hey there, you also need to return. just when I started to be able to decipher your mystical writings, you disappear

I agree, this place would not be the same without Hub.

What happened to Hub?

Kruz

Hub has bowed out, off the site, left the building...........This the part where he answers ?

Hubster you have to come back - I understand what everybody is saying and it scares me...........

What is going on here. I always supported Hub, whether in the old board or here. It would be sad to lose him.

cntrlhub, we are waiting on you.
I've seen you scrap it up a lot worse than that and you never took a walk.

I don't check in for a couple days, and I miss everything. HUB......COME BACK HUB..... ( just watched Shane again) Seriously, the site won't be the same without you. You have helped more than you know.

stupids dat notz how u getz hub back . it like dis the absolute of hubs bike is flocker -up and default mode is just a bad tre ..

Hub I still don't know what an altimo 1 is???????????????

I think Jeffo's been, Hub'd!

The 1Atmo is what Jeffo's chasing to increase the HP short of fouling plugs.

Hub your only back because you know my bike makes more power than your stock turd....Game back on.Oh ya...we all win again. lol

Even I had to do some mods to keep abreast of Hub's stocker snail. I heard he got a ticket for holding up flow of traffic on I-405 the other day.

* Last updated by: Steven14 on 9/29/2009 @ 7:00 PM *

Hub I still don't know what an altimo 1 is???????????????

By definition 1 atmo is the air pressure at sea level. The pressure at sea level also corresponds to the amount of air pressure that will support a column of mercury 760 mm high at 0 degrees Celsius under standard gravity, or 14.7 pounds per square inch (1.01325 × 105 pascals). Consequently, 1 atm0 = 760 mm Hg.

The unit of pressure used to be torr, also known as mmHG (millimeter mercury). Some mercury was put in a glass tube. If the pressure changes, the level of the mercury in the tube changes with it. The reason that mercury is used is that the thermal expansion of mercury is big. Mercury also doesn't stick to the glass. It was calibrated that on sea-level the height of the mercury was 760 mm. At sea-level the pressure is also defined as 1 atmosphere, that's why 1 atmosphere equals 760 torr. If you measure the pressure in Pascal at sea-level, you will find 101325 Pa. This also equals one atmosphere.

Pressure is related with temperature and volume. If the volume is constant and the temperature gets higher, the pressure also gets higher. This is because the molecules gets more energy and move faster.

Anyway...

The manifold absolute pressure(MAP) measurement is used to meter fuel. The amount of fuel required is directly related to the mass of air entering the engine. The mass of air is proportional to the air density, which is proportional to the absolute pressure and inversely proportional to the absolute temperature. (See ideal gas law.) Engine speed determines the frequency, or rate, at which air mass is leaving the intake manifold and entering the cylinders.

(Engine Mass Airflow Rate) ? RPM × (Air Density)

or equivalently

(Engine Mass Airflow Rate) ? RPM × Volume x MAP x M / (2 x R x absolute temperature)

Where Volume is the displacement of the engine, M is the molar mass of air, and R is the ideal gas constant. The two in the denominator is needed for 4 stroke engines because half the engine's displacement is swept during one revolution.

The following example assumes the same engine speed and air temperature.

* Condition 1:

An engine operating at WOT (wide open throttle) on top of a very high mountain has a MAP of about 15" Hg or 50 kPa (essentially equal to the barometer).

* Condition 2:

The same engine at sea level will achieve 15" Hg of MAP at less than WOT due to the higher barometric pressure.

The engine requires the same mass of fuel in both conditions because the mass of air entering the cylinders is the same.

If the throttle is opened all the way in condition 2, the manifold absolute pressure will increase from 15" Hg to nearly 30" Hg (~100 kPa), about equal to the local barometer, which in condition 2 is sea level. The higher absolute pressure in the intake manifold increases the air's density, and in turn more fuel can be burned resulting in higher output.

Anyone who has driven up a high mountain is familiar with the reduction in engine output as altitude increases.

Vacuum comparison

Vacuum is the difference between the absolute pressures of the intake manifold and atmosphere. Vacuum is a "gauge" pressure, since gauges by nature measure a pressure difference, not an absolute pressure. The engine fundamentally responds to air mass, not vacuum, and absolute pressure is necessary to calculate mass. The mass of air entering the engine is directly proportional to the air density, which is proportional to the absolute pressure, and inversely proportional to the absolute temperature.

Note: Carburetors are largely dependent on air volume flow and vacuum, and neither directly infers mass. Consequently, carburetors are precise, but not accurate fuel metering devices. Carburetors were replaced by more accurate fuel metering methods, such as fuel injection.

Barometer and vacuum calculations based on MAP

The MAP sensor can be used to directly measure the BAP (barometric absolute pressure).

BAP = MAP (When either of the following conditions are true.)

*
o When the engine is not turning.
o When operating at WOT (nearly equal to the barometric pressure)

Once the BAP is known, the MAP sensor can be used to calculate intake manifold vacuum.

BAP - MAP = Manifold Vacuum

or

BAP = MAP + Manifold Vacuum

or

MAP = BAP - Manifold Vacuum

*
o When the engine is running, the difference between the BAP and the MAP is known as intake manifold vacuum. The ECU learns the BAP just before cranking the engine, i.e., when MAP equals BAP.

As atmospheric pressure decreases with increasing altitude, vacuum must also decrease to maintain the same MAP in order to maintain the same torque output. This is accomplished by opening the engine's throttle more as altitude increases. However, the BAP learned at the beginning of the trip becomes obsolete as altitude changes.

The engine control system uses both a BAP sensor and a MAP sensor to continuously maintain an accurate barometer and manifold vacuum. However, neither vacuum nor barometer are necessary for fuel determination, although they are helpful for other engine functions. The critical information is the air's density in the intake manifold, and the speed of the engine, i.e., the speed-density method.

The BAP sensor is located under the seat, and the MAP sensor is located in the intake manifold.

On the ZX14, the inlet air pressure sensor(MAP) is the same part as the atmospheric sensor(BAP) except that the sensor has a vacuum hose and different wiring.

Cyclejunkie, this is the same info Hub uses to explain why OUR Moded bikes go faster then his stock set up. oops I said it wrong...or did I ?

Good way to lure him back, though.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/29/2009 @ 7:21 PM *

Even I had to do some mods to keep abreast of Hub's stocker snail.

Love the pipes. 99% have made some improvements. Except HUB.

That was a good outline, CJunkie. Now, see pg.3-43, code 15 Atmo sensor fails it reverts to the base Pa 760mmHG. Intake air defaults to the Ta 30C° to the water temp using the Tw 80C°. All those numbers add up to base 1Atmo.

Therefore, you hack to base 1Atmo. Someway, somehow, you set a code, this will have to use a backup base number like a Pa or Ta. The analog is more like an 02 sensor. And the open loop is more a single read of that one Atmo number as CJ pointed out in the beginning and how that 1Atmo is formed.

Good way to lure him back, though.

Damn glad to see you back Hub!!! You've help me directly and more than I could guess in-directly. Sure didn't want to see you go!!

Now if BG and Sharky would climb back on the beast.

^^^>...........and let us not forget Kruz. Do we need to post a "Kruz" topic? What you say there, SA?

The 1Atmo is what Jeffo's chasing to increase the HP short of fouling plugs.

help me hub for some reason every time i catch an atmo. it keeps spliting into 2 atmo's and then i get 4 atmo . it's getting overloaded around here with atmo's ..

Even I had to do some mods to keep abreast of Hub's stocker snail

olde you dirtay bassturd

Yeah, nobody should leave because of different opinions or whatever. It is a forum, after all. Sometimes the language is a bit undesirable, but WTF, so be it.
Come on all you leavers, return.
Hub, good to see you back.

Damn glad to see you back Hub!!! You've help me directly and more than I could guess in-directly. Sure didn't want to see you go!!

Now if BG and Sharky would climb back on the beast.

Thanks, Phil, harley/and the rest of you, except who said my slow bike was too slow for a stocker. Don't make me pull pipe off, plumbing pipe it closed and remove my muffler bearing. Tell me my bike is slow. Wear you at?

Yes, just parody in play. Might make Jeffo as famous as Ivan or Infamous is not my call. I just call it ass I see it and call me a jerkoff/asshat/wattever word you need to hang on someone. Leather up the skin. Ear comes the slider ball(s).