Jeff:

Thanks for checking back in with us. I know you prefer telephone to computer...

And I certainly understand your being upset with where the "conversation" here as gone.

However, I myself and several others here are absolutely delighted with your product. If we could get to the bottom of the problems with the two who had trouble, it would probably go a long way towards getting you more business. These forum messages will still be here years from now, and thousands of ZX-14 owners will see them.

Just a thought... -bg

hey hub heres an idea since you and kruz know so much about maps why dont you guys make monster a map...lol

put up or shut up

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BTW BG-did you know that you and the others that got a good running map have SH%$ for brains-that you wouldn't know a good running bike if it fell in your lap?

Yes. I'll admit that I'm an idiot.

However, I'm pretty sure that when I twisted that thingie on the end of the right handlebar after I loaded Jeff's map, the bike ran better/stronger/faster. And it wasn't just a LITTLE different. It was a LOT different.

There's something to be gained here if we can work through this... -bg

YES-------and it shall be Iiiiiiiiiii!

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hey rook congrats on the new busa id like to find a nice 2000 unrestricted model now that would be fun

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Woohooo, you guys have pi**ed Jeffo off! He is gonna get you! I mailed him and he said I must phone him, but a call from SA is lotsa money. Pity he doesn't have a collection of maps like Power Commander that you can download. I am a bit stupid on this: if you have a map that works at sea level (like where I am), why will this not work at altitude? Does the PC not compensate? I would presume that the standard electronics on the bike would. Very confused.
Methinks: toss the Power Commander and take a chance on Kawasaki Electronics. Less hassle, for sure. Who has removed flies, done lotsa mileage at speed and had zero problems? Lets hear it from the boys.

* Last updated by: harleyzx1400 on 9/25/2009 @ 1:46 AM *

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Less hassle, for sure. Who has removed flies, done lotsa mileage at speed and had zero problems? Lets hear it from the boys.

Harley, I'm one. All my beefs were with the stock set up. I have removed the flies from 3 zx-14 now. Not one of the guys has asked to have them reinstalled.

if you have a map that works at sea level (like where I am), why will this not work at altitude? Does the PC not compensate? I would presume that the standard electronics on the bike would. Very confused.

Hub can explain open and closed loop better than any one. Maybe he will post a link to one of his old threads. The PC5 with auto tune only datalogs and recomends changes up to 20% that you must input. I hope this helps is some way, lots to learn. Cheers.

Hi, Rick. Have any of the guys who removed flies had a Power Commander or have they ridden 'as is'? I have the PC111 with USB. Will get back to you later on the map. I know Hub means well, but sometimes I am not up to speed on his explanations!! Sorry, Hub. My age, probably!

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blue07 there is the autotune for the pc5 but that a $250+ add on

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harely has a good point on the dj site there is 5 or 6 maps availiable so they truly are 1 map fits all meaning a guy at sea level and 1 at say 3500ft above sea level get the same map ... which one is going to run better? i bet if you live close to the dj facility you bike would run like a champ on their maps. another thought we all know the 14 comes from the factory running rich do they make adj to the ecu's on the bikes sent to higher elevations. maybe thats why bg noticed such a big a big difference in the running of his bike after installing jeffo's map. maybe hub could gather his team in japan and get the answer to these questions...lol

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I'm still waiting to hear of anyone here mapping their own bike?

well crappy head ..i make my own maps . not just for a stock motor ..but for turbo and noz bikes .and they are not tested by some seat of the pants hearsay ..but by race track testing ..and the track don't lie ..you want to find out if you improved take it to the track . cause if anybody that maps know ..you can make a map and test it on the street and think you gained 10mph in the 1/4 ..but in reality lose 5mph..every thing seems fast on the street until you hit the track .. and testing with a datalogger and a a/f meter is the ONLY way to map a bike . aND THERE NO MAJIC 13.5 NUMBER TO MAKE A BIKE RUN GOOD now you had you lesson for today crappyhead ..now go take a dump and clear your head out

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 9/25/2009 @ 6:21 AM *

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maybe thats why bg noticed such a big a big difference in the running of his bike after installing jeffo's map.

maybe there was several problems with his bike before he tuned it ..sugar pills are a doctors best freind..

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I am a bit stupid on this: if you have a map that works at sea level (like where I am), why will this not work at altitude? Does the PC not compensate? I would presume that the standard electronics on the bike would. Very confused.

the pc does not make up for altitude in fact the ecu doesn't either ..the only way the ecu adjust is from air temp or engine temp and its a 3% sway either way on adjustment ..the auto-tune is a tool to adjust mapping and its help some my freinds who had generic maps and they trimmed their bike with the auto=tune..on a track and seen up 2 to 4 mph gains..same day running same gas old map vs auto-tuning testing .. some even had bigger gains but that was because mapping was shitty to start with

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Harley a friend of mine has a 14, aftermarket slipons, secondaries removed and no PC. He's run his bike like this for 2 years and roughly 10k miles with no problems. I will say that it's not as strong as mine, even with me 2 up and him solo I can take him in any gear from a dig or roll-on. I don't know if it's the bike, riders or a combination of both.

I will be ordering a map from jeffo today. Hell for $50 I'll try one out, if nothing else I can check my TPS and install the injector pump. I'll post up my results. I spoke with Jeff for a good while and he sounds like the kind of guy who would make it right if you give him the chance.

Think about this guys, if you go to a dyno tuner how many of them get the map dead on with one single run. Even then the bike is only tuned for one specific area (usually top end). I don't know about all of you but I live for the low and mid range freight train pull. Thats what I need for powering out of the corners. Thats one reason I've never put her on a dyno for tuning. One thing I liked about Jeff is the fact that he went to great lengths to find out what I was looking for and how I ride so he could adjust the map accordingly. He also wanted elevation, what type of humidity and how the temps are. So he seems to be approaching these from the right angle and not sending everyone generic maps. He also talked to me about the decel poping and he already knew the cause of this (I have to inform most people of the reason behind this) and knows how to reduce it drastically. So I'll give him a shot at it.

* Last updated by: heathun on 9/25/2009 @ 7:01 AM *

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Look what the cat drug in...it's Jeffo. Nice post, spoken like a true professional Jeff. You tell people to call you and u make it right, no you don't, just more offers of experimenting on other peoples bikes and what happens if your experiment goes wrong jeff??? Do you pay for your mistakes????? NO!!! What if you fried someone's engine?? Does anyone think he is gonna pay for it? Hell no he don't offer to pay for 60 dollar plugs that he fried with a shitty untested map. Just know this, you buy a map from him it is at your own risk, you are responsible for paying for his mistakes. You can keep my money Jeff, you might need it some day if someone sues you for F#$%ing up their bike. You seem like a nice guy, but guess what, most CON men are. Motorcycling is a dangerous sport and bad karma is not something I would want on my back. What goes around comes around Jeff. Feel sorry for the next sap that sends you $50 dollars on a pcV map.

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maybe there was several problems with his bike before he tuned it

The bike was running BEAUTIFULLY before I installed the new map. It's running EVEN BETTER now... -bg

Funny how its all good if your bike is not F*#@ed up, I am glad yalls map works, but me personally, I don't do buisness with people that screw over fellow bikers.

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interesting observation. using the PC, mark your grip with a 40% mark. I threw a strip of masking tape around mine and marked a few spots. just as long as you can see it while riding. go for a ride and see where the throttle is set most of the time

Funny how its all good if your bike is not F*#@ed up

We develop (web-based) software for a living. There may be an interesting parallel between that and the current situation here...

When there is a problem with a piece of software -- even a single very small problem -- it can make the whole program look like a piece of shit. Sometimes a small correction or change can be made to get rid of the problem, and the program all of a sudden looks like a piece of perfection. Funny how that works, but I've seen it several times.

You may be one tweak away from a beautiful map. Or not. I dunno. Just a thought...

Sorry this hasn't worked out for you. -bg

bad ur maps would prob benefit us if we lived our lives like you ..a 1/4mi at a time but im sure the rest of us dont just use the 100% throttle setting alone, so how do your maps work for the real world of just putting round town or taking a nice cruise through the hills just curious

* Last updated by: scottjkyl on 9/25/2009 @ 8:50 AM *

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I hear ya BG

Its just the whole " I can screw up your bike and you can pay to fix it and then let my try that again" I am not cool with that. Wouldn't we all like a job where you can screw up anything you want and not be responsible for it, just send me yo 50 dollaz suckaz.

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You have to be so consistent is the 3wVariables and those are so absolute, I am going to pound your abstract coming back so HARD-I do not want to come around ear myself. GreedHerDONE!

The Hub steers on a roll here, between him and Rotty this is one Tuff crowd! I'm easy, give me a good map for $50, fair exchange and I go away happy. 4 or 5 of you got good maps, 2 didn't... is that a good average? One crapped a plug and left the guy stranded, my second map got worse, now it's become a confidence issue and Jeffo comes back with an attitude? Me and Monster should have the attitude, we lost the $50, not Jeffo. Is this guy able to fix his map over the phone? Reminds me of a game of Chinese Whispers, what comes back to you ain't nothing like what you originally said. Should I trust a $12,000 motorcycle with 2000 miles to this process? Would You ScottJkyl? Like I said, I'm glad some of you guys with 14s like your maps. I agree with BG, a map service at reasonable price is a valuable thing to have around here as an alternative to $400 custom mapping. My question to Jeffo still stands: Did you or did you not map a 2007 CBR 1000RR with a Yoshimura RS-5 full Exhaust System? You never would answer my question, only something about a Jardine and this makes me uneasy. If you didn't, what did you map...or did you map anything (keyboard monkey mode??)? DJ zero map actually ran better on my bike than your map. This is your chance to come clean and be upfront and honest with me, Monster and the rest of the board. You can turn this whole thing around by being transparent and convincing me and Monster you can fix the problem.

that is all,

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 9/25/2009 @ 10:36 AM *

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Kruz, nice points!

Jeffo, here is a business tip for you, you may have 50 happy customers, but one angry one can cost you 100 customers. Its always best to do the right thing, even if cost a little, you will make alot more money in the long run. Now I am not a business guru like you BUT i was born with common sense. Maybe it was worth my $50 dollars to see your true colors.

I think I am done for the day....Have a Happy Friday everyone!!!!!

P.S. Jeff that business tip I just gave you is gonna cost you a cool 60 bucks....I take cash, check or paypal. Thanks!

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Truth be told-there probably is a map for our 14's that just blows em all away-if someone could just produce it!

Problem is blue07, there is no one perfect map just like there's no such thing as a one-size-fits-all suit off the rack. We all have different mods, riding styles, operate at different altitudes and different ambient temperatures. Some of us drag race, some do track days and twisties, some long distance tour and some just putt around town. There is a pretty wide window of AFR's that will work reasonably well, won't hurt your motor and will give you reasonable economy. 12.6 to 1 A/F will get you peak power while stoichiometric 14.7 to 1 will give you lean for high fuel economy. 13.2 to 1 is a good compromise of both. My point is there will never be one map that makes everyone happy. My hot button is crisp, smooth throttle response throughout the entire power range. Topend power is secondary cause I rarely ever use it. Rotties hot button is big dyno numbers and he doesn't care about throttle response. I'd be miserable on his ride. Are you getting my point here?

Kruz

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Blue, all the tuners I've known learned to tune by tuning if that makes any sense. This is not hard science, I don't care what DJ says, it's more like an art form. You gotta arm yourself with a little theory, roll up your sleeves and get yer hands dirty. You'll make plenty of mistakes, foul a few plugs here and there and if lucky you won't blow yer motor. The reward, if you persevere is knowledge that allows you to get it right. All the racing teams have guys like that, most have an engineering degrees and love to tinker, ask questions and try to figure out the answers.

On this Jeffo thing, it's possible Jeffo actually knows what he's doing with a PC3, got ahold of a ZX-14 and actually tuned it decent and that's why you guys like it. I still think he didn't know anything about the PC5, got in over his head but took a chance anyway cause Monster was going to pay for any foul ups.....and hey, 50 bucks is 50 bucks...gotta pay those bills! Learning curve is steep but it feels a lot smoother when someone else takes all the risk......oops... Stevie Erkel mode...."did I do that??" as bike goes flamethrower. "Uhh Monster, this is Mission Control in Phoenix..I think we need to dial back on that fuel in the first column....over! Do ya think?? What was your first clue?

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 9/25/2009 @ 10:38 AM *

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