I picked up a used 2016 Zx14r the other day. It has a guhl/brocks flash, pc5, and brocks full exhaust. Not sure if anything else was done. It seems to run pretty good. On decel it pops a lot, I really don’t like that.
Any suggestions on what I should do as far as maintenance? Maybe get it dyno tuned? Not sure why it needs a flash plus the pc5...

I'd have to watch an AFR gauge to see if the bike richens up on decel or leans out. Pop is a refire in the pipe. So if the flash was more like for 'engine breaking', lean would hop the wheel, rich would keep firing with a softer or richer fuel feed and soften the wheel hop. And then you have more oxygen to enter the open pipe. This now adds more air to the fuel in the pipe, the flame out of the open exhaust, the extra air causes the fire or pop that air bubble.

Lift is not how it runs. WOT is more how it performs, ignore the pop. That or install the stock exhaust and the muffler is blocking that same noise going on when stock too.

Maintenance is in the owner's manual. This is the hours/miles chart that says who to lube, who to change, who to service at said intervals. The quickie chart goes something like this:

Chain: Lube every 300-500 miles.
Coolant change: Every 2 years.
Brake fluid change: Every 2 years.
A/C: Change out every 12,000 miles.
Oil/Fil: Every 3,000 miles.
Spark Plugs: Every 7,500 miles.
Valve adj/throttle body sync: Every 15,000 to 18,000 miles. And while the fairing is off...
... Hardware check/lube: That means, spray the pivots on the foot pegs, or remove them like the levers, and pack the sleeves with grease, anti-seize paste, something on the pivots so the lever holes don't elongate. Grab a handful of tools, then start at the bottom of the fork pinch bolts and work your way up the front end. Move back to the engine hanger bolts/nuts; keep moving back and find as many nuts, screws that are in that path as you head towards the swing arm, and end at the adjust lock nuts at the axle.

Dyno tune is a waste of time. Those are more for chasing HP. Of course you can improve the performance, but at what cost? Are you going to drag race it or ride it? I'd dyno it if I was going to weekend race it. But to just pull your dick out and measure it? Now what do you do with the number?

* Last updated by: Hub on 6/6/2020 @ 8:42 AM *

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A lot of tuners suggest using a PC5 with a flash. If you ever want to adjust AFR, you can do it without having access to flash software. It's possible the AFR mapping is only done through the PC5. The ECU fuel tables might not be changed from stock.

Popping on decel is normal. My Gen1 does it and so do most other Gen1s. I have heard of people tuning the 0% throttle fueling with a PC5 to eliminate popping. Dynojet doesn't recommend doing this. 0% throttle is also the fueling used for idle and that is probably the reason why. You could tune 0% above idle speed without effecting the fueling at idle.

* Last updated by: Rook on 6/6/2020 @ 3:14 PM *

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Thanks for the replies. I guess I need to find out what was done with the flash. Then look Into what, if anything, the pc5 is doing. I’m just interested in reliable riding on the street. I don’t need the bike to be running on the edge or the rev limiter removed.

Brock will probably have a PC5 map that will suit your needs better. I wouldn't bother. You will probably get better fuel economy with a race map. Lean is for racing and lean's less gas. AS for the stuff the flash does, you probably won't like that better if you flash it back to OEM either.

* Last updated by: Rook on 6/6/2020 @ 10:38 PM *

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I’m a pretty new rider, and have never used a power commander before. I was able to update the pc5 firmware today. I also found that the map looks to be a brocks street map for the mods(air filter, guhl/Brock glash#2, and alienhead 2 full exhaust. Not sure if anyone has messed with the brocks tune, so I signed up to get a street tune on the brocks website. Maybe I should get a highway race tune, but not sure what the difference would be.
I reset/calibrated the tps on the pc5. It seems to run about the same.

Thanks for all the help.

* Last updated by: kwikrnu on 6/9/2020 @ 7:26 AM *

I would not suggest changing any values in the map unless you are quite familiar with the DJ equipment and AFR tuning. The most important thing to do would be to save the original map incase you ever need to go back to it. That could be just because you got confused or suspect you made an error when you input values. You would always want to have the original map to provide a comparison. I use Autotune to adjust my maps. If you are interested in doing that it doesn't work well the way DJ tells you to do it. I have a whole thread on how to use Autotune.

I signed up to get a street tune on the brocks website. Maybe I should get a highway race tune, but not sure what the difference would be.

You'd have to ask Brocks. Why not ask for more than one map? Personally, I don't think you will notice much difference between any of them if you're honest with yourself. As long as the AFR is safe, the the difference between maps isn't dramatic. Any changes you might notice will be in the lower rpm and low TP zone because you are accustomed to using that zone.

I reset/calibrated the tps on the pc5. It seems to run about the same.

Did you do it with engine running, set 0% TP and then wide open to set 100% TP. I set mine to but it didn't make any diff either. It's a good thing to do to make sure the PC5 is in sync with the TPSensor.

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The only thing I did to the bike today was configure the tps, and update firmware on the pc5. The bike pops less on decel now, not sure why. The speedometer is correct now. Before it was around 5mph slower than my gps. Not sure why that happened. I thought the pc5 only controlled the fueling.

I set the bike like you and dynojet recommend. I saved a copy of the map that came on the bike before I updated the firmware. I didn’t want to lose any data. The problem is, I don’t know if any previous owner experimented with the map. So, I’m going to get a map from brocks. I don’t plan on trying to tune the bike myself. I just need something reliable and fast. I ride about 1500mi/month when it’s good weather.

* Last updated by: kwikrnu on 6/7/2020 @ 8:20 PM *

The only thing I did to the bike today was configure the tps, and update firmware on the pc5. The bike pops less on decel now, not sure why. The speedometer is correct now. Before it was around 5mph slower than my gps. Not sure why that happened. I thought the pc5 only controlled the fueling.

Calibrating the TPS could make a difference for decel popping. If the TPS 0% voltage was higher than the what the PC5 0% TP was set for, you might not have been getting any fueling adjustment for 0% TP (if Brock adjusts the 0% column, most tuners don't to avoid conflicts with stock fueling at idle). The PV5 wouldn't have anything to do with adjusting your speedo. There is a wheel speed calculation that goes into the PC5 but it comes from the sensors on the bike, not vice versa. Your speedo should not be affected by the PC5 unless there is something peculiar to the Gen2.

I set the bike like you and dynojet recommend. I saved a copy of the map that came on the bike before I updated the firmware. I didn’t want to lose any data. The problem is, I don’t know if any previous owner experimented with the map. So, I’m going to get a map from brocks. I don’t plan on trying to tune the bike myself. I just need something reliable and fast. I ride about 1500mi/month when it’s good weather.

Sounds like you know how to be careful. That's good. Good idea to start with a map you know is all Brocks because it's possible someone has edited the map you now are running on.

* Last updated by: Rook on 6/7/2020 @ 9:37 PM *

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From your photo, there is all zeros in the first two columns which mean no fuel adjustment for 0% 0r 2% TP between 7750 and 10500 rpm. If you have zeros all the way up to idle speed, there is no fuel adjustments for 0 or 2% TPs in the map. Personally, I think the 2% column is the most important to tune. I use 2% throttle or less a lot.

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kwikrnu, I just looked at my map and it does have some significant fuel adjustments at 0% throttle and those are around the idle speed zone only. No other adjustments to 0% throttle. Apparently autotune told me it was necessary to subtract fuel to idle the bike at 13 AFR. 13 was my AFR number all throughout my map including the 0% TP column. So, looks like I did tune the 0% column. Makes sense, I use small throttle positions a lot.

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First of all, good luck with the bike!

Here's my $.02. In my 44 years of riding, I've had jet kits, ignition modules, PC's, and flashes.If you're not racing where you need every last hp, a GOOD flash will give you everything you need to have your bike perform at it's best. You'll have good fueling, good ignition timing, no speed limiter, a slightly higher rev limit, and (I think) quicker opening of the secondary throttle butterflies. PC's have been around a long time and have done wonders for bikes. But, at least on my bike, it's completely unnecessary. And, I'd rather not have anything electronic in series with the engine management system. PC's are reliable, but they do fail. That would definitely ruin your day.

If I were you, I'd have the bike dynoed by a reputable tuner. The graph will show you if the AFR is good, and the max hp reading and torque curve will show you how good the flash and PC tune is. If anything looks amiss, I would remove the PC and dyono again. If your bike has a good flash in it, you should be good.

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Here is my take on dual-tuning. Yes, I've installed jet kits in my day, what's FI? Big improvement kitting these bikes. I have very little experience with the tuning part when FI became my new world. So I went Dobeck with his little box capturing the signal out to the injectors. It had the ability to squirt the accel signal. There was a sweet spot there reading the AFR in real time. I could screw in/out the accel pot, yeah baby!

Then changed to the dj, the ign box, autotune, all that. Only way to go was a richer setting with the mapping. Then on top of that was a flash. Then the slips. So I tried what was out there, shrugged my shoulders, yeah, pipes helped with the grunt, accel helped with the WOT, and I'll stop there. With the rich map, it was smoother yeah, but I'm more of a lean is mean kind of; in need of more milli-moves away from the fenders. Raw grunt is my aim, not necessarily a smooth map.

So if it wasn't for the noise, I'd pipe and accel pump and call it a day.

Signed,
Bottom Feeder Fender Squirt'er Club Member

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Thanks for all the ideas and help. Since the bike came with a pc5, I’m going to try and use it. The bike runs pretty good, better now with less popping on decel. I’m going to get a pc5 map direct from brocks for my bike. That should put it in the ballpark(it might be what I already have), and I won’t need to spend any money on it. It already scares me with how fast it is. I love how comfortable it is when cruising around

So if it wasn't for the noise, I'd pipe and accel pump and call it a day.

Accel Pump is a PC5 function if that's what you are talking about, Hub. I haven't messed with it. I would have to look at my Control Center Software tutorial but I think Accell Pump pours extra fuel in when you rapidly open to WOT, at least that's how DJ explained in to me.

If you email the picture you posted of your map, Brocks should be able to tell you what map it is. That doesn't mean someone has not edited it though.

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The other day brocks sent me three tunes for my bike. Street, race pump gas, And race fuel. The street map works fine. I should be good for now.

So, I’ve had the bike about a month and rode it about 3k miles so far. No problems, except today. I rode about 400 miles to tail of the dragon and back. It was hot, I never cooked the bike down, but temp riding never got much above 200*F.
After I got to deals gap, I headed back. This is when I noticed the issue. I had about 1.5 gallons of gas in the tank. Every time the rpms got to 6-7+k the bike would shudder like it was starved for fuel. It didn’t matter the gear, just rpm. 1-6th gear all shuddered when hitting 6-7+k rpm.
I filled the tank with gas and no problem, until it had about 1.5 gallons of gas left in the tank. When I filled it again, there was no problem.

I’m thinking it has to be a pump or filter clog... not sure though. Any ideas?

Maybe check the vent hole in the cap to make sure its not clogged. I dont see why the fuel filter would only restrict flow at 1.5 gal ... its on the bottom of the pump.

IDK, sounds like heat and pressure and air volume to me but its not hard to through a new pump/filter into the tank

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If the atmospheric pressure can't get in, the fuel won't come out.

Sounds like a tank venting issue causing a vacuum.

Did you try opening the cap when it got low and starting having issues?

Just a thought.

I check those out. Thanks

I’m thinking it has to be a pump or filter clog... not sure though. Any ideas?

That would have been my guess too. Those sound like the symptoms but they'd be the same for a blocked breather. I hope that's all it is.

Run sea foam every now and then. Store with Seafoam. My bikes are 1o and 12 years old and I've never had a fuel clog problem yet.

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You could squeeze the gas cap lock tangs that come out, push those in by hand and pull the key out of the gas cap. This is when the tank is at a gal and change. Then nail it to redline with the cap not closed. Get it? That eliminates the vacuum lock. If it still does it, probably needs the plugs changed and a new air cleaner element. Check the air cleaner.

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/10/2020 @ 7:44 PM *

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had a similar issue, with the starving occuring around 4k rpm, whatever the gear, and running well with full tank
turned out to be rust flakes in the fuel tank, the bike had been sitting in the dealer's showroom with empty tank for a couple of years
when the rust chips get diluted in a full tank, with the vibrations of the ride helping, they do not affect the fuel flow that much

I tried to take the gas cap apart to clean it, because it is corroded. I lost a spring for the latch. It’s pretty likely the problem is the vent, so I bought a vortex Vented gas cap. It seems to work right now, but I need to ride further to make sure the issue is solved.

The bike only has 8k miles right now. I cleaned the air cleaner 1k miles ago. The spark plugs should last longer than 8k miles. Since it runs fine on a freshly filled tank, I’d guess the plugs and filter have nothing to do with the presenting issue.

Edit: the new aftermarket cap didn’t fix the problem. However, after several tanks of gas, the problem no longer exists. It had to be some bad gas. I never thought bad gas could present as a problem at a fixed rpm. Anyway after several tanks it’s running good at all rpms all the way to completely empty.

* Last updated by: kwikrnu on 7/20/2020 @ 4:36 AM *

An aftermarket cap is a good weightloss anyway and it's a nice appearance mod.

If that's an OEM air filter, replace it, do not clean it. If it's a reusable aftermarket filter, ok. I'd rather stick with an OEM and change it every 6000 miles. My sparkplugs were working fine after 44k miles. They break down though and that might cause some engine wear. I'd change them according to schedule.

Yes, if the air filter or plugs were bad, they would always be bad, not just when you ran low on fuel.

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