HUH?...no abs?...my bad...;)...just looked on the website...2013 MetallicSparkBlack/GoldBlazonedGreen...shows abs on there.Nothing showing non abs in that color....am I wrong here?

I nearly wrote that in my reply that "not all SE editions have ABS". As far as I can tell there are non-SE versions that come with ABS too. I thought that might seem condescending, cause I wasn't sure you were saying you thought my bike had ABS. I thought maybe you meant more like "if you had abs your rear tire wouldn't lock up", which is true ftmp (for the most part)

so now that yo get this, does my rear pedal seem right to you? 1/3 turns no braking, 2/3 10% (barely applied), then the rest of the 10-100% in the last 3rd of pedal? I'm going to bleed them tonight. Good night to do it.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 8/30/2014 @ 4:43 PM *

Well...having stock pads MAY explain why they feel a tad 'softer'.You may see a nice difference with an upgrade...although the factory pads really are very good...perhaps a different feel though.Not sure with the 14R IF you want a grippier pad on the rear....maybe not;)I would however see about getting an abs system(factory)...unless ya just don't feel ya need it.May be well worth the extra dolorez.You would need an abs ECU though...so that would be around 650 bucks...not to mention the abs system as well.The sensors are already on there.Gotta say...abs is VERY comforting;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/30/2014 @ 5:17 PM *

I wouldn't say it's the pads in my case. Here's my issue. To get any braking at all I have press the rear brake down very far, as said currently 2/3s. You're not really thinking about what this means?

So when i get to final 2/3s of rear travel, 90% of the braking range is in that final 1/3rd of the travel. So to get any brake I have to press it down pretty hard. Normal braking this isn't an issue. Emergency/panic braking this is a severe issue. It makes it very hard to be so precise as to depress it exactly 83.33% to get 50% rear braking pressure in an emergency situation. Does this help make sense?

Ok, gonna go bleed the rear lines now...bbl hopefully can test tonight (suppose to rain later). Gonna make a how-to video while doing it. I'm really guessing this is the issue. As I say, the front brakes are perfect, I don't have one issue with them at all, normal or emergency braking. The rears feel NOTHING like the fronts (I mean literally NOTHING).

Vic. There are a couple of other things to take into consideration. The rear brakes also work in conjunction with the traction control system. Not sure what mode you ride in? Contrary to popular belief, even with it turned off the traction control system is still working to some degree.
Also when braking hard with the front brake more weight is transferred to front end also taking weight off rear wheel also effecting grip and braking abilities.

Example. 90% of the time I leave mine set to 1. When riding hard on some of my favorite twisty roads , rarely use the rear brake. 99% of the time using a lower gear for engine braking and front brake only. Get to the next rest point and always do a quick look around the bike for any issues. Like tire wear, temp ect. And my rear wheel has been covered in brake dust. Im like wtf? Ok so i wipe off wheel. Do next section of the ride. Brake dust again.
No indication on display that traction control is being activated. Only thing I notice is eco mode on display changes depending on how hard im pushing. I've adjusted my rear break level to where I can run upto about 40-50 mph press pedal hard slowing down the bike but no wheel lock up.

I'm an urban rider

bled rear brake. fluid looked good (slight yellow), but nothing like the clutch fluid Which was cloudy and green (both indications of contamination). I still bled it, the fluid in the reservoir and caliper were more yellowish than that in the lines.

Taking it for a test ride, I'm not really sure this made too much difference, maybe a little, but nothing as drastic as for the clutch issue. But I won't really know until I get out and ride it harder. I'm not too optimistic considering some 30-40 mph braking test.

I'm aware of basic riding principles like weight transfer, this isn't my first motorcycle. I've always rode pretty aggressively, and it's not uncommon for me to be skipping the rear tire on hard stops. I frequently practice panic stops at intersections when it's safe to do so (no cars behind or ahead of me). I'm also aware that KTRC OFF mode isn't truly off (although flash can fix this). More nanny state BS.

Not sure how long you've been riding, but it's not uncommon for people that have been riding only in the last 10 years to know how industry initiatives have changed over time. We were recently discussing 600 class sportbikes. Some of the better riders here weren't aware of how much 600s have changes since, say the 90s. Every generation of rider has different experiences with equipment. I recall in the late 90s manufacturers transitioning to desensitizing the rear brakes to try to reduce loss of control incidents. I believe that's the situation here.

With my Honda I knew I didn't have to jam the rear brake pedal to get some rear braking. This isn't to say I never locked up the rear tire, or skipped it. With this bike, I have no choice to get any rear brake I basically have to jam it. But that's the way it's designed, apparently for the lowest common denominator. I'm beginning to understand why a lot of you are saying you don't use the rear brake, it is horrible. We all have paradoxical moments in life. This is one of those. Basically I'm going to have to reconsider my braking strategy to incorporate the modern approach to rear braking.

I don't know what type of material is used in the rear OEM pads, maybe you could experiment with some different pads and get the feel your looking for. I run cheap organic pads on the rear of mine just so they won't be to grabby.

wfozx14

16,000 miles of stop and go traffic? Buy a gps and go explore a little, there's got to be some great places in your area where you can get a little better than 50 miles in two hours.

Most of it yes. Check out a couple of my ride videos. That's about the best I can do as far as curvy ...(for lack of a better term) roads. short bit here, short bit there. Mostly commercial areas. I live in farm country, roads are basically gridded. There's quite a few roads that have some potential but are poorly maintained and would be severely dangerous and extremely uncomfortable to ride on (I try them once). Just north of work is a great little stretch of road. It's lined with farm houses every so often but not much traffic. The unfortunate thing is it's chip n seal. When i see it on google maps I nearly shed a tear it would be that fun.

I live in Fort Wayne Indiana. Feel free to send me some google map images of roads you think look fun. Most likely I'll already know about them. 100 mile radius there are no mountains. There's lakes have some interesting roads around them. But also mostly residential areas and lake traffic. I'm still going to check some of them out, might find a tasty bit of road which is what I basically do now.

RktSled lives in the same city, I think I may take more risk in where I'm willing to push it cause around where he lives I find tidbits here and there to get my lean on. As far as some of the videos you see with dozens of riders blasting around mountain roads with no traffic or houses for miles and miles, nope nothing like that around here at all.

But this all isn't really the point. The point is 16,000 mmiles of mainly urban experience is much more difficult to survive in than someone who rides 100 miles a day in the middle of no where commuting to work. not all mileage is the same. Hell just look at cars. Would you rather have a car that has 16,000 city, or 16,000 highway miles? Damn straight, city driving is lot hard on everything.

I don't know what type of material is used in the rear OEM pads, maybe you could experiment with some different pads and get the feel your looking for. I run cheap organic pads on the rear of mine just so they won't be to grabby.

Yeah, I'm either going to have to really watch rear braking or switch pads or something. This sounds about right. What brand/model of pads you using?

"I run cheap organic pads on the rear of mine just so they won't be to grabby".....LMAO!!!'not too grabby'...yeah,put some on my 2012 one time...within 10 minutes they had melted and actually were stopping the wheel from spinning!!!!Hard to believe,I know...but gospel truth right there.Had to turn around and get back and put my used ones on there again until a new set arrivedLOL!!!Friggin MELTED!!!!NEVER seen anything like it before or since;)The fronts were okay...kinda...but that rear one...OMG!

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/30/2014 @ 9:59 PM *

Vic just to give you a lil back ground. I'm 52 and have been riding for more years than I care to differenceber. I log more than 10k street miles a year. Most of it in California citt traffic. 4 lane congested traffic where it takes you hour most days to travel 15-20 miles. I live qbout 2-3 hours from Yosemite. Some of the. Sweetest urban county's back Mountain roads to travel on. About 1.5 hour ride to the coast roads from san Francisco to Monterey.
Ive got over 27k on my zx14 in 2 years. My 06 zx10 has over 50k miles in less than 6 years. .got it in 08. With 6k on it. Last 3 years put 30k on the streets over 30 track days. Here in California we can basically ride 90% of the year with the rite gear. My 99 zx9 had over 80k on her when I sold her after owning her for 10 years. And yeah I keep up on all the latest tech. I'm no expert, but I would say I know a few things about bikes. I do 90% of my own maintenance. Be cause I had to, needed to learn, want to know all I can. No way can I have my bikes in the shop or the exta expense. Ok rant over. Just trying to help ya out man. And yeah those miles in congested traffic finally caught me out. There always accidents, freway work, driver's doing all kinda weird shit behind the wheel.

One other thing you can try is to adjust the brake lever feel if you haven't already done so. There is an adjustment screw on the master cylinder plunger to adjust pedal pressure required to operate brakes.

I like useing ebc hh sintered pads. A little griper than stockers. Will somtime make some squeaking noise.
I personally don't or have had an issue with the rear brakes. I have adjusted them for the feel I like.
80-90% of my braking is done with the front. Panic stops, 2 up riding, down hill mountain roads, I use both. Hope some of this helps get your problem sorted out.
ohh if you haven't already done so get your suspension setup correctly to your weight. Will make a difference

* Last updated by: Blkcasper on 8/31/2014 @ 12:25 AM *

Any of those 16K on the track? And riding is riding, if you're not surviving urban traffic you're dodging deer in the mountains.

* Last updated by: Auron on 8/31/2014 @ 7:50 AM *

I can't imagine that every time your ABS activates that it's just saved you from a crash. If that were the case there'd be none of us left to post here from riding bikes that never had it.

Especially if yer 'testing' itLOL!!!

Any of those 16K on the track? And riding is riding, if you're not surviving urban traffic you're dodging deer in the mountains.

I have it double worse around here. We have tons of deer too. So everything you're dealing I'm dealing with X2. I deal with dogs, cats, squirrels, possums, raccoons, bicycles, pedestrians, geese, birds, horses (amish), horse shit, goose shit, lawn clippings, people mowing, etc too.

State Farm conducted a study on deer collisions. Is your state on the list? Mine is.

1. Pennsylvania
2. Michigan
3. Illinois
4. Ohio
5. Georgia
6. Minnesota
7. Virginia
8. Indiana
9. Texas
10. Wisconsin

I can't imagine that every time your ABS activates that it's just saved you from a crash. If that were the case there'd be none of us left to post here from riding bikes that never had it.

Going around with some pro-ABS nut on another forum at this same time. He thinks ABS will save everyone because he sited some studies that said it made a difference 42% of the time or something. He keeps asking me to justify how I claim that ABS has very little impact on overall motorcycle accidents. See, in his (small) mind he's only thinking of braking related accidents.

But what about:
Rear-end collisions? Nope, ABS ain't doing dick for you on these
Rider misjudges a turn and is riding too fast? nope not doing a whole lot for you there (abs isn't capable of changing the physical limits of grip).
Equipment failures? Not likely. For example chain comes off or breaks.
Someone turning left in front of you (most common cause of accidents)? Not likely. I suppose it might keep you from locking up your tires as your becoming the new hood ornament. But preventing the accident, nope, ABS can't stop your bike in 20 feet from 30mph just as standard brakes can't.
Intoxicated riding? Small chance of making a difference, but probably not.
...

For WWRs, I think ABS would pay dividends to have, and that's mostly just because it would make the bike easier to control in common slippery conditions not that it would really reduce accidents. For dry weather riders, yes 1 out of 10 potential for an accident to occur situation it might have some impact on the outcome.

Vic, you should consider doing some track time on a smaller bike. I think it's probably the most important thing you can do to prevent a crash.

Vic, you should consider doing some track time on a smaller bike. I think it's probably the most important thing you can do to prevent a crash.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 8/31/2014 @ 11:04 AM *

BTW also, had a chance to ride a little today, but aborted due to sprinkling. I do think there is just a tad more brake pedal on the rear now. I might be able to hit it about 1/2 and get a little braking.

"(abs isn't capable of changing the physical limits of grip)"...I see what you're saying here...BUT...being able to hard hit those brakes CAN actually change a gripping situation...whereas...skidding would make it worse..I still think I could have saved my 2012 in that curve crash had it had ABS.I think just the knowledge of it being there can help a rider in a tight spot.Misjudgement on braking force has caused a lot of wrecks.The abs will cut that down most definitely.

BTW...my state isn't in that list....go figure;)There's deer and all the above here all the time.I can't go ride without seeing several carcasses along the road...roads I ride

Blk wrote:"Vic. There are a couple of other things to take into consideration. The rear brakes also work in conjunction with the traction control system". Now this I suspected,but wasn't sure.It does make sense though.HOWEVER,I don't think Vic's bike is linked at all with an ABS circuit or TC.So his back brake probably is a standard braking unit.I still think a pad replacement would be a good starting point for 'better' brake feel.

That rear brake on any of these monsters goes from grabbing to skidding in a heartbeat.Unless a guy has time to apply braking BEFORE he's in an emergency situation...the likelihood of instinctively applying the brake hard is what usually happens...with the attendant skid and loss of control.Don't ask me how I know this

I actually installed a 2012 ECU(non abs)into my 2013 ABS model...no worky.Not the abs anyway.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/31/2014 @ 7:09 PM *

LMAO!

"joe-joe- the idiot munchkin, here!

You might slow down and think about what you read before you respond with name calling.

I did not call you names nor did I insult you in any way that I can tell; but thanks for the not extending the same courtesy just the same.

Fort Wayne isa big city I know. I also ride "urban" and somehow in my commutes I have racked up many times 16,000 miles. Nevertheless, that comment was not meant to bruise your ego.

I see no point in continuing this "conversation"; best of luck to you and your urban riding career.

Cheers

Also, I asked you if your state was on that list?

I'm right there at the top... f*cking antlered rats.

I second your frustration though: my last scooter had ultra responsive rear clamps. The ones on my Ninjee are vestigial.

I've replaced the pads on my front axle twice. My rear pads could be ultrasonically cleaned and put on fleabay as brand new.

"joe-joe- the idiot munchkin, here!

You might slow down and think about what you read before you respond with name calling.

Awww poor baby. Maybe it's you being inconsiderate?

Frankly, I'm guessing you don't even believe me. And hell, this is the Internet, people lie all the time. I'm a safe rider, and my record proves that. I also go out and run it hard, lean it over, and push it pretty far. I have a lot to compare myself to. I had a group of 20 friends that I knew. Only 3 of us never had accidents my first 3 seasons of riding. We all often road together, and all rode in similar conditions. One of the accident-free riders didn't ride much, and also wasn't much of a risks taker (one of the boring people to ride with...you know the types).

I have this forum to compare to. There's about 15-20 active posters here. Around 1/3rd of active posters have had accidents this year alone.

You pulled the douche move, belittling 16,000 miles of accident free operation like it's nothing. I'm sure there are riders with more miles of accident free experience. I never claimed I was the most safest rider to ever exist in all of history. Maybe you're one of these people, maybe you're not. My guess is probably not which is why you take offense.

For now, I remain accident free. The old biker saying, "it's not if, it's when." I never put too much stock into this type of BS.

grn/hagrid/auron

Happy to report although it didn't initially seem like it, the rear brake is better now. I'd still prefer a tad more mid-range pedal, but I get some breaking before 2/3rds travel. Rode pretty hard a few places today (see video) and never had a single lock up issue! Goddamn I love this bike...FUCK it's awesome! Handles great, transitions very well, damn it's like a drag racer and sports car in one package!

Vic's Rides - Sept. 1, 2014 (Labor Day)

YOU MEAN THAT THE BRAKES CAN STILL LOCK-UP WITH ABS

Feel free to send me some google map images of roads you think look fun