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Thread: Scraping exhaust need advice

Created on: 07/17/10 01:14 PM

Replies: 38

Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
08/13/10 6:26 PM

The scratch marks are consistent with the direction of travel,and at the lowest points on a seriously leaned bike.14 or not.I think he scraped in a lean.Hauling azz most likely.The color of the scrapes indicate high heat.A quick,hard smack to the pipe and spring.Do the lean over(I would) just to see how close you'd come to hitting at that angle.That might tell ya if the suspension was too soft or somethin?42 psi cold wouldn't hurt either.It doesn't look like the back wheel broke loose,but MAYBE a smidgen?Any wear marks on that rear tire wall?

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21235

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
08/13/10 6:41 PM

It doesn't look like the back wheel broke loose,but MAYBE a smidgen?Any wear marks on that rear tire wall?
I have felt it slide a wee bit on two occasions in a corner but that was a while back. I think that was cold roads both times.

I do keep the tires aired to spec most of the time. I have let them go down to 35 lbs just to try a softer tire for grip. No abrupt wear marks on the rear tire. This summer I lost the CS's. Yippy!!! kind of like losing your virginity LOL!! (well not even close to as good, to be honest but every bit as quick!!!!)


* Last updated by: Rook on 8/14/2010 @ 7:35 AM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Rook


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Posts: 21235

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
08/14/10 3:21 PM

I used the solo method of measuring sag. You use a zip tie on the fork for the front and a piece of cardboard taped to the undertail and a pen stuck in the axle for the rear. I think it is probably quite accurate but I would rather have someone measuring with me on the bike.

Here's what I came up with --

Rear Sag: 15.88 mm

Front Sag 40.48 mm

If ideal street riding sag is about 30-35mm rear and 35-40mm front--

My rear suspension preload is too tight--which means the spring is compressed to far---and this makes the back ride low? That would explain why I feel the rear end hops up off the bigger bumps I hit. Also would seem to contribute to the pipe scraping situation.

At 40.48 mm, The front preload is okay but definitely set on the soft side. The front springs are compressed less and the front is riding on the high end of normal???? That's why the front was bottoming. I tightened it twice. It's okay now but I'm sure it will still bottom if I hit a sudden incline too fast.

I'm thinking out loud here. Can anyone verify what I'm saying as true?


* Last updated by: Rook on 8/14/2010 @ 3:30 PM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
08/14/10 4:47 PM

Okay Rook...here's what I figured...I'm no suspension guru period.I found that stiffening up the front preload damper,say...go all the way down.Don't force it past the stops.Turn out 6 turns(12 clicks).Now....turn the larger black "bolts" for the actual FORK SPRING tension(preload)out to three lines showing.That's the very top line casted into the bolt.and go out to the third line being even with the fork tube top(the silver part).Now,go to the compression damping screw at the lower fork leg assembly.Turn that all the way in,just like you did with the preload damper.Do not force past the stop.Now,turn out 7 turns.(14 clicks).Front's done.


Go to the rear.Get down along side and behind the rear lower fairng(on the kickstand side).Remove that rearmost well nut bolt.Now you can get a driver in there and turn that small preload screw all the way clockwise(like the upper ones)It will NOT click.Now turn CC three full turns.Button that up.Go to the midframe adjuster hole(in the frame).Look in there...see the screw?Turn all the way closed(it will NOT click).NOW,open up Three turns(not half turns).There's your starting point.I'm 175....these settings are working well for me.They may not for you.You want the plush ride quality,but yet NOT the bounching around on corners and such.Try these settings.You should get a better feel of what's happening with these.If it's too soft for ya,determine if the front is acting the way you don't want,or the rear...which you'll feel in your butt dyno.You want the bike to raise and lower equally when you push down on the center of the seat.Front and rear should come up(or down)at the same speed.


Tightening that front preload(not the brass screw)will stiffen your frontend,but you can go too far.You just need to adjust,then ride at you concerning place,and see how she feels.Take your bolt socket,and you small long shank screwdriver with ya,and ride,then adjust.You'll find the sweet spot for you.Higher speeds is gonna require a bit more stiffness...but not TOO much.You don't want er bouncing around.


I've just lowered my bike 1" front and back.So my spring rates were definitely changed.But the settings I gave you are a starting point for ya...they will get ya in the ballpark.Remember...INCREASING any of the adjusters(going clockwise) is meaning you will be SLOWING DOWN the action of the spring or shock.It will create a stiffer ride quality.Both front and rear suspension movement should be happening at the same speed and velocity.You don't want your frame/attitude being faster or slower from front to back in curves(or any other time)...just steady equalibrium.


You want your shocks/forks to absorb the hit,but not cause the chassis to take it as well.You can feel when the chassis is getting slammed along with the wheels and suspension.Ride at higher speeds...see how she feels.To adjust things,just begin with the PRELOAD first(the black bolt)...your rear preload is set at the factory for a 150 lb rider with no accessories on the bike,and no passenger.If you weigh more(which you prolly do),it should be okay,up to a point(you may not need to adjust the rings).You will get your initial "up/down" stiffness and speed by adjusting the front black bolt at the fork top.You can statically get an idea of how your fork preload is doing by applying front brakes,and pushing forward.This will give you an idea of how soft or firm the fork is. Remember...at higher speeds,G forces create more "weight" to the suspension...compression happens faster and stronger,and spring stiffness increases with the compression...so the more she's compressing,the the faster and harder she wants to rebound.So settings at 50,60 mph may not work well at 100.Just have to experiment and take er through all the scenarios you're gonna be riding in.You will get it.

I don't think your scraping of the parts was due to TOO MUCH stiffness of the suspension...I'd say,just the opposite.It may well be TOO soft.They're at the bike's midpoint,so the action was probably pretty even front to back.Small adjustments are the way to go.Adjust,ride.Adjust,ride.Once she's near where ya want,THEN the adjustments(one at a time)will be very noticeable in ride quality.Preloading a spring will increase the rebound effect,and compression of the spring will have to be more forceful,the more she compresses.So slowing down or speeding up those two rates is the third part of the triangle.Those keep the chassis stable.More velocity....faster compression and rebound(G forces).


* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/14/2010 @ 5:38 PM *

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heathun


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Location: Carrollton, Ga

Joined: 02/15/09

Posts: 543

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
08/14/10 6:50 PM

Rook,

I would loosen the rear up a little and shoot for about a 33mm setting. Tighten up the front to about 37mm,

Go out for a ride and see how she responds, then if needed tweak the the compression and rebound settings to your likeing. Remember not to soft or to hard you want your tires to respond to the surface and stay ion contact with it. What you are looking for is a good feed back feel. You'll know it when you feel it.

The bottoming out is more than likely a combination of the preload and compression. remember your compression dampening setting determines how the fluid flows within the forks to convert the energy. To soft and it allows the fluid to move too easily and doesn't convert the energy efficiently.


* Last updated by: heathun on 8/14/2010 @ 7:00 PM *



"You don't quit riding because you get old, You get old because you quit riding"!

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21235

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
08/14/10 11:31 PM

Thanks Blue. I actually thoght the front felt okay after having adjusted it in the first few months of owning the bike. The rear-- I always felt it was too hard and according to what I determined the rear sag to be, it IS. I just stiffened up the rear rebound damping a quarter turn from stock and that seemed to help the way the rear flew up off bumps. I really think the preload is the what needs to be adjusted, though. is a lot less than the 40 mm I have in front. After I get the the sag set to where i think it should be, I'm sure I'll be readjusting the compression and rebound. BTW, I could have sworn my adjuster screws DID click on my rear shock. Maybe a G2 update (or maybe I am just going crazy ).


Yeah, Heathun, I was thinking about the same as you are suggesting on the sag adjustments. The back is way out of the 30-35 range. The front, I think I could leave alone for touring/street riding but it is still plenty soft feeling that I could afford to tighten it. The front has not bottomed after adjusting but for one time last summer. Still, i would rather not feel I have to be so careful on railroad tracks, parking lot skirts, etc. A tighter front would probably improve handling for sport riding, too.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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willidx4



Joined: 03/17/09

Posts: 599

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
08/15/10 5:02 PM

Rook don't guess at suspension settings you won't get it right.It might cost you 50 bucks to have good shop to setup it up for you. Having someone give you advice over the Internet is kind of like having a custom map emailed to you.

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Rook


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Posts: 21235

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
08/15/10 10:56 PM

I don't know, Will....I would save my old map just in case. It looks to me as though I have been riding this thing all f'ed up for the last 22,000 miles. Only an idiot could make it worse.

did I leave myself open for a flaming there? Too easy?

Of course I'll save my old suspension settings.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
08/16/10 3:54 AM

Finding a good shop...ya...wouldn't THAT be kewl!That's excellent advice though Willi...gonna get mine over to my mech and see what he thinks.

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heathun


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Location: Carrollton, Ga

Joined: 02/15/09

Posts: 543

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
08/18/10 10:09 AM

Rook don't guess at suspension settings you won't get it right.It might cost you 50 bucks to have good shop to setup it up for you. Having someone give you advice over the Internet is kind of like having a custom map emailed to you.

So why not learn about suspension yourself. This is no different than doing routine maintenance, do you pay a shop to do everything?.

I don't, I like to know it's done right. Suspension is not rocket science if you understand what the adjustments do and don't go adjusting everything at the same time.



"You don't quit riding because you get old, You get old because you quit riding"!

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Rook


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Posts: 21235

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
08/18/10 11:02 AM

^^You do have to pay $39 for a hook wrench unless you go the hammer and punch route. A nice investment if you ever need to readjust. Hands on is a good way to figure out why mechanical things work. Once you know why, how comes a lot easier. IMHO. Always respect yours though, Will. Lots of good advice from you over the years.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21235

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
09/10/10 1:32 PM

Got around to readjusting that rear sag today. I measured last month and it was only 16mm!! I ordered the Kawi spanner and turned the spring adjuster up (counter clockwise) 4 complete revolutions. Each complete 360 turn gave me ~3.5 mm additional sag. I'm just short of 30 mm rear sag now and the bike takes the larger bumps much better. NO more rear end kicking up in the air.

The Low speed, sharp cornering sure seems easier and safer now. High speed cornering, I don't know if I will feel as much dif. Some of the corners I ride have a bump and the bike seems to take those with out jumping off the ground now. I can feel a subtle change in the interaction of the front and rear suspensions now but I'm sure I will get used to that in no time---like a new tire. Other than the softer ride, I haven't noticed a dramatic change in the handling of the bike. It's all well and good as long as the adjustment prevents any more exhaust scraping.

Thanks, Heathun, for all the info. This is really not that hard and well worth doing if you are having any kind of suspension related problems. I believe I have made some fairly dramatic adjustments to the front and the back suspensions and the bike doesn't feel unsafe to me at all.


* Last updated by: Rook on 9/10/2010 @ 2:14 PM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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heathun


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Location: Carrollton, Ga

Joined: 02/15/09

Posts: 543

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
09/10/10 8:11 PM

Good job rook. I would put one more turn on the rear preload and put it right in the middle. Right now your on the bottom end on rear sag and the front is on the high end. You'd be surprised what that additional 3mm on the rear will do for you.



"You don't quit riding because you get old, You get old because you quit riding"!

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21235

RE: Scraping exhaust need advice
09/10/10 10:04 PM

The same sort of idea was going through my head. I was thinking about tightening the front sag to about 35 mm instead. As long as I can keep the bike from flying off of bumps, I'd rather have the suspension on the stiffer side for cornering.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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