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Thread: gas mileage seems low

Created on: 03/14/12 03:33 PM

Replies: 25

Caroobs


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Joined: 03/14/12

Posts: 273

gas mileage seems low
03/14/12 3:33 PM

Picked up a used 2009 ZX14 a few months ago with about 3600 miles on it and it's a dream. About 3k miles later I have had no problems yet with the bike. A couple things that concern me though:
- lots of tapping when the engine runs at low-mid RPMs. From what I've read, this is normal...?
- low gas mileage. I don't have a long history of gas mileage. Since I started tracking tanks over the last month or so, I have 2 tanks on road trips where I got right at 34 mpg on both tanks. My normal commuting/fun riding miles varies from 27-30 over 5 tanks. I generally ride pretty moderately, with some "spirited" riding. No drag racing or stuff like that. The bike also seems slower to me than it was, but I'm thinking it could just be me getting faster...

I guess my main question is really is this a problem worth taking the bike to the mechanic and paying him a lot of money to investigate? Or is this just a normal thing?



'09 Candy Green ZX-14, flies out, Yoshi slipons, Pipercross air filter, PAIR blocked, PC-V, Speedohealer, Illumiglo gauges, Throttlemeister cruise control, Monster shorty levers, Corbin seat, 35w HID lights.

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SILVER14


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Location:

virginia beach va

Joined: 07/25/10

Posts: 160

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/14/12 5:05 PM

Everything seems normal to me. Slower though? Seems like your not twisting that right grip to the stops!!



08 ZX14 Atomic Silver
09 YZFR6 Limited Edition Orange & Black

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13917

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/14/12 5:45 PM

I generally ride pretty moderately, with some "spirited" riding. No drag racing or stuff like that. The bike also seems slower to me than it was, but I'm thinking it could just be me getting faster...

There is your mileage downfall. "Spirited" does not add gallons to your tank. Put that pad and paper down. You are beginning to look the clown counter. Do you know why the R came out? Because of guys like you. That is right. The bike did not slow down, you got faster for another model in a few years. No gas mileage is going to help you and that 14 of yours. Well yes, maybe. They have a 250cc wanna look like a Ross Sea on less horse see, you can then up the mileage that way. Now, are you done with the saving a gallon here, nor dare, when uncle wristy is riding shotgun?

As far as noise? Yes, noise can be normal, noise can be telling you Uncle wristy is having dry heaves and kennel coughs:
1. Now, is this early morning tick it goes away when warm?
2. Is it ticking no matter the rpm?
3. Do it tick then go away then come back?



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13917

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/14/12 5:47 PM

Due tell.



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21744



Joined: 11/06/09

Posts: 175

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/14/12 5:56 PM

Listen to HUB on the tick shit! He is asking the right questions. My o8 averaged about 40MPG and my 12, that is about broken in @ 4044 miles, gets about the same. The milage will pick up 4 to 5 MPG on both bikes if I use Premium 92 w/o any 10% ethanol fuel. Ride till you die.

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Caroobs


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Joined: 03/14/12

Posts: 273

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/14/12 5:59 PM

Oh don't get me wrong - I did not get the 14 to save money on gas. But after doing some research and reading about people getting 40+ mpg, and averaging something in the mid-upper 30s, I just want to be sure that the mileage I get is normal and not indicative of some problem.

For the ticking, it is always there, hot or cold. It definitely correlates to engine speed (ie it gets faster as the engine revs). It seems to fade out around 6k RPM, but I honestly can't tell if it goes away or if the engine sound drowns it out. I used to have an old '86 VFR that was burning oil at one point. I could always tell when the oil was getting low because the engine would start ticking. That was basically the valves not getting enough oil, and this sounds just like that. I've triple checked the oil though, (making very sure the bike is level, after running to full temp, etc) and I'm sure the bike isn't low on oil.

Again, this might be that the 14 is a mechanically noisy bike? I don't mind putting money into it to care for it, I just don't want to spend a few hundred bucks at the mechanic for them to tell me everything is fine...


* Last updated by: Caroobs on 3/14/2012 @ 6:00 PM *



'09 Candy Green ZX-14, flies out, Yoshi slipons, Pipercross air filter, PAIR blocked, PC-V, Speedohealer, Illumiglo gauges, Throttlemeister cruise control, Monster shorty levers, Corbin seat, 35w HID lights.

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Caroobs


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Joined: 03/14/12

Posts: 273

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/14/12 6:01 PM

Oh yeah, I use 100% 93 octane, though I probably should look into ethanol free...



'09 Candy Green ZX-14, flies out, Yoshi slipons, Pipercross air filter, PAIR blocked, PC-V, Speedohealer, Illumiglo gauges, Throttlemeister cruise control, Monster shorty levers, Corbin seat, 35w HID lights.

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21744



Joined: 11/06/09

Posts: 175

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/14/12 6:17 PM

Is the bike running the standard 41/17 sprockets?

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blue14


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Joined: 02/25/12

Posts: 70

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/14/12 7:59 PM

Hi, I get 32-34 mpg with my beautiful sapphire blue 2008. The most I ever got on a road trip was 38mpg so yours is right where it should be. This is not the economy model. Its made for one thing! Its like having a 427 in a Vette. Mine doesn`t do it but some rattle a little when first started. That is the cam chain. Also normal. Lou D

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13917

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/14/12 8:05 PM

1. The PAIR is noisy at times.
2. Injectors are electromagnets going on and off thousands of times.
3. Valve lash is another.

To find out who is noisy, take a long wooden dowel, grasp the rod with thumb over tip. Move the other end to an injector body. Look at the wires coming off the injector body [intake side]. They are green or some sort of color that tells the code besides what is written on the injector.

Touch that injector (you won't get a shock) with the dowel's tip. Put your thumb knuckle up to your ear, and listen to the tick. Is that the tick?

Touch the valve cover area all over. Pin pointing with your ear, if the valves are ticking? Not there?

Who cares if the PAIR is ticking. It means it is working, but that meant, if there is some sort of PAIR noise, that is a good sign.

What is the tire pressure? 42psi front and rear saves a lot of gas, you be picking up the pen and paper again.



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21744



Joined: 11/06/09

Posts: 175

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/14/12 9:02 PM

AMEN!

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COOTER


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Location:

South West Florida

Joined: 04/27/11

Posts: 1342

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/14/12 11:03 PM

My 2008 gets 37.2mpg and I weigh 170-180lbs depending on what buffet I’m walking out of but as Hub stated check your tire pressure!



Team panda (ride safe ride sober)

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miles1975


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Joined: 02/23/12

Posts: 27

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/15/12 11:51 AM

I get around 34mpg in my 2010. I ride in some pretty heavy traffic though in the D.C. area. On open highway it does go up to the low 40s. This bike really doesn't like the stop and go I have come to find out. But I knew the mileage wasn't going to be great when I bought it...My engine ticks, but it is the same I have heard on other ones.

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Caroobs


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Joined: 03/14/12

Posts: 273

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/17/12 10:45 PM

Still working on finding a wooden dowel to check on the ticking like you mentioned. With the faring off, it sure does sound like it's coming from right around the air intake tubes below the air box (no, I really don't know what that's all called).

In the mean time I took off the faring for cleaning and maintenance and found some oil seepage:



I'm not a mechanic, and this seems small, but I imagine ALL the oil is supposed to stay inside the bike... Is this really bad news, or only kinda bad news?


* Last updated by: Caroobs on 3/17/2012 @ 10:47 PM *



'09 Candy Green ZX-14, flies out, Yoshi slipons, Pipercross air filter, PAIR blocked, PC-V, Speedohealer, Illumiglo gauges, Throttlemeister cruise control, Monster shorty levers, Corbin seat, 35w HID lights.

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phatphil



Joined: 09/20/11

Posts: 64

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/17/12 10:59 PM

I'm averaging between 31-33mpg as per dash readout. Not great. Clicking just for 2-3 seconds at startup then gone. If it continued, I'd wonder.

If you ask/wonder about 1st gear clunk, that's normal too. I find if tap into first quickly and firmly, it still clunks but it just does so more solidly with less crunching. Same with shift into second.

If you're feeling your bike is slow on the street, I wouldn't know. Mine feels as absolutely wicked fast as day one, if not faster. 50, 000+kms...

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13917

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/17/12 11:22 PM

Yes, I'd have that repaired. It's a simple procedure. Maybe under a hundred in parts, not including shims? Labor? I don't know? Since the leak is past a 'seep,' more a wet-pressure leak, you are losing little by little at the crankcase. But to a mechanic or the novice with a few proper tools, this is not something for you to take on.

I only say this being, you have the cover off, might as well check shim clearances. Then, here is the big, 'gotta have some mechanical know how going in,' to finish off the job. And that calls for removing the cams and all that. This is more for the dealer level to tackle this one. You have the parts in few days, the experience, the guarantee backup from the dealer's parts and labor. Only thing left is how much?



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/17/12 11:35 PM

Anyone ever seen a GOLD colored valve cover?On a 14?How about that black 'orange peel' paint on there?Anyone have a head with exhaust port painting looking like that?Been a while since I had my 14....something doesn't look right there.IDK.Unless that's the oil that's building up on there?THAT would be a LOT of oil getting out.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 3/17/2012 @ 11:42 PM *

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Caroobs


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Joined: 03/14/12

Posts: 273

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/18/12 8:56 AM

I think that's just something with the lighting in the picture. My valve cover is the standard brushed nickle color.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I don't even want to know how much they will charge for that. I don't think the hourly rates here are bad, but they're rate of labor seems high; Last front tire I replaced cost me $80 in labor. I swear every time I go to my local kawa dealership I feel like I'm getting ripped off. I sure wouldn't mind more local options.

It's been several years since I've done much more than basic maintenance, but how hard can it be to replace a valve cover gasket, esp if I have the shop manual?



'09 Candy Green ZX-14, flies out, Yoshi slipons, Pipercross air filter, PAIR blocked, PC-V, Speedohealer, Illumiglo gauges, Throttlemeister cruise control, Monster shorty levers, Corbin seat, 35w HID lights.

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Caroobs


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Joined: 03/14/12

Posts: 273

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/18/12 5:32 PM

So reading around it seems like this leak is fairly common on ZX14s... Many people seem to recommend using some washers to get a better seal around that gasket, and I think I'll try that method before I spend hundreds of dollars getting this thing changed out. I'll keep updated to see how it goes.



'09 Candy Green ZX-14, flies out, Yoshi slipons, Pipercross air filter, PAIR blocked, PC-V, Speedohealer, Illumiglo gauges, Throttlemeister cruise control, Monster shorty levers, Corbin seat, 35w HID lights.

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caps


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Location: Tampa, FL

Joined: 03/16/12

Posts: 205

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/19/12 6:22 PM

Any chance you have a link to that?



2006 Ninja ZX-14
2010 Ninja 250
2012 Ducati Monster 696

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Caroobs


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Joined: 03/14/12

Posts: 273

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/19/12 7:39 PM

http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-14-forum/32552-oil-leak-valves-cover.html

The fix that several people said works:
Sorry to hear that Freddy-HOWEVER-it can be easily fixed by you-IF you have any mechanical/assembly skills at all(which it sounds like you do).First off-it's NOT the gasket.The valve cover bolts were machined just a tad too long,OR the threaded hole was not quite deep enough-one or the other-doesn't really matter.Simple cheap fix that works-remove whatever you need to there on the side of the bike,remove those front and rear cover bolts.(just the two on the outboard side).Place TWO each M10 washers on the bolts.3/8ths M10's.Reinstall bolts(a dab of red loctite on the tips).Tighten down CAREFULLY and watch your gasket seal as you tighten(do not tighten one end first,then the other-go back and forth keeping the pressure even).It will begin to deform ever so slightly along the seal.DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN.Stop when the bolt is snug,and the gasket is barely deforming from the front part along the side there and around the back of the seal.This will permanently repair your seal leak.Wipe down really well,and go ride.Come back,reclean any residual oil(which will probably appear for a few times).Once all the old oil is gone,you should have a perfect seal.(if not,go back in and tighten a bit more both bolts)I would not use the manual's torque settings-those were used for the stock bolt and "unwashered" situation.So they MAY not be adequate for this new configuration.Take yer time and don't overdo the squeeze there."

I know on my '09 those bolts were awfully hard to get to. One guy recommended just putting a line of gasket maker across the gasket, and this is actually the route I took. I had to drop the radiator to be able to fit hands in there, but there's now a nice new gasket line on the front of the cover. Looks like craps, but it's all hidden anyway. Just hope this doesn't cause a problem down the road...



'09 Candy Green ZX-14, flies out, Yoshi slipons, Pipercross air filter, PAIR blocked, PC-V, Speedohealer, Illumiglo gauges, Throttlemeister cruise control, Monster shorty levers, Corbin seat, 35w HID lights.

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caps


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Location: Tampa, FL

Joined: 03/16/12

Posts: 205

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/19/12 7:47 PM

Keep us updated on how that works.



2006 Ninja ZX-14
2010 Ninja 250
2012 Ducati Monster 696

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13917

Is jolly here?
03/19/12 9:21 PM

First off-it's NOT the gasket.The valve cover bolts were machined just a tad too long,OR the threaded hole was not quite deep enough-one or the other-doesn't really matter.

First off, jolly has his head up his ass. I've been banned forum that place or I'd have ankle bracelets around his wrists, both occupying the same bracelet.

'The valve cover bolts were machined just a tad too long,' says the assholecraniuimthink if that is the case, then all the bikes should leak with extended bolts. Stupid! Flat the fuck plain stupid! The next lamebrain thinkass out his end is the surface of each head has a quality control problem, the factory has yet to catch it, but his ass says different. IDIOT!

Other than than, it really don't matter:

1. The bolt is too long.
2. The machining is hit and miss.
3. The rubber seals up because it shrunk there and can be loaded like buckle the cover/load the threads/stretch the bolt some. Some idiot needs to explain 1 and 2 to 500 thousand bolts, punched out of the same cast, there are long ones and short ones, not spec ones. Make perfect sense?



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21744



Joined: 11/06/09

Posts: 175

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/19/12 9:55 PM

I wonder if all of this crap comes from one over filling the crank case? My old 08 Silver ZX-14 never took a drop of oil between 49000+ miles of yearly oil changes.

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conneaut14


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Location: Conneaut, OH

Joined: 04/05/09

Posts: 418

RE: gas mileage seems low
03/20/12 12:31 PM

The ticking you are hearing may also be the noisy tip over sensor



2009 Victory Vision Tour Premium
www.ohioriders.net

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