Move Close
Welcome to zx14ninjaform.com!

You are not logged in.
New Topic Reply
Next Page

Page: 1 2

Previous Page

Thread: Ram Air Facts and Myths

Created on: 09/23/13 09:56 PM

Replies: 37

Smokinzx14


Smokinzx14's Gravatar

Joined: 07/01/09

Posts: 239

RE: Ram Air Facts and Myths
09/24/13 5:40 PM

pressurization ... well if you take the time and add a pressure gauge somewhere in the air box you will find little if any pressurization at any speed . Yes even 200 MPH ,this has been tested by the land speed racers .. Carbs or TBs like to pull dead air , meaning not air running across the Stacks but dead still air ..Kawi claims 10 HP , they don't say what speed it happens but just that it does happen .. The biggest gain is the engine pulling in good clean and cooler air from the front of the bike ..Now there are a few things you can do to make the ram air a bit better .. One plug the water drain holes at the bottom of the ram air tubes .Seal everything like the busa guys do ..Last but not least wrap the tubes with heat shield to keep engine heat off the tubes ..Anything that you can do to keep heat from getting into the air box ( frame ) . Ever wonder why the engine has that big rubber mat on it ? Yes to keep the engine heat off the frame ( air box ) Kawi did a great job with this bike but as we all know you can always make it a bit better ..



2012 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95 ..Stock motor on pump gas ..Updated 8.42@163.95
Brocks Alien Head , P/C with Brocks street map , Brocks / Guhl Flash ..
Brocks dealer , see me for smokin deals on Brocks go fast parts @ ZX1441R.com

Link | Top | Bottom

Grn14


Grn14's Gravatar

Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Ram Air Facts and Myths
09/24/13 9:35 PM

I didn't know the ram tubes had a hole for water drain...interesting.I am a tad curious though...IF the incoming mix is shooting through the venturis...and into the intake...gulping IDK how much per second or millisecond...how are any type of 'harmonic waves' gonna have time to appear and disrupt a smooth fast flow?Once the pistons are moving...aren't they really dictating the amount of air that enters the cylinder?I can't see that whole 'system' having any fat in it.No 'extra' air....I mean...the intake of air is only being moved basically by the pistons,yes?At idle...you don't have any air being forced into the airbox.It only starts becoming 'forced' as speed climbs...which is directly porportional(in a sense)to the piston speeds...right?If it can't get into the piston cylinder..then WHERE is it gonna go?Back out?Slosh over the head?I don't think so.I think as the load is increasing...the pistons are pulling in huge amounts of air...I can't see harmonics (waves)being able to set up and sustain themselves.I don't think the engineers designed this engine with those possibilities at all.I think they worked all that out.I don't think there's any 'shockwaves' occurring anywhere after it enters the filter and heads into the intake ports.The pressure is 14.7....and the head and all that has been redesigned to create a smooth flow regardless of what's entering the airbox.The pistons are calling the shots on the flow volume.

Hell...IDK.That's as much as any of my thoughts go...IDK...I'm thinking out loud with nothing really to back up what I'm saying...take it for what it is...I'm learning..I think...through you guys.I think I CAN say however that Kawasaki doesn't design anything (on these bikes)without having a specific reason behind it.Including how things are shaped,fit together,work in concert with,all that.It's an extremely intricate and detailed machine.Nothing like it out IMO.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/24/2013 @ 10:00 PM *

Link | Top | Bottom

Hub


Hub's Gravatar

Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13801

RE: Ram Air Facts and Myths
09/25/13 7:53 AM

I didn't know the ram tubes had a hole for water drain...interesting.
The exhaust pipes/headers do as well. This is for condensation. We still run thru a fog of droplets, you just don't think about it until you drive thru a cold fog or a cloud laying on a mountain road. So between you riding the bike all hot is the body, the term, 'send it to the barn wet' is exactly what is going to happen: your chambers cool off. I pulled a muffler off the bike, I see this puddle of water sitting on the carbon, just inches from the drain hole. Ever see the spitting around the back of the muffler? That's the water/condensation being pushed out that was sitting there that morning/days sitting. Let the bike idle, it will evaporate and not show as spot out the tip.

... how much per second or millisecond...how are any type of 'harmonic waves' gonna have time to appear and disrupt a smooth fast flow?
Math. Nature is a balanced creature. If there is any imbalance it will be: what valve opened sooner are the two intake valves. Think like this. We have 4 cylinders, 4 processes. So only one cylinder is going to be sucking, the other 3 cylinders are on their compression/power/exhaust strokes. We are watching the one intake open is this stroke. So when we see those two valves beating the seats not equally, but one is getting the shim to pound to who pounds more/less/equally? So no, there is no harmonic wave being that fast and it is going to wait for 3 more strokes? No. Like The Hand said, 200+ boys/girls are watching 14.7 all dead is the air. Makes that needle not move at the fastest speed, no? And HA! Those are 3 air cleaners without ram assist up front = Same effect.

Once the pistons are moving...aren't they really dictating the amount of air that enters the cylinder?

Correct. That which rests in motion and all that. The weak piston is the ring end gap being too wide. That is air lost when sucking is one. So look at that piston ring as one ring only. Look at the gap of 4 CD's stacked up together. See how wide that makes the ring's gap? Now, when the piston goes up or down it leaves a column of air the length of that gap. Now think 2 more gaps that wide are the other rings under that first compression ring. So yes, the piston pull, then to hold what it sucked is not much power to compress either. Catch how that dictates?

I can't see that whole 'system' having any fat in it.No 'extra' air....I mean...the intake of air is only being moved basically by the pistons,yes?
Yes

At idle...you don't have any air being forced into the airbox.It only starts becoming 'forced' as speed climbs...which is directly porportional(in a sense)to the piston speeds...right?
No and yes. Idle, we are 14.7 in the box. 200+ we remain 14.7 in the box is the proportion. That low rpm leave from the light, I suck everything out of that box and yank on the air cleaner. You can see the needle peak, then hear the engine rev to cause it. Then it settles out to 14.7 if sustained in throttle. And open throttle, it eats the ram chamber up.

If it can't get into the piston cylinder..then WHERE is it gonna go?
Do you see how and where? Not head, but in the crankcase.

...the pistons are pulling in huge amounts of air...I can't see harmonics (waves)being able to set up and sustain themselves.I don't think the engineers designed this engine with those possibilities at all.I think they worked all that out.
I think the engineers are stuck with this 4-cylinder setup. Pick any inline, it just repeats itself. So begin counting how many brands have used twins/triples/inline-4/Goldwing-6/Guzzi-V8, see the repetition that one is going to be sucking only? V8-283 had one set of points. It just opened and closed 8-times was one cylinder on the suck.


I don't think there's any 'shockwaves' occurring anywhere after it enters the filter and heads into the intake ports.The pressure is 14.7....and the head and all that has been redesigned to create a smooth flow regardless of what's entering the airbox.The pistons are calling the shots on the flow volume.
The chemical reaction and the friction the air made, you bet your sweet bippee you clap your hands you made air move in a wave. You throw the pebble in the water, that ripple is the wave. Mess with air you mess with the wave, be it sonic or sound.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

Link | Top | Bottom

Grn14


Grn14's Gravatar

Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Ram Air Facts and Myths
09/25/13 10:42 AM

Okay...say there are some waves occurring...do you think they're actually strong enough to interfere with the flow pressure going into those intakes?And just what would they do?I mean...it'd be knida like dropping that pebble into a glass of water...they may be there...but the glass itself isn't going to start vibrating or something,right?I know I'm being 'difficult'...but I can't see how some tiny sonic waves could possibly 'get in the way' of a massive gulping motor that weighs how much?Let alone with it spinning it arse off at any given rpm.


Now you've explained it to me..I can see it somewhat...however...if all the cylinders are creating this 'shockwave'...then hasn't it been designed into the head to have these kinda slam up against each other and cancel each other out as the motor runs?I mean..all this wave action HAS to occur with this hyper flow of air being pulled in at the same time,right?They would have to be extremely powerful to disrupt a flow like that wouldn't they?


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/25/2013 @ 10:46 AM *

Link | Top | Bottom

Cblast


Cblast's Gravatar

Location: Pac Nor

Joined: 03/31/13

Posts: 3507

RE: Ram Air Facts and Myths
09/25/13 11:37 AM

All of the pulses associated with a 1441cc beast are big. The balance of ALL of the pulses, from cam profile, to crank balance to the 'hand-ported and polished' heads, the ram air and it's subtle but valuable contribution, the volumetric efficiency is off the chain! All of it must work in concert. Just a flawless machine. I can't stop falling in love all over again with such a precision bolt of freakin lighting. Gotta echo a little of hubs sentiments. Full on Moto gp bikes may make more power. But is it linear? Where's the torque? Where's the legality drive it to the destination IS the destination. Love this machine.


* Last updated by: Cblast on 9/25/2013 @ 11:39 AM *



14 NATION
Disciple of the 14R
Vincit Qui Patitur

Predator Race Team #23 - Priscilla ~ 118.85 ft.lbs. of TORQUE
Call to get CBLASTED • 360-649-8047
PredatorRaceTeam@gmail.com

Link | Top | Bottom

nasty


nasty's Gravatar

Location:

University of Okoboji

Joined: 04/13/13

Posts: 1657

RE: Ram Air Facts and Myths
09/25/13 5:31 PM

Thanks for chiming in with some solid facts guys, Danno and Smoking!
Your nutz on the money Cblast.
I've got harvest going about full swing and busy as heck. Been neglecting this thread only because I haven't had a free moment last couple days.

But here is a quick link I found today that explains how are ram air has effect. Quick sweet and to the point. Btw Ignore the last two paragraphs as they do not pertain to our system.

Also another thing about the harmonic pulses generated by the intake can be and are effect by the stacks inside the box. Different sizes can tune the torque up and down the scale as well do the cams play off and take advantage this same theory of engineering.


Ram Air


* Last updated by: nasty on 9/25/2013 @ 5:34 PM *



2013 Super Fast SE ZX14R
Forever Fearless

“There's a rebel lying deep in my soul. Anytime anybody tells me the trend is such and such, I go the opposite direction. I hate the idea of trends. I hate imitation; I have a reverence for individuality.”
-Clint Eastwood

Link | Top | Bottom

nasty


nasty's Gravatar

Location:

University of Okoboji

Joined: 04/13/13

Posts: 1657

RE: Ram Air Facts and Myths
09/25/13 5:32 PM

It's all about that volumetric efficiency.


* Last updated by: nasty on 9/25/2013 @ 9:19 PM *



2013 Super Fast SE ZX14R
Forever Fearless

“There's a rebel lying deep in my soul. Anytime anybody tells me the trend is such and such, I go the opposite direction. I hate the idea of trends. I hate imitation; I have a reverence for individuality.”
-Clint Eastwood

Link | Top | Bottom

Bobby914


Bobby914's Gravatar

Location: Chester, VA

Joined: 04/19/13

Posts: 1859

RE: Ram Air Facts and Myths
09/25/13 7:34 PM

lets just cover it up and ride to see a difference compared to uncovered, seat of the pants kinda thing.


* Last updated by: Bobby914 on 9/25/2013 @ 7:35 PM *



Full Muzzy, flies out,K&N, black wind screen, pc3, pm wheels, blue led gauges and lights, scorpip alarm, roaring toyz kickstand and lowering links, tinted turn sigs.

Link | Top | Bottom

Cblast


Cblast's Gravatar

Location: Pac Nor

Joined: 03/31/13

Posts: 3507

RE: Ram Air Facts and Myths
09/25/13 9:24 PM

Yeah yeah yeah, let's see, who can we get to tape that shit off! :))) rofl!!!



14 NATION
Disciple of the 14R
Vincit Qui Patitur

Predator Race Team #23 - Priscilla ~ 118.85 ft.lbs. of TORQUE
Call to get CBLASTED • 360-649-8047
PredatorRaceTeam@gmail.com

Link | Top | Bottom

Grn14


Grn14's Gravatar

Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Ram Air Facts and Myths
09/25/13 9:25 PM

Good read Nasty..;)

Link | Top | Bottom

Bobby914


Bobby914's Gravatar

Location: Chester, VA

Joined: 04/19/13

Posts: 1859

RE: Ram Air Facts and Myths
09/26/13 2:31 PM

LMAO!!!!



Full Muzzy, flies out,K&N, black wind screen, pc3, pm wheels, blue led gauges and lights, scorpip alarm, roaring toyz kickstand and lowering links, tinted turn sigs.

Link | Top | Bottom

Hub


Hub's Gravatar

Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13801

RE: Ram Air Facts and Myths
09/26/13 3:47 PM

I am conditioned to run big air cans, no ram bladders. I did however ride a stock 2010. Big difference in a subtle way. You lose a crispier torque at the bottom you remove the ram effect. Lots of noise is that intake bladder too. That's what I noticed.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

Link | Top | Bottom

Cblast


Cblast's Gravatar

Location: Pac Nor

Joined: 03/31/13

Posts: 3507

RE: Ram Air Facts and Myths
09/26/13 3:58 PM

I love the sound of that intake howl...sounds like a sucking vortex of power. The spooling up hard makes me want to hear the timber change, from 2nd thru 4th that intake howl changes...
5th and 6th is so much wind noise that I lose the subtleties in a quest for warp speed.
I love all of it.


* Last updated by: Cblast on 9/26/2013 @ 4:01 PM *



14 NATION
Disciple of the 14R
Vincit Qui Patitur

Predator Race Team #23 - Priscilla ~ 118.85 ft.lbs. of TORQUE
Call to get CBLASTED • 360-649-8047
PredatorRaceTeam@gmail.com

Link | Top | Bottom


Welcome to zx14ninjaform.com!
 
New Topic Reply
Next Page

Page: 1 2

Previous Page

New Post

Please login to post a response.