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Thread: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!

Created on: 02/07/13 07:08 PM

Replies: 23

Kruz


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Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/07/13 7:08 PM

All it took was a $225, 21 amp-hour Shorai LFX21A6-BS12 Battery. This is a lot of battery and a lot of cold cranking amps being delivered. I noticed something funny after I installed it a few weeks ago, or rather something missing and that was the infamous ZX14 rattle on startup. Even after sitting in the cold for a week, it now cranks with authority and no more tensioner rattle. The only thing I can figure is the rapid turnover is repriming the tensioner, whatever... it's gone now and I couldn't be happier!



2021 Aprilia RSV4 2020 BMW S1000RR 2016 ZX-10R KRT 2016 959 Panigale Red 2015 CBR1000RR SP Repsol 2011 ZX-10R Ebony 2009 ZX-6R Lime Green 2006 ZX-14 Red 2004 VTX 1300C Candy Red "For we walk by faith and not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7

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smokinstorm


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RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/08/13 6:44 PM

I put in a modified ZX12 tentioner some time ago. Same result. No more rattle at startup or shutdown after a pass at the track. Couldn't be happier.



2009 Monster Edition ZX14, 70" wheelbase, 16-46 gearing, air shifter, Shinko Drag Radial. 2005 Turbo Hayabusa, 74" wheelbase, 16-43 gearing, foot shifted, Shinko Drag Radial. 2001 GSXR 1000, long, low and not stock.

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Danno


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Southwestern Illinois

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RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/08/13 9:52 PM

Never had the rattle here and now I never will-spent $50 for the APE manual tensioner. I'm wondering if it may free up a small amount of BHP since there's no constant spring pressure on the chain. Not that it matters.



'07 CPB Blue; ZGST windscreen with MRA X-screen adjustable spoiler, tube bar adaptor, PC III, ATRE,BMC air filter, modified stock seat with 2nd Look cover,Scorpion Flame Ti slip-ons, Galfer rotors front and rear, braided-stainless lines, C-F 10R front fender, C-F hugger, C-F inner fairing panels, painted foreman's fins with faux C-F inlay, polished rim lips wired for heated gear and accessories, Givi V35 side bags and E41 topcase with SW-Motech qd mounts

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Romans


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Location: Toronto,ON

Joined: 02/13/09

Posts: 5933

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/09/13 4:54 AM

Never had the rattle here and now

My 2007 started to rattle at 12,000 Kilo. My 2010 at 2500 kilo. Danno, You maybe one of the lucky ones and never get it.

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21238

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/09/13 5:18 AM

You maybe one of the lucky ones and never get it.

One of the lucky ones that had a CCT that just barely snapped into the present setting. Those of us not so lucky blokes have a CCT somewhere in between. If you're really not lucky, the CCT is hanging on the edge, ready to spring. Ride another 20K miles and it might just ratchet up a notch. ..or just get an APE and problem is solved + safer for hard use of engine.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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lytnin


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Location: St. Louis MO

Joined: 02/08/09

Posts: 1006

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/09/13 5:26 AM

I thought the cct was all hydraulic and no ratchet



2015 FJR1300A 2008 ZX14 2001 ZRX1200

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13917

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/09/13 9:30 AM

The plunger walks out as the chain slipper wears a groove in it. The oil is like a cushion against the plunger and that small movement is the rattle IF the one hold spring expands.

1. Set Ring Spring = This is just for assembly so the plunger stays recessed in place in the cct holder. If you eliminated it, there is no way to install the cct, because this would stick the plunger out via the heavy spring inside the plunger. That is why when you set the valve lash, you remove the tensioner to remove the cams. Then, when it's time to reinstall the cct, you sunk the plunger into the body so it sits short in the holder. You come around with a screwdriver and push the back of the chain where you think the cct sits? This pushes up against the chain slipper up against the set ring, forces the set ring to move out into it's own groove it sits in. Then out comes the plunger. So the set ring has to wrap around the plunger, or if it is weak and wide, it cannot wrap itself around the one special groove of the plunger itself. It needs this hug around the plunger to hold it and keep it from flying out on assembly of the cams and such.

2. Plunger's Ring = This too is the same wired spring steel. It is round in design and this too needs to be carefully collapsed closed to [just] wrap around the plunger itself. Think of the plunger's groove as fish scales. It rises over the scales or grooves only one way. If it comes back the spring locks up against the fish scale moving from moving backwards too. So the spring sort of holds the plunger until the oil assist unloads the ring some. And since the plunger can only move out one way, you now have [that spring expanded outside] the plunger's groove. Guess how that noise is made now? A fixable spring that is now spread out over a plunger. That rattle over the fish scales, is the spring taking a beating.

3. Ring Repair = This is nothing more than grabbing both ends of the open rings, implode them some so they wrap around the groove like it used to. Did you cause too much cling-around-the-plunger with the spring? No. Why? Because one is, the plunger stopper expands out via the one taper made to that plunger's tip sort of. It stops it from flying out of the cct holder, but expands you hit the slipper. The second part is the plunger's ring expands over the fish scale's taper when it is ready for wear [and moves out] meaning, don't put a kink at the bottom of the spring!!!

The more real of the story? As soon as I pulled the bike off the dyno, started the bike again: it rattled. Set the valves at about 18K and from then on, I haven't heard a peep from the cct.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21238

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/09/13 9:35 AM

I thought the cct was all hydraulic and no ratchet

CCT INSTALLATION

See steps 5-13



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Danno


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Southwestern Illinois

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RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/09/13 9:41 AM

The plunger is on a spring with two wire clips and notches to prevent it from backing off. At least that's the design intent. If you have to pull the cams, the CCT must come out and be re-set and held at minimum length with the wire clips. After installation, a long rod or screwdriver or drift must be slid down the cc tunnel and whacked to release the plunger and re-tension the chain. The APE manual tensioner eliminates all that rigamarole because it's just a threaded plunger with a locknut. I think it also eliminates a bit of friction since there's no constant spring pressure on the chain guide. The plunger has a couple MM of play for spring tension and if the chain has enough slack the inner clip will allow it to move out a notch. The notches on the plunger are beveled to allow the clip to slip one way but not the other. The outer clip is just there to hold the plunger in place to reset. It's a diabolical device in my estimation.


* Last updated by: Danno on 2/9/2013 @ 9:45 AM *



'07 CPB Blue; ZGST windscreen with MRA X-screen adjustable spoiler, tube bar adaptor, PC III, ATRE,BMC air filter, modified stock seat with 2nd Look cover,Scorpion Flame Ti slip-ons, Galfer rotors front and rear, braided-stainless lines, C-F 10R front fender, C-F hugger, C-F inner fairing panels, painted foreman's fins with faux C-F inlay, polished rim lips wired for heated gear and accessories, Givi V35 side bags and E41 topcase with SW-Motech qd mounts

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Danno


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Southwestern Illinois

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RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/09/13 9:49 AM

Also, the looser the chain is, the less the spring tension is. As the plunger ratchets outwasrd, the spring is weaker. This may have more to do with the rattle than loss of hydraulic prime. Not sure at this point if the unit haas oil pressure or just takes oil by gravity feed.



'07 CPB Blue; ZGST windscreen with MRA X-screen adjustable spoiler, tube bar adaptor, PC III, ATRE,BMC air filter, modified stock seat with 2nd Look cover,Scorpion Flame Ti slip-ons, Galfer rotors front and rear, braided-stainless lines, C-F 10R front fender, C-F hugger, C-F inner fairing panels, painted foreman's fins with faux C-F inlay, polished rim lips wired for heated gear and accessories, Givi V35 side bags and E41 topcase with SW-Motech qd mounts

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/09/13 10:16 AM

I think it has a small feed channel going to it...looks like that in the manual.That APE is the best way to stop rattle IMO.Second only to getting the 2012 or 2013....they solved the riddle of the rattle on those;)


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/9/2013 @ 10:19 AM *

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Danno


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Southwestern Illinois

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RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/09/13 6:58 PM

Someone else who has a 2012 said that. What, exactly did they do to solve it?



'07 CPB Blue; ZGST windscreen with MRA X-screen adjustable spoiler, tube bar adaptor, PC III, ATRE,BMC air filter, modified stock seat with 2nd Look cover,Scorpion Flame Ti slip-ons, Galfer rotors front and rear, braided-stainless lines, C-F 10R front fender, C-F hugger, C-F inner fairing panels, painted foreman's fins with faux C-F inlay, polished rim lips wired for heated gear and accessories, Givi V35 side bags and E41 topcase with SW-Motech qd mounts

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

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RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/09/13 8:17 PM

I really don't know....but it works great!;)Now that you mention it...I'll look in the manual for the part and see if I can tell what's changed.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/9/2013 @ 8:18 PM *

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battleaxe


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south shields. u.k

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RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/10/13 2:46 AM

said this in the past, mine sounded like a chain saw on start up, APE been in now for 13000 mile, silence is golden, only way to go.
B-A

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Romans


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Location: Toronto,ON

Joined: 02/13/09

Posts: 5933

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/10/13 8:19 AM

As soon as I pulled the bike off the dyno, started the bike again: it rattled. Set the valves at about 18K and from then on, I haven't heard a peep from the cct.

hmmm, why would the hub have his bike on the Dyno,,,,,, This New Hub must be imposter.Old Hub stayed stock,,, or did he ?

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Kruz


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Republic of Texas

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Posts: 6866

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/10/13 6:45 PM

The new Hub is actually Grn in disguise....lol !



2021 Aprilia RSV4 2020 BMW S1000RR 2016 ZX-10R KRT 2016 959 Panigale Red 2015 CBR1000RR SP Repsol 2011 ZX-10R Ebony 2009 ZX-6R Lime Green 2006 ZX-14 Red 2004 VTX 1300C Candy Red "For we walk by faith and not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7

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Rook


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Posts: 21238

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/10/13 7:00 PM

BTW, heard someone got a new bike a couple days ago and didn't tell NOBODY!



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/10/13 7:03 PM

Who would dare such blasphemy?Off with his head!

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13917

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/10/13 7:08 PM


* Last updated by: Hub on 2/10/2013 @ 7:09 PM *



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Kruz


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Republic of Texas

Joined: 03/16/09

Posts: 6866

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/10/13 7:14 PM

Grn did you get your new set of wheels?



2021 Aprilia RSV4 2020 BMW S1000RR 2016 ZX-10R KRT 2016 959 Panigale Red 2015 CBR1000RR SP Repsol 2011 ZX-10R Ebony 2009 ZX-6R Lime Green 2006 ZX-14 Red 2004 VTX 1300C Candy Red "For we walk by faith and not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

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RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/10/13 7:18 PM

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ninjamaster


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Location: Cody,Wy.

Joined: 03/04/09

Posts: 415

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/12/13 7:19 PM

I need to replace mine(should've had my friend do it when he did the valves)Do you have to take the vavle cover of to check or is it ok to just pull it out and replace it?



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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/12/13 7:22 PM

Those factory tensioners are such a hassle...yes...you do need to remove the cover....to reinstall.You really should get the APE...so much simpler.If your valve cover gasket is not leaking....you're asking for it by opening that up.Unless ya like that kind of thing....taking stuff off and putting it back on....when you can do it a different and reliable way.S'up to you.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/12/2013 @ 7:26 PM *

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Rook


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Posts: 21238

RE: Automatic Cam Chain Tensioner Rattle Finally Gone!
02/12/13 8:07 PM

2 screws. Hold the tensioner in as you remove the screws, It will push out on its own from its own spring tension so hold it in while the screws come out. Just have a look at the tutorial posted above. The APE installs just by popping it in the hole and tightenning the screws. Then you gotta set the APE but no need to take any covers off if all your doing is installing a manual CCT.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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