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Thread: 37,000 mi. spark plugs

Created on: 03/28/20 07:45 AM

Replies: 37

doznkoz


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Joined: 02/27/16

Posts: 165

37,000 mi. spark plugs
03/28/20 7:45 AM

Thank you Rook, Hub and a few others for showing how to change the spark plugs out. I just turned 37,000 miles on my 2015 and noticed a hesitation when I got on the throttle pretty hard. Dealer recommended spark plug change since they were still the original ones in it. Told me that they would need to drop the engine and could not get to it until sometime next week. I thought $500 was a bit much so yesterday I searched these forums and for the cost of the plugs did it myself. Yes, very tight area to do this swap out but doable. The only thing that concerned me was the difference in the plug gap. Manual states 0.031 - 0.035 in. The plugs the dealer sold me were tighter, 0.026 and they insisted that they were the correct ones for my bike. NGK iridium plug CR9EIX in which the gap should not be changed. The original ones that were replaced were CR9EIA-9 and the gap was indeed 0.035 in. Any thoughts on this guys? Did I mess up by installing these? I still have yet to take the bike for a ride because I have to finish replacing the right side fairing.
Thanks.

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Hub


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
03/28/20 8:41 AM

Leave the gap alone. Why? Every time it fires it arc's, right? That's material melted off as if taking an electric welder to it and see the sparks fly off running a bead? Eventually the gap widens by that alone. Would a larger gap help? It would have a longer arc so that means it fires more gas times a split of a split of a millisecond, and that square per; of the gap to fuel touch. Could a dyno pick up the difference? Ain't worth cracking the porcelain chasing gap to find out.



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doznkoz


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
03/28/20 9:12 AM

Thank You for the quick reply Mr. Hub. I really had no clue. Coming from you I will now button up the fairing and take her out for a test ride. Hopefully that solved the hesitation issue. I'll follow up this thread later today.
Stay safe and healthy.

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Rook


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
03/28/20 9:36 AM

Told me that they would need to drop the engine and could not get to it until sometime next week.

There mechanic must be Popeye if he can't get his hands in there. I would think at the most, one could remove the valve cover if one really needed extra space to get the plugs out.


Manual states 0.031 - 0.035 in. The plugs the dealer sold me were tighter, 0.026 and they insisted that they were the correct ones for my bike. NGK iridium plug CR9EIX in which the gap should not be changed. The original ones that were replaced were CR9EIA-9 and the gap was indeed 0.035 in. Any thoughts on this guys?

The manual does say CR9EIA-9 so I wouldn't worry about what the gap was especially if the plugs had some kind of packaging in the box to prevent the electrode from getting bent if the box was dropped or something like that. The procedure in Periodic Maintenance doesn't even mention spark plug gap. Wherever you found the gap spec, that might have been if you take the plugs out to check them and decide to put them back in if they are in spec. Who does that? Just change them.

If you look at hagrids pics on the link below, you can see the tip on my electrodes are tapered. I'm pretty sure they are supposed to be square when new. Like Hub said, the plugs will melt away over time. The specced gap might be for used plugs.

I put some weird double electrode plugs in mine and I didn't have a clue as to how I should check the gap(s). It runs just fine. The only thing weird mine does is a hesitation from 0 throttle to just barely cracking it. It's always done that since brand new. I think that might be a problem with the throttle sensor but I'll get that figured out someday.

You saved yourself $460. That's a lifetime's worth of spark plugs + you have the peace of mind that this wasn't done 10 minutes before lunch break.


* Last updated by: Rook on 3/28/2020 @ 9:39 AM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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doznkoz


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
03/28/20 11:26 AM

Had me laughing there Rook. I looked at the thread you shared and can agree that this "make my ninjee feel like it has a fresh new snappy pair of pure white briefs!"

The mechanic was no Popeye because I saw him in the bay. I don't know what it takes to drop the motor but I had bad feelings about someone tearing into it like that. Five years ago I had a Kawasaki mechanic replace a few items on the bike and I later found loose screws and fairing bolts (done 10 minutes before lunch break). I was not happy about that and since then I do everything myself with this forums help.

The packaging did have protection around the electrode and I did check each of them and they were all the same gap.
I now agree with you about the manual stating what the gap should be - "for those particular plugs".

Definitely a feeling of accomplishment after doing this and once again thanks for the "How To" section in the forum. My guess is the next thing that will need attention is the valves, so I have read. I am on my ninth set of tires and each time I get them changed the mechanic (K&N Yamaha of Tulsa) who actually repairs and maintains clients bikes does the tire changes for me. So far he has told me that there are no symptoms that would require adjusting the valves as of yet. That I believe I will turn over to the shop when the time comes.
You guys are awesome!

*** Forgot to add that I did take it out for a test run a little while ago. A definite difference was noticed. Much stronger, smoother, and it even sounds better. Over time I guess I slowly got used to the diminishing torque I was recently experiencing. The next plug change will be much sooner.


* Last updated by: doznkoz on 3/28/2020 @ 11:51 AM *

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
03/28/20 12:47 PM

"Over time I guess I slowly got used to the diminishing torque I was recently experiencing"...yep.Exactly.Good job on that Don.

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doznkoz


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
03/28/20 7:34 PM

Thanks Grn14. The next change out will go much quicker.
I just got in from a 45 mile test run and I pushed it pretty hard with no hesitations at all. The difference it made is quite obvious. The beast is back! Now I have to maintain a low profile on the streets while trying to enjoy it.

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Rook


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
03/31/20 8:29 PM

Glad you got it done and gladder it has brought the beast back! If you ever find my tutorials without pics and need them reloaded, let me know. There are several tutorials I have yet to redo since the Photobucket fiasco some years back. I'm on limited data right now though. Can't work a bunch with photos. Matter of fact, I think opennig my briefcase of photos here finished up all my data one night. Got a Verizon Jetpack with unlimited data on order. Won't be here til May. Backorder.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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doznkoz


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
04/02/20 4:41 AM

Thank you for the heads up about the photos Rook. I will certainly let you know if I need further help with anything that may come up. You do have some terrific "How To" tutorials.
Stay safe and healthy brother.

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Rook


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
04/03/20 12:30 PM

Thanks, you too man!



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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use2busa



Location: Dayton Ohio

Joined: 03/10/19

Posts: 41

RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/01/20 12:33 PM

So how many miles on average is everyone putting on the plugs before you change them? I only have 4k miles on my 18 so far and from what I gather its kind of a bear to do. I always used cr9eix iridium plugs on my old busa and changed them every 10k although they looked knew even then. Just curious

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ginccs


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Location: Krakow Poland

Joined: 02/27/20

Posts: 48

RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/04/20 1:18 PM

If I can interfere

mechanic (K&N Yamaha of Tulsa) who actually repairs and maintains clients bikes does the tire changes for me. So far he has told me that there are no symptoms that would require adjusting the valves as of yet. That I believe I will turn over to the shop when the time comes.

If there are already symptoms of incorrectly adjusted valves (in gasoline engines usually too tight) it is already too late. The valves should be adjusted every specified (according to the manufacturer) mileage, and it's better too early than too late.
This is one of the most serious things you can neglect - it threatens to seriously renovation the entire "top" of the engine.
If your motorcycle was manufactured after 2016, then every 26,000 miles / 42,000 km in older years I don't know, but Hub certainly knows.
Sparks every 7500mil / 12000km.
Contrary to appearances, Spark is a very important element of ignition. It not only ignites the fuel-air mixture, but also affects how and where combustion takes place - this is important in longer operation. Sparks other than the structurally recommended ones should not be used, because in the combustion chamber the mixture is directed to the spark under a certain account. It is also not a homogeneous mixture - it's a lot of theory, explanation and description - you can google.
Generally, multi-electrode sparks should not be used instead of single-electrode and vice versa. It can be combined with the type of electrodes (iridium, platinum, Cu), which can improve the life of sparks.
In NGK is straight C-thread and key R-insulator construction, 9- heat E-thread length, I - electrode type A - construction and if there is a number at the end (as in your case CR9EIA-9) then the distance between the electrodes.



I am from Poland and my English may be poor - sorry

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Hub


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/04/20 4:08 PM

Here is how you read the owner's manual:
'We here at heavy industries produce one of the highest performing bikes on the market. To maintain this performance level, we recommend you follow these mileage intervals'.

Or...:

We here at 'the shrinking wallet' will keep pulling throttle until it runs like dozn's bike.



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ginccs


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Location: Krakow Poland

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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/07/20 6:52 PM

And then bare ass



I am from Poland and my English may be poor - sorry

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use2busa



Location: Dayton Ohio

Joined: 03/10/19

Posts: 41

RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/08/20 1:06 PM

I guess there is no answer to this.

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/08/20 1:42 PM

Of course there's an answer.The manual tells us when.Seems like overkill maybe,but whathubsay is correct.My plugs are overdue.In both my bikes.Gotta fix that.


"I only have 4k miles on my 18 so far"...then you have 3K more till change.Plenty of time to prep yerself!It's really not that difficult.Just gotta be patient when yer doing it..and CAREFUL with those stick coils.AND reinstalling the plug threads.You can use a length of clear hose to attach to the plug end,then fit down in there and finger tighten first.I wouldn't suggest using a plug wrench to start the install.You need to feel it threading correctly.

You can use a flatip large screwdriver to pop the coils out BUT,you need to place the shank on something solid,and TURN by hand the coil as you're applying minimal pressure under the coil lead.VERY minimal.DO NOT just try to push up under that lead connector.You WILL snap that connector.Go a little at a time.Turning and applying pressure at the same time.They will pop up enough to lift out by hand.
You MAY get a couple inboard to pop out without using the driver.Just by lifting and turning with your hand.But there's limited space..whatever works for ya.
You can also wrap some duct tape around the driver tip so ya don't have a sharp metal edge pushing on that coil plastic connector.I'd do that just to be sure.You want the upward force to be applied in the CENTER of the underside of the connector.Not on the edge.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/8/2020 @ 2:08 PM *

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/08/20 2:30 PM

I never had much trouble just twisting and pulling up at the same time. It works out slowly but it comes.

Yeah, the answer is: when the book tells you to do it. That's best although I kind of think you can go longer without noticing a bit of deterioration in performance. Same with an air filter and an oil filter but it's best to do it BEFORE performance deteriorates. It could be permanently deteriorated performance and nobody needs that.

The real trick is getting the spark plugs in and out. The only good way to do that is with a Kawasaki spark plug tool and I hope they still include that in the tool kit.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Hub


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/08/20 2:41 PM

Trick 1: The orange weatherpac pushes against the connector. So the trick is to first push the connector in a little, depress the clip, then pull it off the stick, sensor, anything weatherpac'd.

Trick 2: First twist the stick back and forth. then pull up and out as you twist back and forth.



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Grn14


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/08/20 2:51 PM

Yep...that's the preferred way for sure.If I remember though,on my inboard ones I could not get enough grip in there to twist and raise at all.I tried.They weren't gonna come up at all.Should I add a SMALL amount of some sort of lubricant to the coil in there when I reconnect them?

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/08/20 2:54 PM

I don't think I used the tool...I might have.But I know I used a deep socket and a knuckle a couple of times.Worked okay.Just had to make sure I wasn't angling the socket while removing or tightening(especially).
I know the manual warns against using a screwdriver or similar item to lift underneath those connectors.Let's just say..I was VERY careful with applying pressure.Only when turning the coil is how I did it.Just couldn't get those couple inboard to lift at all by just turning.No leverage(for me).The #4 coil did come out without any pressure underneath.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/8/2020 @ 3:00 PM *

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Rook


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/08/20 5:54 PM

Should I add a SMALL amount of some sort of lubricant to the coil in there when I reconnect them?

The manual says to. Dialectric would be the thing to use. I have used axle grease, just a light film. No damage. Dialectric is silicone I believe and silicone does cause rubber to swell but that is one reason it works on o-ring seals and such. Petroleum swells too but it's supposed to degrade rubber....we'll start up the chain lube WD-40 conundrum if we're not careful.

I've used a light film of petroleum grease and I've used a light film of dialectric grease. They both seem to work and it;s not too hard to get the coils out.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/09/20 12:11 AM

Thank you Daron.I was thinkin maybe graphite?IDK.I may have put some Petroleum jelly on those last time.Gettin old(er)I guess

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Hub


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/09/20 12:29 AM

dozn, just curious... did you buy the bike new? How did you break it in? If used, do you know the break-in history... if the previous owner was honest.



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doznkoz


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/09/20 7:21 AM

Good morning guys.
Hub, I did purchase the bike new and broke it in by not exceeding 4,000 rpm's for the first 500 miles. That was 6 years ago and I am pretty sure I stuck to that 99% of the time I rode it (first bike and rather large investment). Oil change followed the break in period. Oil changes every 3,000 miles or less and I have never had a leak from any fluids whatsoever. Original battery but I do keep it on a tender when not in use.

I used a rather strong magnet to remove the old plugs since my socket would not hold onto them. The one thing I did fail to do was to remove the plug terminal nut before installing the new ones so I had to do it all over again.

A good friend of mine that I have not heard from for a few months called me last night and let me know that yesterday he purchased a new 2020 Hyabusa (his second one but sold that years ago) and now promises to keep up with me out on those country roads. His Ducati, Honda, and Can-Am just couldn't do it nor would I have expected them to. He is 10 years older then me at 69 so if you see two guys out there on the road with silver beards hanging out the bottom of our helmets on crotch rockets, that's probably us

My friend Merlin and his 1200 Monster. I rode it but did not care for it. Felt like I was riding a tractor. Quick but no match whatsoever.

My 2015 14r with 37,327 miles. I have had it pegged out a few times. Realized lately that 3rd gear will damn near bring the front wheel off the ground if I hit it hard enough. Crazy fast!


* Last updated by: doznkoz on 5/9/2020 @ 7:44 AM *

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Hub


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RE: 37,000 mi. spark plugs
05/09/20 8:40 AM

Thanks, donz. I may change the plugs with the first valve check. The reason I asked was the oil running up the plug threads. Usually a tight chamber would have dry threads and dry porcelain noses. From left to right, 3rd plug looks glossy at the nose. You can sort of see the ceiling lights reflex off it.

I was very anal about the break-in. Took canyon roads so I'd load the engine up the hills, coast down the hills. The break-in never reached the rpm limits. Between the 4 bikes going thru my hands, 2 beat, 2 booked; the book bikes never lost oil level positions, but the beaters did... a lot.

Now I'd be curious to see where my threads windup in all this. Funny that all the plugs are oil wet. A compression test will tell if you have a problem... that, or are you losing oil between dumps?

Dry threads: https://i.stack.imgur.com/yy6o3.jpg

Clean-lean burning. That's what I'm looking for.



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