Not sure I would compare WSB to our bikes we buy out off the showroom. More comparable would be the Superstock class who are not using slicks.

Haven't read through every thread in this topic but I must say BMW/Kawi/Ducati have raised the bar. I'm curious to see when Honda/Yam/Suzuki are going to follow suit.

I have noticed that there are a lot more Kawi's racing in the Superstock class compared to a couple of years ago when it was BMW that dotted the grid.

Results from today results Superstock class (top 10):

1 S. BARRIER FRA BMW Motorrad GoldBet STK BMW S1000 RR HP4
2 N. CANEPA ITA Barni Racing Team Ducati 1199 Panigale R
3 O. JEZEK CZE SK Energy - Fany Gastro Ducati 1199 Panigale R
4 L. SAVADORI ITA Team Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R
5 L. MERCADO ARG Team Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R
6 J. GUARNONI FRA MRS Kawasaki Kawasaki ZX-10R
7 F. MASSEI ITA EAB Ten Kate Junior Team Honda CBR1000RR
8 A. ANDREOZZI ITA Pedercini Team Kawasaki ZX-10R
9 M. BUSSOLOTTI ITA Rider Promotion by T.Trasimeno BMW S1000 RR
10G. GILDENHUYS RSA BMW Motorrad GoldBet STK BMW S1000 RR HP4

Not sure I would compare WSB to our bikes we buy out off the showroom. More comparable would be the Superstock class who are not using slicks.

Haven't read through every thread in this topic but I must say BMW/Kawi/Ducati have raised the bar. I'm curious to see when Honda/Yam/Suzuki are going to follow suit.

I have noticed that there are a lot more Kawi's racing in the Superstock class compared to a couple of years ago when it was BMW that dotted the grid.

Results from today results Superstock class (top 10):

1 S. BARRIER FRA BMW Motorrad GoldBet STK BMW S1000 RR HP4
2 N. CANEPA ITA Barni Racing Team Ducati 1199 Panigale R
3 O. JEZEK CZE SK Energy - Fany Gastro Ducati 1199 Panigale R
4 L. SAVADORI ITA Team Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R
5 L. MERCADO ARG Team Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R
6 J. GUARNONI FRA MRS Kawasaki Kawasaki ZX-10R
7 F. MASSEI ITA EAB Ten Kate Junior Team Honda CBR1000RR
8 A. ANDREOZZI ITA Pedercini Team Kawasaki ZX-10R
9 M. BUSSOLOTTI ITA Rider Promotion by T.Trasimeno BMW S1000 RR
10G. GILDENHUYS RSA BMW Motorrad GoldBet STK BMW S1000 RR HP4

OK, bottom line, the rr does not steer, the 10r is linear no matter the flash, the rr is heavier, the pings seem to be better managed on the 10r side so we give the ping to the rr? Even back then it was a piece of shit next to an older 10r.

BMW does feel heavier and does handle a bit heavier than my CBR but it also feels more planted and stable at high speeds. I would agree that it does have less front end feel till you get used to it. The Honda has better feel and translates to an easier to ride bike right off. The BMW is a bit of an acquired taste but for me it feels special in a way other bikes don't. I have ridden and love the ZX 10R and my CBR but the BMW feels more special. It has nothing to do with brand to me either. Big lover of Jap bikes in fact and will own a ZX 10R at some point. I'm also one who thinks its a gorgeous bike.

Carab I think the Yami makes a great street bike. Lots of low mid grunt but haven't ridden it enough to speak to top end. Great street suspension.

Jag, well said. I can see what you mean about the acquired taste of the handling/feel/difference dept. That is part of the enjoyment of tasting the country of origin. But here's the thing. Yes, as well designed and executed as it is, it's more like on par with the ape. Temperamental is the ape's ping. Bulletproof has been the `14/R or the pace I put them thru.

Will the ape's ping blow away the 14's? Screen for screen, mode change to mode change is yes. But behind that mode is still watt you have to live with is the physical bike no matter if it was carb'd. Meaning, an improved engine, but at what handling costs? Revamp the front and rear like they did taking the 14 to the R frame?

So if the 10r is the better package, one more hp, lighter, linear, handling up and down the mph range, flat out or kinked over... You tell me? No, never ridden the 10, but if that linear is applied up and down the product line, I can see the difference between the ape and kawi, or siemens vs. mikuni.

Throwing my S1000RR around the track does take some work, nothing like a 600. The BMW will give you one hell of a work out. If it was an all out track tool I wanted the Triumph 675R would be on the top of my list.

The 14 to an R frame is something to get used to, that and the grunt in F1. Stupid me found myself over the line was a hair pin turn I saw on the map, but I was so lucky no cars were coming or I wouldn't be here. I ran into that blind curve on a road I've never been on. I just figured out how nasty that one turn is.

My point?

The ape would not get me there that fast.
The poster I like to use was his duc was nothing coming out of a corner [or going into] like the 14.
The rr is going to be the same disappointment say yes, say no, oh the rr comes on up on top end, no grunt?
The 14 is going to take a breath and swallow up those other torque issues 'yourr lacks.'

Heavy my ass tell me the 14 is heavy. Oh that's right, I've got the bite up and downtown, no offense but do you see me on a clown bike? RR'inn away all slowshitting in some canyawn? I said I said...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz me on any other......... Did you go to sleep on me just now?

Kruz.... I think I would do the same thing in the garage and it would never get old.

* Last updated by: fatsix on 6/30/2013 @ 7:03 PM *

Yes country of origin feel is a very good way of putting it Hub. A Porsche 911 is a great car that handles great and will jar the fillings from your teeth. A (take your pick Jap sports car), will handle very good or great and do it in a gentler way. German bikes or cars to me feel very different. Italian bikes feel very different. British bikes feel very different. Japanese bikes and cars are generally very well sorted out to some would say near perfection. What's left is then for the consumer to decide upon and react to. I for one never got the comments that BMW went the safe route With the inline 4 copying Jap bike, (GSXR) in particular. To me It's always felt very different, thus the reason it's a bit hard to peg. It feels German. Just like the K1300S that is classed with the ZX14. Those bikes feel nothing alike. For my money it was the ZX 14 by more than a little. I really didn't like the K1300S much but somehow couldn't deny it's presence or very cool feel. Getting past lap times, quarter mile traps, and all the other objective track stuff you're left with fun cool choices when riding on the street at 7/10 or a bit more. The only Ape I've ridden was a Tuono and it wasn't my cup of tea but its owner, my friend and avid bike enthusiast told me it took more than a 5 mile ride to "get it." I understand that as that's the case with my S1000RR. All that said If someone had never owned a liter bike before and asked my opinion I'd steer them toward a zx10 or CBR. I equally would find the BMW the hardest bike in my garage to part with because of the feedback it offers every time I get back from an aggressive 200 mile run and maybe a little bit about wanting to tame it. The Honda conversely is sublime, fast and fun but doesn't stir my soul the way the Bimmer does. The ZX 10R gets real close.

[quote][Throwing my S1000RR around the track does take some work, nothing like a 600. The BMW will give you one hell of a work out. If it was an all out track tool I wanted the Triumph 675R would be on the top of my list./quote]

Right and going against the grain of calling the BMW the hard edged track bike is saying that that bit of extra weight and rock solid stability makes it a great street bike.

Oh yeah Hub, you'd be surprised how the S1000RR is not a temperamental bike. Perfect fueling, tons more mid range grunt than you can use and would get you into that hairpin just as quick as the fabulous 14:)

The only Ape I've ridden was a Tuono and it wasn't my cup of tea but its owner, my friend and avid bike enthusiast told me it took more than a 5 mile ride to "get it."

See, that KTM fits the bill. The first bike they threw out was the killer door panel [goodbye] is the panel axed that puppy, if I recall?

Not that it wouldn't be a track bike too. It's more in the hooligan brand call it. Something wheelie prone and darts away at short notice. That's a tall order if we bring the R into it, not the rr. I need the duc guy to ride the rr to tell. That twin is more in the grunt category like the KTM. I don't know if we could show the rr's teeth with the torque the R has in 6th gear.

Wouldn't that R walk away from the 1000? Say 100 mph, someone say go.

"The 14 to an R frame is something to get used to, that and the grunt in F1"...didn't you say it only took you 5 minutes to 'figure out this bike'?.Nah...your little excursion with the center line and all that only shows one thing....you aren't ready for this bike.

Actually...I'm just teasing ya...I'm glad ya kept her upright...I said it before...this bike aint like the others...it'll get yer ass into trouble a lot quicker than ya think....

It would have been nice if you could offer how well your ABS worked it that situation....videos or somethin.;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/30/2013 @ 9:07 PM *

That KTM is a wicked looking bike...I want one!
Weapon number 2 next to my 14...

"but I was so lucky no cars were coming or I wouldn't be here"...yup...I hear ya.You know...mine ended up off the shoulder...and kaboom!ABS might have saved me...if I'd of had it on there=0

Green rarely if ever do I ride TC 1, I am usually on full. How did the power lust get to this...
Man!

You are just a hairy ape Wolf! ;))) and I mean that in a good power hungry kinda way!

* Last updated by: Cblast on 7/2/2013 @ 12:33 AM *

I am beating my chest and holding the lady in the dress with my right palm and climbing the Empire State building with my left hand homie! No offence taken. I left you a shout out on general 14 under the thread shout out to my bros...Check it out!
Wman

Couple of interesting posts from a couple of British writers from, (I think Performance Bike), British magazine.
They have just taken on 4 new long termers and will be modding and evaluating these bikes over the next several months so it will be interesting to hear their first hand accounts. Here are the comments from the first session from each rider for the 2013 BMW S1000RR, (not HP4) and a 2013 Kawasaki ZX-10R.

BMW S1000RR
-"It's the best bike in the world, say's Matt. It really does make every other bike feel like rubbish. And I don't know why but I'm really worried about you ending up in a hedge."
This is the fastest most powerful bike in the world and I'm already a touch anxious without Matt's sage words. But as I head out on my first ride, the bikes so confidence inspiring that I feel immediately at home and any trepidation simply drops away. It ismind bogglingly fast, sharp, and violent like a Zx-10R, but cossetting, flattering and accomodating as a Fireblade.
I love Sport bikes, always have, and S1000RR's riding fashion suits me, or maybe I'm more suited to it after all these years of racing in a crouch. If someone had built a bike specifically for me, I don't think they could have done it better than BMW.
For something as extreme as this, the S1000RR is almost too easy to ride fast. The bike has the wonderful weightless sensation through corners that is, for me, the whole point of riding a motorcycle. It attacks bends with astonishing accuracy in a completely unflusterd way and gets back on the gas with such naked aggression that keeping the front on the ground isn't an option. And the sharp metallic bark as you quickshift through the box is spine tingling and so addictive you have to do it again and again and again. And theres power everywhere; whatever gear, whatever revs, whatever throttle position."

Kawasaki ZX-10R
-"No one makes a sports bike as single minded as this one. Even BMW's S1000RR makes concessions to road use with things like heated grips. A ZX-10R is just about going fast. It has the best handling of any liter sports bike, brilliant electronics and revs like an absolute demon. And it's the bike to have in Superstock Racing.
With over 175HP at the wheel it's explosively fast and while I don't agree with the commonly helf notion that it lacks mid-range, this long stretch with it will either cement my opinion or open my eyes to the uncomfortable truth. It's a bit of a cop out to say the 10R handles like a 600cc supersport bke. However, it does exhibit a lightness of touch and rate of turn not too far away to it's smaller sibling, but a more accurate statement would be that it handles like no other liter bike, especially the way it turns.
I haven't touched the suspension yet, electing to give it and the engine a chance to bed in before fiddling. First impressions are that it feels to soft at the rear and too firm at the front. Elsewhere I've been fiddling with lever and footpeg position to find a place for everything so I can find a place for everything so it's not something I even have to think about while riding. I'm going to try and get out on the track as much as possible on the ZX-10R and get at least one big road trip done. I'm going to carry over all the best mods i discovered on last years GSX R750."

Yo those 1300r's and 1300s' are pure weapons too, no?

Well, say what you will, I'll take Kruz'is few short miles of [his] seat of the pants observation. Seems all these seasoned rag riders conclude to the same thing... Fastest thing since sliced bread, but that peanut butter jelly slam much is not much better, if some edge was where is it?

I'm not going to c&p one more; And ladies and gentlemen, the rr comes in from open practice. They are still trying to massage the front end to steer.

Come on an hurry! Straightened this out, guys! Oh look at the legs on that 10r, boys, we have work to do is load up these piles and lettuce start all over. You mean, we are in the pits more than out on the track? That's WATT I'm saying, hubsteer. Now go sweep up our pit area like we've never been here for the last... No boss, don't mention years. Not to us fork farTTear ween hers, haven't won shit. Lets sweep the management, maybe that will...... Ah shad up and sweep!

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/3/2013 @ 10:55 AM *

Yo those 1300r's and 1300s' are pure weapons too, no?

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I assume you mean the BMW K1300S. If so, yes fast solid bikes but I really have never liked it. It always felt bland to me. I bought the ZX-14R over it and would time and time again.
BTW-having owned a ZX-14R, not sure I would agree the bold statement from above "This is the fastest most powerful bike in the world", but it would certainly be way up there. If he means "liter" bike, I believe he has a case.

BTW-having owned a ZX-14R... not sure I would agree the bold statement... "This is the fastest most..."... but it would certainly be way up there.

No doubt. Never doubtorque!