with the huge rush of incoming air...that's the mixing bowl...the smoothing happens at the filter....and below.

I mean...the airbox in itself is not directly connected to the throttlebodies or intakes.If it were..then the naturally unstable air would be going straight into the intakes...yes...that would be less efficient for sure.But it isn't going straight in...it's only 'charging' the atmospheric air for distribution into the intakes.I mean...that's what I see anyway....could be wrong.

I mentioned before the 'shape' of the ducting before it enters the airbox.I think that shape is directly aimed at helping the incoming air to mix and fill that airbox with an 'oxygenated' atmosphere..moreso that just two straight incoming tubes.That duct shape...the 'bowl' in there...that's not just for 'cool looks'.I think the upper airflow across that 'bowl creates a lift pulling that air inside that 'bowl' into the airflow more efficiently...and helps the oxygen molecules to mix better.If it weren't there...you would get a 'set' amount of air molecules coming into that airbox.But this design adds just enough lag time when it's flowing across there to mix in an even 'denser' amount of air.Kind of a 'pre airbox' charge.That's what I think.

I also think the faster you go...the greater the mix happens because the throttleplates only open 'so far'...eventually,you end up getting a positively(greater pressure) charged airbox..which is what you want...more oxygen molecules going in...and the ecu adds more fuel accordingly.I guess?I really don't know;)The faster...the more power.It has to happen.Unless you program the ecu to cut back on the fuel...

As your airflow across the ducting wells speeds up(you increase your mph),the volume also increases...the 'spilldown' into that well gets compressed...from the airflow above it...that lower air eventually becomes very oxygenated...moreso that the stream flowing above it.That lower condensed pocket has to go somewhere...it gets pulled back into the airstream...now very charged with oxygen.Add the intake ram air speed...the pressure...now you have a supercharged atmosphere.The shape of that pocket is critical to the way the airbox air is mixing.It's more than just smoothing an airflow...any bike can do that...just run the tubes straight into the throttlebodies...let the head sort it out.Add the ECU programming for the a/f at any given TP....you have a recipe for power.That's how I see this...I could be totally wrong.

It's all about flow(shaping,compressing,speeding up)) and volume of molecules(compressing)...what's going on in the airbox is not 'flow' connected to the intakes as such.The shaping occurs at the stacks and below.The airbox charges the airmix...it won't be smooth inside there.The filter pre feeds the stacks...that air is equalized(smooth) as it enters those stacks.The injectors are fueling a stable airflow right in that area...the venturis are increasing the airflow as well.By the time it hits the intakes...it's as stable as it's going to get.And as 'charged' as it's going to get in the stock configuration.The airbox doesn't play any role in that(other than charging the air).It's sending 'charged air' readings into the ECU and into the injectors for maximum a/f efficiency.I think;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/24/2013 @ 1:58 PM *

You are on the right track. But......so far off at the same time. Lookup the definition of harmonic vibration effect. The shape of the air box def plays a role in helping distribute the air. The ram air plays into a larger symphony orgistra with the valves and throttle bodies.

TBC........

First two moves when you read the kit-ECU of Kawi's 600/1000, meaning it's like a Wooly-ECU call it. Remove PAIR/Remove Air cleaner = Ram Effect ~ Full Effect you read between the lines.

There are a couple of things going on besides intake pressurization. The tubes effectively add to the total airbox volume, keeping a supply of fresh air readily available and not choking off flow. The other effect is the sonic tuning where the length of the tubes and the junctions and changes in diameter act to send positive pulses back to the intake valves at the speed of sound, helping to push even more charge into the combustion chamber. All three effects have to work together or they can tend to cancel each other out.

helping to push even more charge into the combustion chamber.

The video disagrees. Tell nature you are are going to ram another number into that chamber of the N/A. That which is stopped in motion and who in the back is going to keep coming and here comes the cancel out. Up comes the piston before the valve closes. All that rush and the cylinder closes to zero.

I have to disagree and place, 'faster was the event all even up' is the answer. Ram was waiting at the door, but break that seal = 14.7. So a rush of air caused the same event without ram is that ram cheats the time and enters said pressure in a shorter time we close on the penultimate in the supersonic goes zero.

pressurization ... well if you take the time and add a pressure gauge somewhere in the air box you will find little if any pressurization at any speed . Yes even 200 MPH ,this has been tested by the land speed racers .. Carbs or TBs like to pull dead air , meaning not air running across the Stacks but dead still air ..Kawi claims 10 HP , they don't say what speed it happens but just that it does happen .. The biggest gain is the engine pulling in good clean and cooler air from the front of the bike ..Now there are a few things you can do to make the ram air a bit better .. One plug the water drain holes at the bottom of the ram air tubes .Seal everything like the busa guys do ..Last but not least wrap the tubes with heat shield to keep engine heat off the tubes ..Anything that you can do to keep heat from getting into the air box ( frame ) . Ever wonder why the engine has that big rubber mat on it ? Yes to keep the engine heat off the frame ( air box ) Kawi did a great job with this bike but as we all know you can always make it a bit better ..