I read this tip the other day and it's great. If you've had a problem with being in a turn and feeling like you're going a little wide, what do you do? You can straighten up brake and re-turn. ( novice move) Or release throttle to slow and and maybe loose traction with the back tire. (doable but feels funky) OR you can turn your head and look at the end of the curve! What will that do? You'll immediately get the feeling you're going slower and increasing your lean angle will be much easier. It's common to be looking down on a turn, have a moment of concern, and then look where you might go. (the woods, the canyon, the gardrail...) But don't. Just lift your head and look way ahead. It's not only a good tip... it's how you're supposed to take a turn.

* Last updated by: Sharkey on 11/6/2009 @ 12:14 PM *

I'm not sure I agree with anything but the obvious fact that the bike will go where your eyes are.

"the bike will go where your eyes are"

Yep, agreed and that's why target fixation can be deadly.

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 11/6/2009 @ 5:06 PM *

when things go wrong trust your tires and lean,look thru the corner and dont fixate.Last year I was following a KTM 950 thru some GA roads,He f---ed up and went to hot into a corner,well I f---ed up right behind him.Dont know how I made it thru that corner but according to the rider behind me I was so far off the bike I was dragging my hip.Fortunately my bowels were empty

countersteer, countersteer, countersteer

Just pitch that bitch in there. Most people don't realize how much lean angle they actually have left.

mass sez

I'm not sure I agree with anything...

I agree with Heathun....whether it has 2 legs or 2 wheels, pitch that bitch where it needs to go

OOOOOOO ummmmmm - that's the theory but in practice, the bike is going to slide if you lean it too hard under adverse conditions. I ride some super tight twisties - hairpins - and I still haven't cleaned off my chicken strips on either bike. I have slid on both bikes going too hot into a corner, both times in the Fall of the year, both times on stock tires. So lean, yes but you may be in for a drift slide which is more than I want to try to handle at this point. I straightened up both times and that meant riding right into the oncoming lane.

Never slid on my BT-016s and those are the tires I have cornered hardest with. Still, I won't be trying it any more until the ground warms up.

* Last updated by: Rook on 11/6/2009 @ 8:16 PM *

One thing I found which surprised me-when entering into a curve,sharp or sweeping,I can get MORE lean angle if I get off the seat and get my body over the side more on the inside.The bike will feel as if it's NOT leaning as much,but in reality,the strips disappear quickly doing this.I can only guess that I'm actually carrying MORE speed and MORE lean this way,though it doesn't feel like it.And I've noticed also that in some of those circumstances-on familiar curves,I've actually been going SLOWER,yet still got the strips better than staying in the saddle and riding it through.HALLO HEATHUN!!!.................PUSH RIGHT,GO RIGHT!PUSH LEFT,GO LEFT!!!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/6/2009 @ 9:09 PM *

^^and lower tire pressure too. I know there has been debate over whether or not this is a good idea for the street. I think it depends on the tire. My stock BT-014 front tire felt scary 5 lbs under-inflated. The busa's stock tires are BT-015s and they felt much better with only 30 lbs of air than after I pumped them up to spec.

Rook you described your problem on the two incidents going into the corner too hot and straightened up and crossed the yellow line into the oncoming lane. I think the general method is to approach a turn, right for example, from the left side of the lane slow before the corner and let off the brakes before the corner on the gas in the corner. The key as mentioned is to look ahead. Another thing that I have found and talked to others about is lower the inside shoulder instead of sitting up especially when in doubt. I've found my best riding has been while lowering my body over the tank and looking down the barrel of the curve. I also find that using the rear brake in the curves I put the balls of the feet on the pegs and use the rear brake as needed as well as the front.

Lots of theory.

If I was 20-something and wanted to knee drag, I'd have a ZX10R not a ZX14.

Will the ZX14 lean far enough to break both the front and rear free ? Yes. Should you? Depends on what you want.

kawnow wrote:

I think the general method is to approach a turn, right for example, from the left side of the lane slow before the corner and let off the brakes before the corner on the gas in the corner.

This is the opposite of what i normally do. I like to be on the throttle throughout a corner but I always try to be as close as possible to the inside at the start and widen out as I pick up speed coming out. My logic is that if I have too much speed to make the curve on the inside, I still have the whole width of the lane to go wider. Of course, if I leaned hard enough to slide, the width of one lane on a back road isn't much leeway on a real tight corner.

One thing I found which surprised me-when entering into a curve,sharp or sweeping,I can get MORE lean angle if I get off the seat and get my body over the side more on the inside.The bike will feel as if it's NOT leaning as much,but in reality,the strips disappear quickly doing this.

This is interesting, blue... My feeling is that if you get your weight off the seat and toward the inside of the turn, you can corner tighter WITHOUT quite as much lean angle. That the bike will turn sharper without being leaned over quite so much.

That's how it seems to me, anyway. I might be wrong.

But if I'm right, that doesn't explain how you are reducing your chicken strips by riding this way.

If I'm coming up on a slight curve, it seems that I can just move my head and shoulders in the direction of the turn, not lean the bike or counter steer at all, and the bike will turn slightly -- even though it is (I think) perfectly straight up vertically.

I've also noticed that if I'm coming up to a turn that I'm going to have to really lean into, it feels VERY good to first shift my weight to the inside of the turn and then (with countersteering) PULL the bike down towards me (towards my head and shoulders, which are leaned a bit off the bike).

I'm sure I'm full of shit, but just thought I'd throw this out there... -bg

One of the primary reasons for getting off the seat is to (reduce) lean angle, essentially trading countering body weight for the ability to stand the bike up for a larger tire contact patch.

When one has cornerphobia then the but stays in the middle of the seat and lean angle is a foriegn language.

You are worried about having the tire slide? Unless there is something like gravel or oil the tire will not slide unless you are a MotoGP rider. The rubber will start to ball up slightly on the street if you are really pushing it even then only slightly has been my experience with this heavy bike which does ok for me. I have felt the front slip a couple inches a couple times in 20000 miles of many back roads this while removing the chicken strips especially on the left side. I figure one goes slower on right turns because of limited vision around the corner.

Yeah Gordon-that's what I was thinking as well-but apparently I'm leaning MORE as I get my body closer to the ground and become more tuned in to the path of the motorcycle?Either that or I'm speeding up and not realizing it,causing me to lean even more though I'm off the seat kinda.The contact patch comment above,yeah-that's what I thought I was increasing by leaning the way I sometimes do.But I'm not so sure now.The bike feels more straight up and down,but the tires don't lie!Go figure!

Its still just theory.

You guys are talking about cornering using road racing cornering mechanics as the basis of discussion. Which is perfectly valid on a race track.

None of which applies to a ZX14 on public roads. It just doesn't.

Last week, a kid on a big sportbike was knee dragging around a mountain road near here, tight sweeping corner. Granny rolled out of her driveway. Kid had his knee slider on the ground, doing 85 mph, and 50 yards to stop it.

He couldn't stand it up without running into a stone cliff wall, and he t-boned granny. The bike went INSIDE the little car, completely. You had to walk around the wreck to the drivers side to realize the bike was inside the car.

Both people were dead on impact.

Which is why everything you are talking about above better just be theory. Because you ain't good enough to bend the laws of physics and when you do that shit you increase the risk of killing yourself and/or someone else exponentially.

The modern day sport tires allow for more lean angle than the 14 is capable of. The pilot power 2ct has a max lean angle of 51 degrees without compromising grip and sliding, the 14 is not capable of this angle in stock form without touching down hard parts. Even on cold winter days in the high 30's I have never had to decrease my warm day lean angles once the tires are warmed up. Hell with powers even on a cold rainy day I've touched down hard parts.

The biggest key to cornering is smooth, smooth. Smooth with braking and smooth with the throttle. On the street knowing the road and setting up for the corner allowing the greatest sight distance through the corner is also very important.

The difference in riding position between the 14 and my 6 in corners is alot different. With the 6 I can get completely of the seat and way down on the inside of the corner. On the 14 you don't have to be as agressive at getting off the seat, just move one cheek off the seat, weight the inside peg, pull on the tank with your outside thigh and move your upper body down and forward putting your helmet in line with the inside grip ( as stated earlier this allows you to take the corner at the same speed with less lean angle) looking as far through the corner as possible (where you want to go) and even with parts scrapping she'll stay planted in the corner as long as you don't do anything goofy. Hell she even do this 2 up, just ask my wife.

I've had one good slide at the track from over riding my tires and it was all my fault. I had a good entry speed and line through the corner with some major lean, I decided to see if I could increase that corner speed and once my knee touched down as the previous lap I lifted it up and leaned the bike just a bit more. At that point it was too much and I was right at the tire edges lip and started this nice slow slide, I put my knee down a little harder and lifted the bike maintaining my speed and throttle and as soon as she came up just a hair she gripped and pulled back into line. My buddy who was lapping behind me said it was a sweet looking slide. I on the other hand decided that I had reached my maximum speed for that corner with that line and started experimenting with some different entry points.

* Last updated by: heathun on 11/7/2009 @ 4:27 PM *

I can identify with you heathen...on my 6 cornering is much more radical. If you want to knee drag, get a 6R they love big lean angles. You don't have to be as careful accellerating out of a curve either. The intense power is not there.
Yes, a lot of what we talk about is theory. But I'm sure I'm not the only one who tools down a country road pretending to be a racer.LOL But the road is just plain too narrow for sweeping graceful turns. A track is as wide as three country roads and there's no one coming the other way! I'm not looking to drag a knee on the 14, but I love powering smoothly through a curve. My original thought in this thread was just about subtle mid turn correction. There are many elements contributing to rounding a curve and looking up, farther down the road is just one little thing to do. Also trying to look farther down the road will also set you up better for the turn. The farther you can see around the turn the more control you have on a good path of travel.

I enjoy everyone sharing their little secrets (not) about how to survive on this machine that you have to be a little insane to ride!

* Last updated by: Sharkey on 11/7/2009 @ 5:21 PM *

What Heathun said in his last post!

Sharkey the easiest way to make mid corner corections once commited is with the throttle. If you want to tighten up the corner ease off the throttle ever so slightly, if you want to widen it out start getting on the gas.

By easing on or off the throttle in a corner you are essentially changing the front end geometry slightly and causing the result you want. Also it's not that difficult to drag a knee on the 14 you just have to get off a little further than you would on a 10r or 6r.

P.S when I'm talking about coming on and off the throttle thats what I mean. Don't come completely off the throttle or quickly chop it closed.

Looking Farther down the road helps you when riding at a faster pace. It slows your sense of speed down and it doesn't seem as though your traveling along at the pace you are. This also allows you more time to deal when things that arise without being rushed and making poor judgement calls.

* Last updated by: heathun on 11/8/2009 @ 8:11 AM *

Yea, I do that a lot. I've just been trying to avoid backing off on the throttle. It just feels better to continue accelleration all the way through. That's why I'm always pushing myself to get more lean, which sharpens the radius, rather than backing off, or, God forgive, braking. It's so easy on the 6R, I guess its the weight of the 14 that makes me more tentative. But, like you said, it has a lot more lean in it than you think.