Boys for the second bike, I'd buy another 14 from Harry's in Milton and like our boy ROMANS fit it with a Turbo. I'd keep one as a jewlery bike the other to tear grins off luxury cars! Thoughts!!!

Love the look of the bmw 1000rr but for me it's ass crack floss!

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 5/24/2013 @ 8:14 AM *

---

rr = ass crack floss
duc = ass crack floss
14R = Ass WOT I'm Talking About!

---

ass crack floss

---

Zee #'s don't lie. 40+ or more ft.lbs. of torque over the liter bikes is huge! Add in 200+ actual (not rumored or wished or wanted or bullshitted about) horsepower in such a flawless chassis and everything else is just a nice second bike. :))))

---

C - wholly SHOT!
IT's Alive!!!

Hub, Ass Wot I'm talking about...

---

^^^ You right, numbers don't lie. But you have to be more objective, yes you have 35 ft.lbs more but also, you weight 130 lbs more. When I got on the dyno, first thing the tuner said was: "we're not interested in hp we wanna see TQ". I was surprised to hear that but then he explained that our bikes are so heavy that they need plenty of TQ to get moving pass 150 mph which explains three things:
1. big CC's bike still run the drag strip because terminal speeds are sub 150 MPH
2. all the videos on youtube where you see a 14 or Busa getting the jump and the Beemer catching up and disappearing.
3. Why 14 owners and S1000RR owners both say they have the fastest.
I wanted an S1000RR really bad until I tried one. Then I started bitching about how weak it was in the mid while low were non existent. Pulling away from a dead stop was pathetic after being on a 14 so I kinda gave up on it and looked into the CBR 1000 etc. Then during one of my rides in the country, I met a guy on an S1000RR and we played a little catch me if you can. The guy managed to stay in front but I told him, he knew the roads more than me. So he told me next time I came around to give him a call, he knew a road were that advantage wouldn't play in his favor. So 3 months ago, two weeks before my high side I gave him a call and let's just say that I have witnessed what an S1000RR does when approaching redline well in the triple digit and it's from another world.
Also I used to think the 14R handles better than a 14 but adding BST to my Ohlins suspension made me change that. So the difference is just stiffer suspensions and lighter wheels. kawasaki didn't reinvent the wheel... Pun intended. Hub, you rode Dogo's bike so you can comment on Ohlins suspension vs 14R OEM's. That better steering at parking lot speed you're feeling, that's light wheel + stiffer front too. Power? I'm sitting at 177 hp- 100ft.lbs in hot weather. With a custom map I could touch 180hp, 185hp on a crisp Fall day against the 190 of the 14R but weighing in at around 475-480lbs only. I'm not knocking the 14R off of its throne but 6 years just to do something people have had already access to with bolt ons???! There is a bigger gap between a 2010 ZX-10 and a 2011 ZX-10 than between an 2006 and 2012 ZX-14 and in a nutshell it is the meaning of this thread. It's not about what bike is better because that's subjective to the size of your ass (just going off the ass crack floss joke LOL) but it's about the R&D and the effort the manufacturer put into making you go faster. The S1000RR because the germans brought balls back into R&D (Kawasaki copied them cause they were the first to come up with computerize desrestriction which they included in their race pack.) and The Ducati Panigale because of electronic suspension which all manufacturers will copy and paste (BMW already with the HP4). I rode all three bikes and I strongly encourage you to do so. Just keep in mind that in order to enjoy them like women, let them be true to their nature not what you want them to be and you'll be surprised.

---

Drag.

Great synopsis,
Learned a lot from reading your post. I am pleased to read that the venerable 1ooo rr has it's performance limitations at low revs and in the mid. I always thought it was a nice bike, but as previously posted, ass crack floss for us 6 '3 crowd.

BM's are nice, but as you said about their nature belongs on the track!

Cheers...

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 5/25/2013 @ 3:55 AM *

---

BM's are nice, but as you said about their nature belongs on the track!

And you know this be because you have lots of first hand experience riding the S1000RR?
It's a liter bike. It makes its power differently. It requires use of the gearbox and gives back an experience nothing like a 14. I love 14's but amazed at the number of people who have opinions on the S1000 who haven't ridden it, or ridden it properly. Maybe even more curious are those who have expectations of the BMW like its not a liter bike vs a 1400cc motor. I can positively assure you both are great bikes but neither is just a track bike nor is either just a street bike. I can also assure you the S1000 ridden well, and likely even not so well will leave a lot of pavement between it and a 14R and offer the kind of riding exhilaration those sport bikes were built to give.

---

Jagman please stop. Its been talked about on real racing sites that with equal riders (not a fat zx14r rider) and a 150lb guy riding the bmw that it always comes down to the rider. I have rode against bmws im very light and was the better rider becsuse I beat them every time by2-3 bikes. And drag I'm sorry you or not that close in hp to the new 14. You have nothing done power wise expect basic pipe and tune. My one buddy still has an 09 14 and with his brocks alienhead pc and filter with plenty of breakin miles pulled a 176hp on the same dyno I pulled a 201hp. So you racing a bmw is nothing like me racing one. Because when I race the older 14 I KILL HIM worse than the bmw thats for sure. Oh and when I pulled 201 I wasn't even at a 1000 miles yet. By now with over 5000 I'm sure I'm near 205hp with her being broken in.

* Last updated by: zx14racer on 5/25/2013 @ 7:00 AM *

---

And jagman I don't care what you've owned and now own. Anyone who can say any bike stock for stock mod for mod will LEAVE A LOT PAVEMENT between a 14R loses ALL CREDITABLE with me. And vice versa anyone here who says they could kill a bmw is smokin crack also. They are both at the top of the food chain PERIOD. The one thing that makes the 14r better for me is very very simple, when I raced the bmws they always needed to be in the right gear at the right rpm. Where as the 14r could be anywhere. I got them just once to roll from a NORMAL cruising speed to see what their bikes had in real world passing power and just normal real world scenario I think we were in 4th gear at around 70 or so playing around and holy shit it was like racing a 250!!! The guy fred who owns the bmw was saying afterwards that nobody races like that.........but I told him thats what makes a 14r a better ROAD BIKE we have power ANYWHERE AND EVERYWHERE. End of argument.

* Last updated by: zx14racer on 5/25/2013 @ 7:13 AM *

---

And guys one more thing. I JUST weighed myself and I weigh 168lbs. And my bike is set up perfect to challenge these bikes. Some of you bigger guys with nothing really done to your bikes I do agree it would be a sad day for racing a bmw or a ecu flashed zx10. Even are lil baby brother zx10 will walk you with a light weight rider. And I'm definitely not hating on the bmw, because at my height and size..........well lets just say it will be my next bike unless something even badder comes out. Which I doubt.

* Last updated by: zx14racer on 5/25/2013 @ 7:22 AM *

---

Jagman, everything I read on the BMW states it is the ultimate "Track Weapon!" I'm sorry am I stating something that is not supported in the literature? As for ride, I rode a 1000rr (2011) took it for a 45 minute rip, so I will say for the record this does not count, and I assure you I can't base an opinion on such a short ride. So you're right I've never ridden one, long enough to make conclusions.

As for ZXRacer, he does speak the truth...The bike, under the right conditions with the right rider will eat your beloved BMW. I am an experienced rider, got a header to a full system on the way with a PC, I weight 237 (and falling). I've been riding a lot of years. I may not be a zx racer but I am definitely a threat.

Mad love Jagman,

---

If we compare bikes in the same state of modifications and tune level, the 14R does still put up not just incredible #'s that no other bike touches, but riding experience on every day roads that destroys everything else. I don't want to hear about gen I's anymore. It took all of those mods for a gen I to still NOT equal a BONE STOCK gen II. The chassis is also revised, meaning stiffened in the right places and relieved in the right places after studying the thermodynamics of the gen I frame. The gen I looks like Rosie O'donnel. Not 'classic'. If we but merely throw the same level of tune on the R including intelligent suspension and wheel upgrades as well as letting her breathe? You get a bike that stuns on every level even when ridden against the latest on any real roads. Built gen I's are nice. But they are not the R. Kawasaki didn't reinvent the wheel, the perfected its use.

---

Cblast...........simply perfectly stated!!!!!!!!! Nothing more needs to be said.

---

Wolf,

45 mins on the 1000RR is enough to make a statement, so did it have the "pull" the 14 R does ? I have never had the pleasure to ride an RR, would love too ... I keep hearing from riders that own the 14R and the RR, (or who have ridden them both) that the RR comes on more on top end, (but being 100 lbs lighter I would think that it would FEEL like it has the same pull) as I have said, I have never ridden the RR, and I am NOT trying to discredit it in any way, I think it is one of the most innovative,fast bikes to come out in years,

Just asking ....

---

Thank you ZX-14Racer, I have to give credit where credit is due. I tease ya about long swingarms, but your bike is frickin sic! That thing pulls like its trying to break free of earths hold. It pulls like the devil himself is whupping the shit out of her with teeth and claws! I have felt what you get to feel everyday. I am jealous. :)) I am going to approach my mods one at a time and slowly. It's driving me nuts actually. But... I can't wait for the finished product and I am going to enjoy the process all the more. :) getting to know her intimately stock is giving me an appreciation for her I haven't had for my other bikes.

---

Carabuser. I did not want to give it back to the dealer when I had her out. First thing I did was take it to the highway. I too noticed bmw did not posess as much low and mid range power as zx but when it did come on it felt like someone kicked me in the back. Flicable and ergos are tight and way to cramped for wolfzilla. I had her humming about 250 ish and I had to practically marry my nuts and helmut to the tank to not get blown off. Was impressed. Did some low speed sweepers and some curvacious increasing degree entry and exit ramps. Suffice to say I would trade an hour with my favourite prostitute just to ride her (bmw)again!!!

Great bike, smooth refined, BUT DEFINATELY A TRACK BIKE, in my opinion!

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 5/25/2013 @ 11:41 AM *

---

I love liter bikes and have nothing but respect for the s1krr. Recent liter bikes in my stable have included and 05 zx10, 08 zx10, and most recently a 11 gsxr 1k (that I swapped for the 12 14r). The laser handling and tremendous braking coupled with the top end rush is great. I also found all of them pretty comfortable although a bit vibey, especially compared to a 14. The thing is, I'm never going to a track and aside from exit ramps and on ramps the handling advantage of a liter bike is less worthwhile to me than the advantages offered by the 14. I don't have to wring the 14 out to feel the power. The bike is butter smooth. And when I do get on it the handling is much more confidence inspiring.

I'll admit to not having ridden the s1k, but I assume it is more of a good thing that I'm already familiar with generally with liter bikes. If I were to get another it would certainly be on the short list but then I'd probably still opt for the 4th gen zx10 although a HP4 would be fun to have. The euro dealer networks are slim pickings and the parts come at a premium. Although I do appreciate that at least with the bmw the service intervals are pretty decent.

As a bonafide street bike I think the zx14r is tremendous and the best value available right now.

---

CBlast... this is my problem. I didn't want to buy a 14R to go down the same road mods wise with the current mod I have on my bike I couldn't enjoy the 14r which I test rode when it got out. Guys with lights mods or no prior 14 experience seem to make the jump easier and IMHO kaw shoulda made something that would make me wanna throw my 14 away.
ZXracer... you talked too much without weighing in what people say. My perspective is comparing my modded bike to a stock 14R. I rode all 3 bikes nobody's here rode mine, and most never sat on a S1000RR. Don't follow the #'s hype too much in the real world it's a total different story. True top HP is not seen on the dyno and the two numbers I need explained are Brock's gen 1 14 going 200 mph and the 14R going 203. Only 3 miles difference for 6 years of R&D.
Jagman... what's up man? I was agreeing with you but u lost me with the mid power thing and need to push the Beemer. You don't need to risk your life to find out if you like it or not and if you own one and don't use you knee pucks u're wasting the bike talent. Some duc, CBR 1000 and the RC8 have plenty of tq so it's OK for somebody to hop on the beemer and complain about mid and low lack of power.
Jasonc... you have the least posts but you made the most sense thanks for the input. Experienced riders don't pick sides they just talk about how their riding skills complement a certain bike etc.

* Last updated by: dragking on 5/25/2013 @ 2:14 PM *

---

The Japanese must be deep into some serious reverse engineering, trying to find out how those Germans are getting so much outta mere liter bike.

Experienced riders don't pick sides they just talk about how their riding skills complement a certain bike etc.

TOTALLY AGREE!!!!

---

Right.

Its like picking which hot woman has the best a*s. Its all a matter of personal tastes and what you want the bike (a*s) for, long, hard riding or quickies..........LOL

Did I say that out loud?

If we compare bikes in the same state of modifications and tune level, the 14R does still put up not just incredible #'s that no other bike touches, but riding experience on every day roads that destroys everything else. I don't want to hear about gen I's anymore. It took all of those mods for a gen I to still NOT equal a BONE STOCK gen II. The chassis is also revised, meaning stiffened in the right places and relieved in the right places after studying the thermodynamics of the gen I frame. The gen I looks like Rosie O'donnel. Not 'classic'. If we but merely throw the same level of tune on the R including intelligent suspension and wheel upgrades as well as letting her breathe? You get a bike that stuns on every level even when ridden against the latest on any real roads. Built gen I's are nice. But they are not the R. Kawasaki didn't reinvent the wheel, the perfected its use.

Actually missed that earlier! Cblast what's an "every day road"? It would be interesting to know the bikes you've owned and the kind of riding you do! BUT if you think the chassis is flawless, you're riding too slow! The bike is 580+ lbs, the swingarm is longer, and it's wider. So you're probably scraping lowers and cases as soon as you up the pace. ZXRacer is conservative and his way of riding doesn't involve turning so I understand where he's coming from although I think that his feedback aren't worth it since they only involve racing wanna be racers in straight lines. Also, I don't care if you ride a BMW, Busa or S1000RR but if you tell me your bike is perfect keep your findings for yourself (I'm not talking to anybody in particular here). No bike is perfect and that's why development come through racing. Just like you guys right now, we had guys saying the 14 was perfect and then the 14R came out LOL so please...
Again, I'm not interested in how the bike handle on my way to the grocery store. Glock or Heckler don't expect you to store your pistol in a sub zero freezer or mud and attempt to fire it but pistols that don't meet that standard don't make it. So all those dyno numbers don't mean nothing unless they're backed up in the real world. Go do an LSR event go do a track day or go to the strip and report back. The use hasn't been perfected, it has been specialized. Basically Kawasaki is counting on prowess on the drag strip to sell bikes. As far as the looks, beauty is in the eye of... I like the new grills but the 14R looks too big in my opinion. She's got a bigger belly and don't get me started on the cans.

Carabuser. I did not want to give it back to the dealer when I had her out. First thing I did was take it to the highway. I too noticed bmw did not posess as much low and mid range power as zx but when it did come on it felt like someone kicked me in the back. Flicable and ergos are tight and way to cramped for wolfzilla. I had her humming about 250 ish and I had to practically marry my nuts and helmut to the tank to not get blown off. Was impressed. Did some low speed sweepers and some curvacious increasing degree entry and exit ramps. Suffice to say I would trade an hour with my favourite prostitute just to ride her (bmw)again!!!
Great bike, smooth refined, BUT DEFINATELY A TRACK BIKE, in my opinion!

Wolf, I agree with you here. If you're smaller it's alright to use an S1000RR as a commuter but if you haven't done a track day on it... to me it's like owning a Lamborghini and having a clean driving record... funny. You know, I had a guy tell me one day, my bike belonged on a drag strip. I was so amazed by the irony of his statement because he rode a 675R with huge chicken trips! The 14 or Busa are definitely more street than Liters and 600's. I don't wanna be changing gears in a hurry when soccer mom is moving in my lane. Nor do I wanna ride at higher RPM with the motor screaming unless I'm having fun on windy roads.

At the end of the day, fast bikes are like thoroughbred horses. You find the horse first and then you find the guy that can ride it. Look at racing, guys are small and diet and exercise hard to fit on the bike, even F1 riders have 6 packs LOL so if you're over weight or old and can't ride any bike beside the 14R for long distance it's on you not the bike. So I won't even weight that as a logical argument. Let's focus on pure performance. Max speed, 0-60-0 etc or maybe not because when you do that there is no argument. There is a reason why motoGP has evolved to the 1000's.

The Japanese must be deep into some serious reverse engineering, trying to find out how those Germans are getting so much outta mere liter bike.

Nah they know! It's easy. They just buy a dozen S1000RR dissect them and voila. They just decided to go somewhere else with the marketing etc. A company has to remain true to its philosophy. Following the current leader is admitting it is better. Now the problem is the fact that Honda is coming with their own HP4 so expect prices to climb up.
I was watching a famous french tuner, tuning a ZX-10R and he gave props to the Kawasaki. He said the Japanese tolerance specs was better than the germans'. He would put an S1000RR on the dyno and get 173 to 190 HP but there was a smaller difference between ZX-10R's. To tell you the truth, the only thing Beemer is doing power wise is finding a way to create huge numbers while meeting emission standards. In Europe the ZX-14R is considered a 200 hp bike in stock form while the Busa is around 190hp.

* Last updated by: dragking on 5/25/2013 @ 7:14 PM *

---

Given that a de-restricted 4th gen zx10 will kiss 180hp at the wheel with just a flash they aren't far off bmw's game. Kawasaki just got lazy dealing with noise restrictions and decided to artificially cut the power.

---

^^^ lazy or stingy with the wallet! As far as the Japanese market goes, they got one of the highest MSRP but you still have to throw after market stuff at their bikes to claim dominance.
2008 Busa: Throw a pipe on it and call it good. You want more? It easy and reliable to turbo.
2011-present ZX-10R just look at Garth's bike, You have to throw at least 10k at it to make it kick a stock 14R. Beemer? Pipe and tune.

How many guys here can tell me they can buy a 15k bike and throw, a pipe, custom, tune, flash, suspension on the damn thing? Who wanna make payments and do that? If you go that route, by the time you get done, we're talking ZX-16 LOL That's why I respect Ducati and the Panigale. The bike doesn't compromise, it's either you fit on it or you don't but once you buy it no upgrades are needed. Not even a sprocket change.

* Last updated by: dragking on 5/25/2013 @ 7:32 PM *

---