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Thread: Clutch chatter

Created on: 03/12/14 06:48 AM

Replies: 8

thebiglebowski



Location: pennsylvania

Joined: 02/12/14

Posts: 63

Clutch chatter
03/12/14 6:48 AM

Noticing this bike has a good bit of clutch chatter at idle in N , is that fairly common? I know my Z had it but it's more noticeable with the 14r. Running red line 10w40 btw.



2013 zx14r black/green SE

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13801

RE: Clutch chatter
03/12/14 8:06 AM

Throttle Sync Pulse = One throttle slide is more advanced than the other throttle plate. The more linkage tying the plates/slides the more off-pulse or clutch bang. Pull the clutch lever in the noise goes away. Why? First pulse the crank moves smoothly. Next bang sequence; the next slide is retarded/advanced; this off-sets the smooth pulse; the tangs in the clutch bang into the big clutch outer; makes a bellow sound off of that big basket.

How do I solve this? = Throttle sync. Make the sync equal so each pulse is even and sequentially smooth.
How can I tell? = Pull the clutch lever in. Did the noise stop? Yes. You let the plates float so they are not tied as one unit to bang into the basket.



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thebiglebowski



Location: pennsylvania

Joined: 02/12/14

Posts: 63

RE: Clutch chatter
03/12/14 8:32 AM

Throttle sync pulse this similiar to throttle sync on a carb bike ?



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Hub


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RE: Clutch chatter
03/12/14 8:53 AM

Correct. I used plate for throttle body and slide for carb. Both cause the same effect = Universal Clutch Knock



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thebiglebowski



Location: pennsylvania

Joined: 02/12/14

Posts: 63

RE: Clutch chatter
03/12/14 9:19 AM

Hmm good to know . Any write ups around on doing a throttle sync to the zx14?



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Hub


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RE: Clutch chatter
03/12/14 11:44 AM

There are 5 steps to syncing this bike.
There is 1 step to syncing this bike.

The 1 Step:

This is a stock, never removed or rebuilt the throttle body. The throttle body is a 2-piece unit. That means 2 throttle plates are machined perfectly squared onto each shaft. Since there was no slow needles removed as in a rebuilding of the throttle body, all that is needed is to sync the 2 shafts.

Sync both plates sides by using #1 cylinder and #4 cylinder. Plug the PAIR, warm the engine. Note where the needles or manometer liquid line up? You are watching a vacuum pull and that means how strong the pull can lift the liquid up. So the weaker the compression, the lower the line is how you chase lines up and down the unit. Don't let that confuse you. There is also the change in pull via throttle opening of the opposing plates. That brings us back to that even pull [IF] we have EVEN compression across the board as well. If we match a low to a high compression cylinder, big knocking occurs chasing that leveling. This air pulling also compensates for that pull of each needle or liquid rise. Make sense we see the 2 pulling differences come into play [if compression is even]?

The 5 Step Pull:

The throttle body uses a recovery system for the gas vapor. There are 4 air screws that are used to smooth the pulses even more. However, 2 air screws are closed, the other 2 are used for the vacuum [is one direction] and sucking out of [is the other] direction. Since these are factory presets, there is no need to tamper with the air screw settings.

Where the 5 step kicks in is for syncing that rebuilding of the throttle body. Working with the air screws, air is going to enter the cylinder sooner and displace the fuel coming in. If we shut down the air screws, we richen the idle, and only have the 2 shafts as the sync move. If we open more air screw, this too means it will lean from idle to WOT. There is no closing of that needle opening at any range remember.

If we open each air screw a 1/2 or a 1/4 turn, etc., we can adjust the lean idle to rich idle. We also can watch the 2 shafts that were in perfect sync, go out of sync. Watch how the air screws react. Say we close the air screws and all we have pulling under/over the plate opening is that air pull. So we know the shafts are perfectly sunk > air screws closed.

We look at this as 1 step is to sync both shafts as 1. Enter the 4 air screws, we now have to blend 5 variables. Say we have our shafts perfectly sunk. We first never tighten the air screws down. We feel the first resistance and stop or we ruin the taper of the needle. We use the sync tool to show how far a 1/2 turn is? We cannot exactly know how deep into the resistance is at a closed setting so as not to touch the taper to the body. The other needle will never be exact as the first needle's position. The sync will point that out. So salvage the gorilla move on the taper.

Remember the taper is key: not to damage that you damage the throttle body too. The sync saves that kind of move you stay away from. You are looking at 4 air pulses now entering this new offsetting of the shaft pulses is to balance the 4 air screws to themselves.

The manual explains it another way, but if you know your pulse, pull, strength of compression to cause the vacuum moving on a gauge, meaning, the 2 air doors; the air under/over the plate; the 4 air holes; now make 5 screw movements. Sort of see the theory behind the move of 5 screws vs. 1 sync move? I have video but it's too off the wall. See if this works?

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/wazfst1tyme/AirSmoothers_zps1d709b65.jpg



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thebiglebowski



Location: pennsylvania

Joined: 02/12/14

Posts: 63

RE: Clutch chatter
03/12/14 1:12 PM

Ok great info . I actually synced a twin cylinder bike once with 2 carbs so am semi familiar with the process. I actually used 2 bottles and a tube in each then siliconed everything ( followed a YouTube vid) and that was my tool for getting it synced right . I'll let you know how I make out when I tackle it . What's the reason the bike falls out of perfect sync/ how often does it usually need to be done ?



2013 zx14r black/green SE

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Hub


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RE: Clutch chatter
03/12/14 1:43 PM

The center screw flattens, the tang too has a wear that digs out that flat part of the tang. The screw can walk even though the spring holds it in place. We are talking minor wear in thousands of miles between sync. Compression changes and you compensate for those miles. Old days took hundreds of miles to go out, but there was more linkage and arms to wear out slide lifts and all that.

The 14 has about 7,500 mile intervals between tunes. If you are past that mileage, never had it done, there's your bellow banging.



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thebiglebowski



Location: pennsylvania

Joined: 02/12/14

Posts: 63

RE: Clutch chatter
03/12/14 2:39 PM

ok.. guess the other question is it hurting anything the longer it goes like that? it will always have some chatter right, the sync doesnt take it away 100% does it?



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