Has one of these things ever failed? I absolutely hate the sound of this thing, especially if my bikes been sitting idle for a week or so. The tensioner bleeds down and it sounds like it's thrashing itself to death until it pumps back up with oil. The engineer that designed this system should be tied to a chair and forced to listen to it 8 hours per day for a month. I'm considering a manual tensioner.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 8/17/2010 @ 2:08 PM *

I run one on mine. It sits for weeks at a tome, gets started and absolutely thrashed, then parked. Doing me good so far, no noise and no adjusting all year.

Manual is the way to go, Kruz. My bike sits for a month or more and is dead quiet on start up. Also, more critical, when there are a bunch of us and the 'other makes' are there, my bike is quiet! I would hate to have a Clattasaki. Did have until I had the tensioner modified.

Quick question, I own four other motorcycles that don't sound like they are thrashing themselves to death on startup. What's with the 14's chain tensioner design? I mean it's not like they had to re-invent the wheel here, these things have been around forever .

* Last updated by: Kruz on 8/19/2010 @ 7:19 AM *

Still got an APE manual tentioner for sale in the "ZX-14 For Sale/Trade" section.

FS: APE manual adjust cam chain tensioner for zx-14

* Last updated by: motoCycho on 8/19/2010 @ 5:13 PM *

Can't stand the ACCT either. If my bike sits a day or longer, I am now in the habit of bumping the start-kill switch a couple times before I let her run. This seems to "prime up" the oil and make for a quiet start. Will install an APE manual soon and I am sure she will be quiet as a church mouse on the first click of the start button. Chalk it up to a very poor design by Kawi.

Hmmmm...I'd guess perhaps a CONTRACT between APE and Kawasaki?You know...good design ...kinda...but nothing that would actually HURT the motor...just annoying.Somehow,it must have a reason WHY it works the way it does.Maybe one of those "company secrets"(and I don't mean...hydraulic).I mean,its annoying way that it actually starts operating.??????????Would seem like they could design something with the spring in there that would keep a continuous pressure against the shoe,but light enough that it wouldn't push in too hard.That IS a strange design,using oil pressure.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/19/2010 @ 8:08 PM *

one thing you have to think about:where does the oil go when you put in an adjustable cam chain tensioner??the oil feed line is machined in the block.if you don`t block the oil feed line,you have an internal oil leak,and you lose oil pressure and eventually you will lose your engine||ihave read a lot of post on manual cam chain tensioner,and i have never read a post on how to block the oil feed line.it`s better to hear a little rattle on start up than to hear one big bang!!!!

Well..that's a fine how duh ya do.Sheesh....never heard of that before.I've been runnin the APE tensioner for 38,300 miles.As far as I can tell....there's no damage(yet).??????????????IF you had an "internal" oil leak....where exactly would it be going anyway?Wouldn't it just be going back into the pan to be picked up by the oil pump?It can't escape the internal areas of the engine?(can it?)Interesting.IF this was the case....wouldn't APE or the others warn the customer about this situation?It isn't mentioned in the instructions.

"Never heard of how to block the line".Never heard of a manual tensioner causing a catastrophic engine failure.HHmmmmmmm...... Interesting indeed.Apparently Ryan Shnitz racing thinks they work fine...haven't heard of any lawsuits against him over selling these tensioners to the zx14 community.Hmmmmm.

You know...there was a guy on here that was raving angry because he couldn't get his point across about letting everyone know just how bad those manual tensioners were.Haven't heard from him ever since he made some video about the failings of the forum members and how stupid they were...something like that.Wonder what ever happened to that guy?Hope he's doin okay.

I'll keep my quiet startup motor I think for a while longer

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/20/2010 @ 12:16 AM *

Yip, Blue07, I think I will keep my quiet start-up too. My tensioner was modified by the guy who does my dyno tuning and he is pretty clued up on bikes. He is aware of how fussy I am and he will not do something that is gonna give us hassles. By us, I mean me and HIM. He knows!!! If my bike breaks, so does he. So, I think no clatter is the way to go.

I've owned more bikes than I can remember over the years, and have never had a stock automatic cam chain tensioner fail, whether it was spring or oil operated. I have no plans on changing my 14's out anytime soon Besides, it only rattles for a couple sseconds then its done no biggie.

Oldie but still a goodie for you Kruz

https://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=579EB841-1372-66AE-3B4488D0DAA71CC8

* Last updated by: Philhnnss on 8/20/2010 @ 11:51 PM *

Every machine has its own characteristics as far as noises ect. After owning LOTS of machines I've come to realize that each machines normal operating noises are just that...normal, and as long as its part of the machines normal characteristics, and not hurting anything, it doesn't bother me. So if it aint broke, I don't fix it. Plus I like an auto cam chain adjuster over one I have to adjust myself

.IF the oil flow was OPEN(removing the tensioner)....could this lack of entering the factory tensioner really create enough oil pressure loss to make a difference

BUT--

Here's what I want to know: If you have a manual tensioner, how do you know if and when to adjust it to keep timing at it's best? Isn't the CCT supposed to self adjust for wear to timing chains, cams, etc.?

Except that they need to be "constantly adjusted"....apparently I got a decent one?
AN EFFECTIVE SOLUTION
"To eliminate this problem we installed an APE manual cam chain tensioner in place of the factory automatic one. Using basic tools, the installation was completed in around 20 minutes and immediately resolved our loose cam chain issue. We have been testing at the track and out on the streets for well over a month with the tensioner installed and we have had no issues and it has required no adjustments. The motor consistently sounds nice and tight with zero cam chain noise."Found on an R1 forum.

My experience as well.I am however thinking about maybe fashioning the stock one into a spring loaded one.It seems that by removing the inner parts,threading an adjuster bolt through the body,and cutting the spring and reusing it along with the piston it could work quite well and still allow some chain movement without excess.Anyone have any thoughts on this idea?It would eliminate the real possibility of the factory unit failing,and still not restrict the cam chain from flexing during the tight part of the run?This deal with the chain slack....one side being "tight",the other having slack...that doesn't make sense to me...that it would be doing this while running.I mean,once she starts rolling,won't any slack continuously move around the chain run...not just stay "tight" at one point or the other?

This is my understanding of it.The adjuster is at the rear run.Basically,that run is virtually the same length as the front run.It can't slap at the top.The shoes are up there.Nor would it slap at the bottom,as it's crossing the lower sprocket there.So they push the chain in at the rear run.Adjusting the slack via the rear run with the motor running keeps the tension constant pretty much throughout the whole run(as the factory tensioner does once the oil pressure's up).That's why I don't see how determining the "tight" part,and rotating it to the tensioner part,then adjusting makes any sense to me.Why would the chain be tight ONLY one point?This whole thing of determining the tight part and rotating it to the adjuster point...I don't get this at all.If the gears and such are equal and undamaged,then how would the chain have a chance to develope a tight spot?Seriously...I'd like to understand this.I'm not trying to say it doesn't or can't happen.I only want to know HOW it could happen.I could see it if the sprockets were beginning to wear...yes...having areas of slack everytime the chain passes over that spot on the gear.That wouldn't create MORE tightness.It would create MORE slack.But how is the manual tensioner any different than the hydraulic one in regards to applying pressure on the slack part of the chain as it comes around to the rear run?It's adjusted to the point of taking up just enough slack to stop the slapping.Be it front or back of the run,and how could it be tighter at the front...this I'm not getting .Unless the manual one was adjusted TOO much against the shoe,I can't see how any abnormal gear wear would occur.And if she started making noise again,a small readjustment would be all that was needed to compensate for normal gear wear,which probably would mean MANY miles in between .

I could see however if the factory one failed,a serious slack problem which could possibly cause a gear /tooth jump.

Well...okay...I reinstalled my modified stock tensioner.Put er in there preadjusted to the same length of the manual one...had to cut the spring down a couple of rungs to match the manual setting.Started my baby.Got a consistent rattle(but not real bad)on startup and idling(probably from it being spring loaded now instead of static load from the manual bolt).Adjusted the bolt till she was quiet(didn't take but a couple of turns to get it quiet.. so the spring still has plenty of action still available).All done now.So I've turned it 180 out so the oil passage will be blocked by the tensioner body.The tension is now variable as the chain runs through the circle.It can give and take without having a set force at every tight or slack spot there may be,or will be.The stock spring is allowing the shoe to move against the chain as it needs to.I can't see why this will not work alright.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/22/2010 @ 5:03 AM *

ok blue07 you were very fast to respond to my post about ``internal oil leaks``,but why respond to something you clearly know nothing about????????yes the oil will go back in the pan and get sucked back in the pump,but that`s not where you need it.
like in all hydraulic system,the oil will go where there is less resistance and not where you need it!it doesn`t a big hole to escape and you will lose oil pressure everywhere else.think about your brake lines for example,how big of a leak is acceptable????????
if you think that because ape or schnitz sells them that they must be great,remember one thing,they sell parts for MONEY and only MONEY!!!!
cigarette company sells cigarettes to make MONEY,AND ONLY MONEY!!!!
you haven`t heard of any lawsuit against them!!!!you never will!!!who would be stupid enough to go to court and claim that an aftermarket performance part caused damage to your engine?when you instal it you instantly void your waranty and you are ready to take the risk.
i do all the work on my bike myself,i build engines for street,circle track,and drag as a hobby!i take pride in the work i do(not what someone else does!!)
my bike (2006 zx-14)put out over 200hp on G-FORCE`s dyno(more than once)with yosh pipe and pcIII,all the rest is from my work and parts I made(research g-force on the net).
i don`t spend a lot of time in front of the computer,to try to make people think that i`m smart and know everything!!
i do my thing in the garage!!
so don`t respond when you don`t know what you`re talking about,some people may think you are hot because you respond to every subject,but in my opinion,a loud mouth doesn`t piss far!!!

"out of the abundance of the heart,the mouth speaketh".I'm glad you explained where the oil goes!If you're worried about an oil pressure problem...did you inspect the design of the tensioner?There's a pic of the oil flow in the manual.Maybe you could give me a rundown on WHAT that schematic is showing.I'm all ears here! I'm very happy you have a 200 hp zx.Impressive my man!Good on ya!!

My warranty expired at 12,000 miles.I installed my tensioner at 2,000 miles.I've now 38,almost 39,000 miles.Hard miles.High speed miles.SUSTAINED high speed miles in some cases.She runs better than the day I brought er home.She runs better everytime I go out.Honestly.If there's an oil pressure problem...well....I don't know WHAT to say

Trust this...I'm not trying to give any kind of knowledge superiority impression to ANYONE.Period.I'll be the first one to say "I don't know".If I WAS trying to impress anyone...I wouldn't be asking for anyone else's opinions or ideas about what I say about something.The only thing I share here is MY experiences....not EXPERTISE...there IS a difference.If I ask a mature question concerning something....I would think that the EXPERIENCED ones here(my zx14 brothers)would give me a mature and sound answer.Make sense?

At least the Rookster gave his opinion to my question.And the rest as well.Why,even YOU gave your opinion!That's excellent.That's what I was hoping for....other people's ideas about the subject.It's not a battle about who's right.THAT's MY opinion.

"if you don't block the oil feed line,where will the oil go?" Have you looked at the manual tensioner body itself.Did you measure the distance from the inside mount flange and compare it with the factory distance to the oil passage hole in the tensioner? Factory tensioner: 1/4".Manual tensioner body inside of engine from o-ring groove inward:1/2".I "think"(here I go again)....that just about covers the "cam chain tensioner oil passage"....the one shown on the schematic.Oh well...what do I know?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/24/2010 @ 12:19 AM *

Looking at Ron Ayers parts diagram for the 2006 ZX14 I noticed the part # for the automatic cam chain tensioner has been superceded buy a new part #. Have they changed this part to correct the startup noise problem?

HHmmmm....maybe?

[quote][Looking at Ron Ayers parts diagram for the 2006 ZX14 I noticed the part # for the automatic cam chain tensioner has been superceded buy a new part #. Have they changed this part to correct the startup noise problem?
/quote]

Hmmm, I'll almost bet that's what happened, kinda like the cheesy plastic '06/'07 airfilter cover that leaked dirt into your motor. They quietly changed it to an aluminum plate in '08 and never said anything to the rest of us.

Is the part # the same as later year ZX-14 cam chain tensioners? If it's the same # as the '08, it will still rattle. Now I'm starting to notice mine because you guys are talking about it!

Ah...it won't hurt anything..

I agree with JollyRoger, won't hurt a thing

......... .......

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/25/2010 @ 4:54 PM *