That's the one I started watching at work today. Been so busy at work I got Interrupted 3 times and never even got through the first one... Going to try to watch those and the other one I found later tonight.
BTW.. Don't forget to set DVR's for Moto GP France Sunday morning at 0 dark:30...

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Between the replys I've gotten and the YouTube videos I feel a lot more confident I can do good with adjustments..
Can't wait to go through the canyon tomorrow and see what the zip tie drops to and do a little pushing and bouncing on it.
Going to try and follow Hubs order of ops Monday at work with a co worker and tape measure...
Got really fired up after watching some videos...

Thanks again

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Assist

* Last updated by: Hub on 5/19/2013 @ 1:16 PM *

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Thanks Hub... I watched all three parts last night and the biggest part that confuses me is what he was seeding and describing and his reasoning for letting up a lot on the rebound. I get that the looser setting on rebound would make the bike return back up quicker but that would also make the bike prone to lifting off any bump right?
Also make the front lift under acceleration? Maybe I'm over thinking it...

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The Basics. Watch Teaz leave, but more, watch the daylight between the tail and top of the back tire. That's a perfect squat = Like the bike left without the back end dropping lower, but looks like it went static all the way out of the gate. So the basics are what Brock mentions as he exaggerates the clicks to see what they do? The compression hardly moves and the rebound is so fast, they both dial in the ripples, bumps, plants the chassis flat so no wheelie transfer [is] the happening.

The squat video is more like setting the soft clicks so you get to the static faster. But not so many clicks a little body move will pogo the count. Make sense? Because once your weight stabilizes the shock inside, there is no more fluid being pushed, right? Then the other part is back to having the back wheel on the ground. Why? it's lower to the ground to 'hand squatesting like Brock washowing.' Take the seat off. Why? That's more lowering of the push down, no seat rip, no plastic bust chasing the 3 ways I'd be pushing down on something. Your choice on the other 2 examples.

Same goes with the front end. You want to watch the action come up, sense it go down. If you become good at it, you can get a hand feel with the ride feel and sense if you can out Moss Man, pushing to press both front and rear as a unit. Both should follow each others plushness. You don't want the front to wait for the rear, nor the rear to wait for the front to settle. See that idea about even static: on the push down?

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Will look closer and further into this..
You're the best Hub! Thanks!

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And where Moss said that static is street, not race. Race is to crank it up hard which cancels out sag. And where Moss says the oil gets thin the older it gets? So adjust for thin? According to the way I see oil heat up, I've see a car come in the dealer, never changed the oil for the first 32k miles, let alone check the level. I think it went all thick as crude and clung to every part inside that engine.

So if theory says heat/old/thick is seen in my experience about oil, I'd have to disagree with the thinning part. I'd click loose for thicker oil moving in the old stroking there of.

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Thanks Hub... I get that the looser setting on rebound would make the bike return back up quicker but that would also make the bike prone to lifting off any bump right?
Also make the front lift under acceleration? Maybe I'm over thinking it.

YW. Are we thinking in reverse? Rebound is down. Compression is up. So the return is to come back [Down] quicker. Lifting off bumps is where compression comes in. I want to compress the fork over the bump so the rebound comes back like I ran over the rock or bump on the road like a tank track. I just roll over it like it wasn't there.

That's how fast I want to come up over the bump and how fast I want to go back down back to even road. So I am even with the compression in a way. In a way, you are chasing, 'for every compression there is an opposite and equal rebound.'

Sort of see the basics of it? It's a compromising game. There is so much compression and so much mix with rebound, it's the subtle clicks and spring action off the wire wounds.

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Driving at the moment... In my head rebound is the fork getting longer right?

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Oh oh oh... Rebound would be returning from droop back to static...
I don't know what I was thinking... Ok.. I think we're officially on the same page now..
I was thinking it more basic..
Ok.. Now I have to go back and re read a bit and re watch the Vids...
Thanks for waking me up (assuming I actually am on the same page)
... Will get back to you once I have time to re digest this with my head straight.

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In my head rebound is the fork getting longer right?

Correct.

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Ok

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I was thinking about your oil thickening over time theory.
I think that is definitely possible. I'm assuming tho that if oil was in the engine for 32k miles that would be a lot of carbon introduced into it and as the oil burned away and at the same time was being force fed carbon from a most likely less than sealed piston rings it would get dark and sludgy.
I was always under the understanding that oil does in deed break down over time especially in motorcycles with married transmissions due to all the straight cut gears mashing against each other.. I would have to guess tho that the shocks don't have that slamming together abuse toward the oil.. Only a straining effect maybe from cycling through the washers of the valving?.. And some heat depending on the riders aggressiveness.
Sound logical?

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So Hub.. What your saying about static and getting back to static quickly leave the bike ready for the next road inconsistency?.. Your also saying the importance of returning to static that is where the spring itself wants to be so it should help make up for the lack of damping/rebound for the instance before the fluid starts moving?.. I like how you explain things.. Examples of why on top of what to do..
I can't wait (this weekend I never even touched the bike preparing for an out of state family visit) to get cracking on some of these adjustments.. I think the more your info sinks in and the more I see the videos to reinforce the info the more apt I am to do it right with less tries and actually know why I am doing what I'm doing.
This is great!..
BTW Hub.. Are you a mechanic by day?.. Motorcycles in particular?. You've got this stuff pretty dialed and explain yourself well...

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I wanted you to try mine but my bike wasn't ready during the motoGP weekend and I won't be able to make it to Arkansas but let's know what you think. I think I'm a pretty sensitive rider but lots of people think it's a placebo effect. My suspension are tailored and I haven't been working out and lost 20LBS, I can tell the difference big time. The fact that I high sided was due to that my opinion: The shock was too stiff, so when I got back on the throttle it didn't even compress-Dragking

Well, it didn't work out getting to ride my buddy's re-suspended bike, but I did mess with mine a bit. It felt a little wallowy with the bags loaded on the way down, but I figured taking them off would bring it back to square. WRONG! After a check of my tires following a 260-mile loop on Friday revealed smaller chicken strips on the front than the back,(Never did that before!), guys following me agreed that the rear was squatting in the turns, which everyone theorized was causing a raked-out attitude, slower steering and the resultant tiny front strips.

So first thing Saturday, I borrowed a hammer and a long screwdriver (no fuggin' remote preload adjuster on a $15K machine?) and cranked on anothar 1/2" worth of thread on the adjuster. Seemed to steer better, not tend to run wide so much and was still fairly comfortable.

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Believe it or not...this bike is VERY sensitive to velocity and aerodynamics.You really can feel the bodywork kicking in once the MPH's start climbing.Becomes a very different handling bike IMO.If you can find the 'sweet spot' for your particular weight and avg riding speeds....then it's just some fine tuning.I found the 'wallowing' to decrease with adding some preload...yes...like you did Danno.But it can cause a harder ride if ya go too far with it.I've tried a lot of different settings over the years I've ridden 14's...all with stock suspensions.There's a fine line between 'firm and planted' opposed to 'feels 'almost' right'.And velocity has a HUGE amount of influence in it all.That's(to me) what makes it hard to get it actually dialed in for an average acceptable range of riding.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/19/2013 @ 8:36 PM *

(Never did that before!), guys following me agreed that the rear was squatting in the turns, which everyone theorized was causing a raked-out attitude, slower steering and the resultant tiny front strips.

I don't feel like my rear is squatting but I have the same problem. I will see what my suspension guy says when I get a hold of him Tuesday!

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"but I have the same problem"....what problem?Chicken strips on the front?If you're leaning that far to grind that front all the way to the edge....BE CAREFUL!!!!!Closest I got was about an inch,maybe a bit less.I don't know WHAT turn caused it....or when actually.Or even HOW.These aren't track tires....but you sure don't want the front getting light or high exiting a turn.I mean...if you're into wheelying out on the exit...fine...you already know what to do.Anyone here have pics of their 'street' front tire worn to the edge?On the 14?I've seen ONE pic a long time ago.Maybe I'm full of shit...but I'm not so certain this bike CAN be leaned in that far without something going BYE BYE.On a flat curve....who can say the radius it takes to get around it and tipping the bike in to that kind of lean angle to get the front scrubbed?I'd like to see it...or someone doing it....

My guess it'd take a LOT of speed to get er leaned in THAT far,and a pretty good(tighter) radius.Both which may be too much for these street tires.IDK.Something like 51 degrees of lean on the 14 to reach max lean.You won't get that on any old turn....besides...there are SO MANY variables involved in getting that kind of wear on there anyway.You simply can't just go on any turn and get that(wear)(lean).

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/19/2013 @ 9:10 PM *

Grn14.. I was quite surprised to see my front tire worn down to prob 1/4".. I don't feel like a leaned that far over and it was on both sides.. Maybe because I dropped the psi about 5 f/r at the track .. This being on Pilot Road 3's.. We're you referring to street tires as a Sport Touring or long mileage?..
Since I'm pretty new to the whole handling and adjustments I won't even guess how I have even wear patterns front and rear.. I think Dragking may have done the same thing?.. Without reading my other threads I don't remember who said what right now... I just want to feel what "planted" feels like amongst other key traits to how the bike is feeling front and rear.. It's hard for me to picture telling that the front feels "loose" without it letting go.. It's easy in a car.. Fronts loose it slips/pushes.. No fear no foul.. NOT how I want to figure it out on a bike...

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Ya...I hear ya.I'm not the best one really to add to this thing...Everyone rides different...lowing your PSI I would think would definitely give your tire a greater flex in turns...which would naturally wear more along the side....Yeah...I could see a guy getting it worn all the way over...and maybe not in such extreme conditions either.

My experience has been....street tires...41 PSI front/back...and the 'fastest' I've taken a turn to date is right at 145.I didn't want to lean any further than I was...though I probably had a bunch left....I didn't want to chance it.And I've right now got about a 1/2 inch on the front that isn't worn.Same as on the rear.So really...IDK.I feel my suspension is set fairly well for my weight.I did follow that set of videos from that guy tuning that green zx(OTT).The settings are a bit different for my 14R...but pretty similar.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/19/2013 @ 9:38 PM *

230 lbs over here!
Thanks for the vid and details!

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That's the best I've ever done!... Or closest I've been to losing the front.. Depending on which way you look at it.. Lol.. Sadly this is my 10th 2 wheeler and the first bike I've ever touched any suspension adjustments.
aside from the gsxr1100 which had 4" sticking out the triple clamp and the rear spring removed.. Although it was fun to sit on it wasn't able to do pretty much anything else... Like go up my driveway. I had bought it like that.

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I was thinking about your oil thickening over time theory... assuming tho that if oil was in the engine for 32k miles that would be a lot of carbon introduced into it...
Sound logical?

You know, that did not cross my mind. What I was theorizing was that you cannot create or destroy matter. So both gas and oil come from distilled crude and they are broken down as weights of that substance. So whatever drips down from the crude's vapor is this content. Whatever is heavy at the bottom is this paraffin bearing grease. My thought was reading some long ago trivia about processed matter into heroin and returning back into afgan poppy the moment you shoot it up. So heated out, worn out crude, churned like butter crude is me just guessing it hardens up again.

What your saying about static and getting back to static quickly leave the bike ready for the next road inconsistency?

Exactly. All that physics chasing for one move over tearain you be crying chasing it or it comes to you easily is the theory.

Your also saying the importance of returning to static that is where the spring itself wants to be so it should help make up for the lack of damping/rebound for the instance before the fluid starts moving?.. I like how you explain things.. Examples of why on top of what to do

I'm just watching the action if I slow down the precess, know who is hole and who are stacked washers doing what? Can you tell who is hole and who are the stackers? That's when you send in the rods with the washers and they stack harder/softer shims for the blow-off. Yeah, those kind of parts is [special] parts.

I think the more your info sinks in and the more I see the videos to reinforce the info the more apt I am to do it right with less tries and actually know why I am doing what I'm doing.
This is great!..
BTW Hub.. Are you a mechanic by day?.. Motorcycles in particular?. You've got this stuff pretty dialed and explain yourself well...

Yes, specifically bikes. They seem to have the same basic parts. So it is a matter of using the generic as if building a puzzle from scratch. Once you know the basics it goes much deeper, more complicated. That's the art of tuning either the chassis or engine.

Looks like you'll pick this up fairly quick. You've got the knack for it. Thinking out that carbon blowdown is that of a thinker/processor/step by stepper. Have fun at the clicks and winds. I'm going to try a spring round for some plushing. If you are going to run a lot of clicking and winding up/down, I'm a little more anal at it. I'll take that blue wall paint tape, contact clean the sockets, tape the [fork] spring's head, tape the inside flats of the socket and now I think I have enough toilet paper stuffed up there so as not to mar the finish.

And I may have gotten it wrong with the driveway top out, not bottom out. That shock spring is not even compressed over that hump, so the quick shock [pun] of it may more sound like a top out.

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That's the best I've ever done!... Or closest I've been to losing the front.-ItsPaul

Mine were half that after Friday's loop, which was a bit of an eye-opener since normally they looked like yours. When I loolked at the rear, I expected to see zero unused tread surface, but they were about the same.

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I think I have found the answer to my issue. My front tire looks like Paul's but the rear has huge strip in the back (about 3/4 of an inch). The good news is that, it seems that for every half inch on the rear tire, the front loose 1/4 so if I lean further the rear should catch up to the front!
I googled the topic and most sources claimed that the phenomenon was a result of tire profile and rear suspension being to high. It makes sense because I have lost 20LBS and the rear shock was stiff to begin with so it could be that I have not enough weigh to compress it to its ideal working range.
front tire strip

From what I have read, if front and back chicken strip are about the same, you should be ok.

@itsPaul: Do you have a pic of the rear?

* Last updated by: dragking on 5/20/2013 @ 5:35 PM *

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