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Thread: Front End Seems Busy

Created on: 05/27/20 04:12 PM

Replies: 41

tknj99



Joined: 02/07/18

Posts: 86

RE: Front End Seems Busy
06/01/20 5:01 AM

Yes, although before doing it i searched and read of others on the forum who had as well which gave me the confidence to try. It was actually surprisingly stable once up and i just lifted it about 1" off the ground while holding the handlebar. I did not place anything under the side stand and the wood i used under the header was actually a 1x2 grade stake.

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tknj99



Joined: 02/07/18

Posts: 86

RE: Front End Seems Busy
06/03/20 9:43 AM

So at this point i have adjusted front fork compression/rebound as well as the rear and nothing has really made much of a change including air psi (the bike felt sharpest at 42/42. I also jacked up the front and rear tires and dont see any wobble or high/low spots when spinning or anything else for that matter including issues with the tires which only have 1k miles at this point.. I do continue to see oil residue on my right fork (brake side) but not the left fork. i have read that this can be dirt buildup but i'm wondering if perhaps the front fork oil has degraded. The bike is a 2014 that spent most of its life sitting in a garage as i bought it this March with only 3300 miles on her.. since then i've put close to 1000 miles on her and didnt notice the bumpiness during the first few hundred miles and am speculating that now that its getting more frequent usage the oil fork oil is saying that its had enough.. just a guess here but in any case i have an appointment at a Kawi dealer next tuesday so we hopefully can arrive at a definitive conclusion and get back to riding as the bumpiness is getting annoying to me when riding.

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Front End Seems Busy
06/03/20 10:10 AM

Sounds like suspension still is too stiff.Fork oil change is good though.Did you watch the Dave Moss suspension video?When you compress the frontend holding front brake,is it returning very fast,or more like a milder rise to static.It should be a one second return rate.Not bounce right back up to static.If it's jarring on 'sharper' bumps(like driveway edges)it needs to be softened up some.If you go too far,it will bottom,and you'll hear a clunk as it does.
A very light residue on the forkpistons is normal.If it's noticeably wet,probably is ready for new seals.I've had to replace seals twice already in my 2013.My H2 once.It's got 23K on it.
If it sat as you say,some rubber parts could be deteriorating.What kind of weather was it in?Freezing temps at times?


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/3/2020 @ 10:12 AM *

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tknj99



Joined: 02/07/18

Posts: 86

RE: Front End Seems Busy
06/03/20 10:57 AM

Yes, thats a great video.. The bike previously lived in Pennsylvania so prob a good 4-seasons of mostly sitting. It does appear to bounce back to static position fairly fast.

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Front End Seems Busy
06/03/20 11:41 AM

I set mine just like Dave Moss showed in his video.Same with the rear.Hard to describe 'returns pretty fast'...so I'd just say set it like he did in that vid.If it bottoms on sharper edges,add a bit of preload to it,but not much.Just till it stops bottoming.It's probably not doing that right now.But harshness can be dialed out on these 14's.I think your psi's are okay.Mine is at 41 and 41.Runs extremely smooth.Handles very quick.You could drop a couple psi also.That wouldn't hurt.
If you find it wallowing in faster curves,it's too soft.It should take curves without moving at all side to side.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/3/2020 @ 11:43 AM *

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tknj99



Joined: 02/07/18

Posts: 86

RE: Front End Seems Busy
06/03/20 1:28 PM

I just updated the forks as shown in the video with compression 4 turns out and rebound full out and it definitely rides a bit smoother but that nagging bounciness still seems to be there under 50mph with clutch in or out. I know in the video the guy was like 275lbs, a full 100 pounds more than me lol but i figured what the hay.
Also to add: with me off the bike the exposed fork distance measured 4 3/16" and then 3 1/2" with me on in a seated position (approx 17.5mm sag)
In the end, I'm hoping its winds up being something as simple as the balance being slightly off when i bring her in next week.


* Last updated by: tknj99 on 6/3/2020 @ 5:14 PM *

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tknj99



Joined: 02/07/18

Posts: 86

RE: Front End Seems Busy
06/09/20 5:12 PM

Update: brought her to the dealer today and they confirmed that the front wheel balance is spot on with no issues. They did notice the weeping fork and said I should plan to have that fixed when they have an opening. They also pointed out that the Continental Attack tires I have are not ideal for this bike and said they are too soft for the heavy bike. The tech recommended Battlaxx I believe when they wear out eventually.
So at this point I think the most probably cause of the issue is the front fork oil/seals need to be changed out.
They want $250 for the job which seems like a good price, not sure, but I'll report back when it's done.

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13801

RE: Front End Seems Busy
06/09/20 8:12 PM

This is like a car headlight going out.
This is like a front wheel bearing going out.
Change both at the same time. Call the dealer and have them order another seal. The front end is off, you now should pack/inspect the front end bearings. Yeah, that sounds like a good deal. But say the $250 is more getting the whole front end almost disassembled, get all of it done now. It's cheaper in the long run if you go and have the other seal leak out, here you are again, and the neck bearings have yet to be inspected for the handling problem.

Signed,
NOLTT



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Front End Seems Busy
06/09/20 8:51 PM

I guess I'm not the only one around here that's had seal fails.Twice on my 14,once on my H2.Like Hub said...do both.If one's gone,the other is pretty sure to let go.
When you say 'bounciness',are you talking 'jarring' bounciness,or something smooth?I would say...take out some preload and a bit of compression.Also a bit of rebound.275lb settings will probably get you a stiffer suspension.That guy's on a track.So that's a lot of weight to be trying to keep under control.

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13801

RE: Front End Seems Busy
06/09/20 8:55 PM

Grn, if the oil level drops, more spring exposes itself. Think pogo stick - No oil, bounces more like one.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20856

RE: Front End Seems Busy
06/09/20 10:58 PM

I've used race slicks on mine on the street without any problems. A Conti Road Attack can't be softer than that. I tried 25 psi in my Pirelli slicks and no problem. I got at least 1500 miles out of them although the rear was long past due by then.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Front End Seems Busy
06/09/20 11:07 PM

Okay Hub.Didn't realize that.Thanks;)

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tknj99



Joined: 02/07/18

Posts: 86

RE: Front End Seems Busy
06/10/20 5:43 AM

Yes, I plan on having both fork seals replaced and filled with new oil ($250) and not just the weeping seal. Like mentioned i figured that with the weeping side running lower on oil most likely than the non-weeping seal, it must have a negative impact on the front suspension.
I will inquire to them on the steering head bearings. That sounds like something that may not be an issue at this time but something that is good to do while the front end is torn down as a prevention for future issues.

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tknj99



Joined: 02/07/18

Posts: 86

RE: Front End Seems Busy
08/03/20 4:29 PM

Update: had the fork seals replaced today and was pleasantly surprised with 2 aspects of the job:
1. It cost significantly less than i was quoted. i was quoted $250 which mind you was far lower than some other dealers who quoted upwards of $400. In the end i only paid $160 for the job and it was done under 1.5 hours
2. The handling definitely seems improved now and it feels much more planted in the corners

It still seems like there is a bit of front-end turbulence below 50mph and the only thing left that hasn't been addressed is the front tire. The issue seems less pronounced than before the seals were replaced though and not as big a deal as it was originally. I'm guessing that the bike sat in the same position for several months between when the tire was new in Nov 2019 to when it was sold to me mid-March of this year and perhaps picked up some irregularity or flat spot as a result.

On another note, it rained pretty hard on the ride back and its so much better than previous non-fairing non-windscreened bikes and i got only lightly wet in some areas vs being completely soaked im sure if i had been riding my former chopper. Also, its 10x faster to clean up than former cruisers which were a nightmare to clean after a rain ride; with the R its a quick dry down and shiny as new :)

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20856

RE: Front End Seems Busy
08/03/20 8:33 PM

Cool!



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Blkcasper


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Location: California

Joined: 10/28/12

Posts: 766

RE: Front End Seems Busy
08/20/20 9:55 PM

Hey guys what's up. I haven't been here in a while and I have been reading this thread. One other thing to look at is the age of the tires. if they are older than 3 years old even if the tread look good the rubber deteriates and goes bad especially if sitting for long periods of time. I would try changing them. It could be most of your problem.



Luvin My ZX14R'S.

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20856

RE: Front End Seems Busy
08/21/20 5:10 AM

Hey there Cas. Long time no see.
I was reading a thread I believe on hayabusa.org. If you check with tire manufactures, you might be shocked at how long they consider a tire to be good. One owner recently reported the manufacturer allowed up to 6 years. I would not be doing any fancy riding on motorcycle with a six year old tire. On the other hand, I have had tires on my cars for for 11 years and they work up to the end.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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