Glad you showed up, Kruz. Say, you see a pimple back there? I've been popping in and out of here like my ass was set in ((N)).

who drug this old thread up Hub....I thought it was long dead?

Maybe this guy could help 'ol DEK with dat tune up!

Maybe Dek is really Jeffo

Maybe Dek is really Jeffo

Y'know Monster, that thought actually crossed my mind too..... maybe Jeffo, DEK and Mass are all one and the same......now there's some food for thought!

"Use the phone Luke,use the phone"

Sorry for the double post above, not sure what happen

blue07 wrote:

Use the phone Luke,use the phone"

This advice is for you Monster, do you still have the fouled plugs? Call Jeffo and have him talk to the plugs, they will unfoul and then you can re-install them.... engine should now run fine. Flames are a little more work.....start the engine, note the color of the flames, white, blue, orange etc. and measure how far they shoot out of the tailpipe. Now call Jeffo and give him this information and he will remap your cells over the phone.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 3/1/2010 @ 12:57 PM *

Hahaha guess I am kinda glad this dead thread was brought back to life....thats funny Kruz

you doe doe birds kruz look at the KOTT thread .. i'm calling you out sucka .. i like beating cbr's and zx10's and red zx14's

you doe doe birds kruz look at the KOTT thread .. i'm calling you out sucka .. i like beating cbr's and zx10's and red zx14's

....well like you said, my junk can't hang so what's the point?

scottjkyl,

Since your exhaust decel pop is gone, I'm thinking that your new map is changed in the 3-4K range (?)... maybe way much leaner.

I've lean adjusted my map for that range a number of times and a few waaaay lean, with 0 TP, and the pop remains, and I am thinking that the extra fuel is already in the system when you drop off the throttle... I've also plugged the hose and unplugged it... no differences with the map admustments.

so still looking to figure out the decel pop in the 3K's.

* Last updated by: JDC on 3/2/2010 @ 10:33 AM *

jdc my map is on the lean side up through 20% throttle 40% up i goes a lil to the rich side (at 3000-4000) ill still get a little pop in first and second but not in the 3-4k range i have to really be getting on it up in the 8-9k range and let off the throttle completly but now you can barley hear it nothing like it was before where even at the 3-4k range it was really bad. ill not block my hose until i get my new exhaust hear blocking the hose is not recomended while there is still a cat in the header

JDC, the pop occurs because it is going lean as you back off the throttle to upshift. Under closed throttle and high rpm there is high throttle vacuum (low manifold pressure) in the combustion chamber and under those conditions the flame front or combustion wave travels much slower and is still burning when it hits the hot exhaust.....pop. Ivan attacks this issue with his TRE006A for ZX-14s with flies out (06 and 07 models). The TRE uses the neutral map exclusively which featues no fuel shutoff when backing out of the throttle. This keeps the mixture rich enough for a decent combustion wave velocity and eliminates the pop. It's simple and it works. Everyone who's tried one, that I know of, loves it. You could accomplish the same thing by adding fuel at high rpm and small throttle openings on your map. This will have no effect on normal operation as you don't normally run, let's say 9000 rpm at 10% throttle opening.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 3/2/2010 @ 2:32 PM *

Since your exhaust decel pop is gone, I'm thinking that your new map is changed in the 3-4K range (?)... maybe way much leaner.
I've lean adjusted my map for that range a number of times and a few waaaay lean, with 0 TP, and the pop remains, and I am thinking that the extra fuel is already in the system when you drop off the throttle... I've also plugged the hose and unplugged it... no differences with the map admustments.

I must have tried about 30 different Map combos of my own one summer. The guys on the old forum were saying this could be done with the Map(me no can do)....... Believe me I TRIED, and finally I gave up. With Marble in, with the Marble out. Lean rich, No luck. PAIR system, I know, but it felt like I had eaten about 200 pears with all the banging going on out back lol. A couple of times I thought I had it, but nope. Not to mention all the worry about Air Fuel #'s. I only know of one way to stop the back fire.. The Hack, N lock, default mode, the resistor or Ivans words the TRE. The TRE006A works. How do you fight that. Flames coming, must hide now. Unlesssssss Hub wants to share his new invention ? What you say Hub ? Does your new set up go bang as well?

Everyone who's tried one, that I know of, loves it.

Hub wrote :

Stock ~ Pops
N ~ Pops: You have to have your helmet off to hear it. I can't hear it w/helmet on.
T&N ~ Trans hack with N. I really do not remember? I will have that data soon with the 02 reading the different settings.
L ~ Set in linear chasing mode, that video up the hill with PIP (pic-in-pic) that has no pop when both bikes run through that canyon, then, No.

Linear set overrides all other hacks put in place. Even PAIR is in place and working = NO POP!

Please restate that in plain english so we can make use of your great knowledge. Saying something can be done without saying how is .... useless.

The TRE uses the neutral map exclusively which featues no fuel shutoff when backing out of the throttle. This keeps the mixture rich enough for a decent combustion wave velocity and eliminates the pop.

doe doe bird .. its the excess fuel that pops still dumping in your engine when you get off the throttle ..that what cause's the pop .. but since you don't go to a track and learn nothing about tuning .. man your as bad as jeffo ..tuning from a keyboard .. shooting in the dark.. blind leading the blind .. if you jump they jump ..

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 3/3/2010 @ 5:43 AM *

....well like you said, my junk can't hang so what's the point?

point is lets test some that junk out ..lets beat on the honda you told me it can out roll-on a zx14. i take my 05 zzr1200 bone stock and run you and your honda

it ain't often i come to your back yard to play ..

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 3/3/2010 @ 5:47 AM *

point is lets test some that junk out ..lets beat on the honda you told me it can out roll-on a zx14. i take my 05 zzr1200 bone stock and run you and your honda

I know, I know, you could outrun my junk on foot. That's cool, you win by default.....are we happy now?

* Last updated by: Kruz on 3/3/2010 @ 9:46 AM *

dayum ..welll come watch any how .. you'll learn something from watching ..

you'll learn something from watching ..

Yea, learn how to turn a perfectly good tire into smoke...... in about 8.9 seconds.......

You know I can't say whether heat tuning is any better than any other type of tuning, but I have some observations, when compared to normal AFR/TTD dyno tuning:

AFR/TTD you have a specific goal, which is measurable -vs-

Heat tuning which has, near as I know, not been proven precise nor 'useable' when not compared to a bench mark, say TTD or some other measure.

Seems to me that since a specific static temp measurement (where the temp remains the same) and where the functional AFR range can changes, thus affecting the TTD, temp tuning with that type of variable would also seem innacurate. And so far as I've read around, has not been shown yet to function/work.

It seems possible to tune a bike to a temp, but I'd like to see that shown to have reliability and accuracy over numerous bikes with it also showing to result in the best TTD, while the AFR is ignored. I suspect the temp differences would need to show in the 1/10ths, show a 'same' accurate temp for all bikes... and wanna see the charts showing that over many bikes, as well as the charts when the temps are changed by very small amounts, tuning away from best TTD.

Also, almost everyone I have known that makes a mod to a bike re: engine, intake, exhaust, what-ever, feels the bike is faster, more HP, more TQ through the "butt dyno". In the vast majority of those type of circumstances my sense of those 'gains' were that their bikes were 'flat', and lost power. In one case, when we hit the dyno we saw that the bike had lost 6 HP from the OEM after the mod was done. When tuned for the mods, the bike was about 14 HP higher than OEM. That was a 20 HP with related TQ difference range (post mod to tuned to the mod). His butt dyno could not detect it, and in fact: head pressure + butt dyno = more HP = untrue. Butt his butt dyno said he had more power. A common error.

He did like the 'sound' of the mod, however. When numerous other mod'ed bikes were taken to the dyno, they too had gone flat, lost TTD - in some cases very noticeable of several seconds, and needed to be tuned for the mod/s... almost always to get that last little, or bigger bit. I haven't found comments on the 'butt dyno' very accurate when I read about it - particularly when the final tuned gains have been about 3-4/5 HP or less, related to most mods. It does not take much to throw off the AFR on a bike and poke it down. I think once someone pays for a mod that the head expectation of most mods, and sound or feel differences following the mod, confuses and overcomes the sensors in most rear-ends.

I remember a whole bunch of guys with the M109 that were told a simple air filter change would result in a 5 HP change ( with no tuning). A bunch tried that mod and sure enough butt dyno said they could feel the extra power. Dynos consistenly showed they lost power, until fine tuning for that small change. ... does not take much to throw off the AFR on a bike and poke it down. The 14 is OEM tuned pretty well by Kawa. The M109 less well by Suzu.

I am not saying that when someone buys a map that the bike runs less smooth. Heck, the OEM map for the 14 is simple enough to change and have a 'smoother' bike through the gears/throttle, having a method to flatten the bikes AFR does that, and that can be felt, but the sense of HP increase it is less a function of more actual HP than a function more fluid acceleration.

I would like to see some proof of the heat/temp tuning method.

* Last updated by: JDC on 3/7/2010 @ 6:56 PM *

Good Read, Cheers

Pardon my ignorance JDC but what is TTD tuning? Never heard that one before. I was reading your post with interest and was curious about the temperature method you referenced. In the aviation field we tune by using EGT, exhaust gas temperature. There is a rapid response in EGT as the air/fuel ratio is changed. Cylinder head and especially coolant tempereature react to changes way too slowly to be effective in tuning unless you are operating for a long time under a constant load. A certain "tuner" claims he tunes by coolant temperature, I think it's "snake oil" but that's just my opinion.