Brocks project bike at the track

Hmm... i would rather reprogram the script for the secondary throttle actuator. Removing flies compromises KTRC yes?

"Removing flies compromises KTRC yes?"Not enough info yet to actually be able to say that...this bike has some technological upgrades to it that none of these guys know for sure WHAT's doing WHAT and when.Without flies...the Ktrc still works.The bike brain doesn't KNOW there are no secondaries.It's reading wheel spin.And adjusting accordingly.The fly removal is giving the fueling a different curve however.Which means...the 'wheelspin' and such MAY occur differently with the 'enhanced' fueling situation.The secondary plate KTRC part is also coupled with the ignition timing.Fueling as well.For smoothness when it DOES actuate.The timing is what's allowing the wheel to hook up again....not the secondaries.I think that's what it is...if I understand the KTRC as presented by Kawasaki.

I'm not so sure that's what he's saying here(compromised KTRC).Apparently,the engineers have a fail safe engine command going on in case of overpowering at a particular situation(aside from the KTRC)Something to do with throttle application and how it's being done on acceleration(s)...but not every hard acceleration(a bit of a secret with Kawasaki?).Only certain types.Kind of a KTRC override thing?It would be in EXTREME situations only.Not just 'spinning a tire'.Lee Pritchard said the 'fail safe' deal didn't seem to kick in for him with no secondaries.This is for Drag Strip performance however.Street riding...I think it would be prudent to leave em in there...and as you say...reprogram them to open sooner and quicker.I've gotten the Guhl flash..it does just that...opens em up sooner and quicker.I've not found any glitches on accelearations yet....only the KTRC actuating.As it's programmed to do.I think if you attempt to ride this machine at stoplights and such like you would going for broke on a Drag strip....you 'might' see this KTRC 'override' deal kick in...but it would most likely be very hard to notice.Interesting stuff.Brock's really gettin with this R&D thing on this new bike .I've felt from day one that this bike really IS a different deal from the previous models.This motor runs different.And the whole package just 'feels' very different.I know people thought I was full of ca ca...probably still do.Who cares...I LOVE my new bike....

THANKS for that vid there...very cool.Lots of good stuff in there!

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/9/2012 @ 6:13 PM *

no hagrid it does not, my secondaries have been out since November 2011 and the traction control still works, I would like to have it programmed so it would only work when "I" turn it on,

wee

@Grn: Well... you've helped me make a decision. The only modification i was considering is the ECU.

Ive never been wild about the whole power commander and map download dealie... i wouldnt exploit the advantages that equipment affords.
I just need a couple things tweaked in the ECU i already have.

And Guhl is only a couple of hours down the road.

Im very impressed with Brock and his outfit... he seems to really enjoy what he does. That probably helps him to be so thourough
with his projects and makes him very handy with customer support.

@Wheelie: any idea what else KTRC uses to intervene? ignition or injector interrupt maybe?
Also... isnt Lee P. smokinZX14 on Bikeland? Thanks for the info on your scoot!

* Last updated by: hagrid on 5/9/2012 @ 6:29 PM *

Wheelie and Smokin and those great guys are Draggers...they're after big numbers(or small...whatever)...their experiences and expectations are most likely gonna be a TAD different than somebody like me...who wants the performance of my 14r as stock as possible....without interfering with any of the cool stuff I think makes this bike what it is for me.I went with the Brock's pipe...single..full system...PCV with his map.Guhl flash(Same as Brock's).The only thing I have now is the Guhl ECU flash.That's fine for me.Reinstalled all my stock stuff again.I'm VERY happy with her.I don't need any more.I'm happy for Wheelie and Smokin and the rest(that vid of Wheelie,and those of Lee...just awesome)But that isn't me.I'd get killed tryin to live upto that kind of performance stuff out here on the roads.Best for me to just leave well enough alone in my case!She's plenty fun as is.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/9/2012 @ 6:50 PM *

Grn14, my 14r is smooth as silk just puttin around, believe it or not, the midrange power is just as important as max.

wee

Ya...I hope ya don't think I was implying that you somehow had a different smooth running bike with those out.I've thought about taking mine out.I just don't feel like pulling that tank.That's what's REALLY stopping me.Should I pull em?Nobody has really said what kind of difference having those out has been...except for Smokin...I think he mentioned it...but didn't really elaborate on how the bike engine performed at idle and takeoff(and slow running just above idle and such) other than it really went....that wasn't real clear to me.My bike(and all of the 14r's) already 'take off' well.Maybe you could compare the difference to like,an o6 stock and then removing them.THAT I could visualize having done that myself on my 07.I've got the Guhl flash...it did pep it up just a bit on the very low end roll on to open 1st gear takeoffs.And removing those...will that mean a remap?

I've got the PCV...and not yet convinced that I don't want to use it(it's not hooked up right now).

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/9/2012 @ 7:13 PM *

No comparison in the 06-012 low power with secondaries, 012 pulls hard as you know at low rpm, unless you are a drag racer leave them in, if it does help it aint much. I just want every hp I can get all thru the rpm range.

wee

Okay...I will then(leave em in).I appreciate your response.Thanks man....yer vid was just great.Hope you'll have some more soon!

Will the "safety" system override the re-flashed ecu and prevent the flies from opening early? Which program "wins" in the end?

Chop Top makes a good point! From the description of effects, that is exactly what I would expect as well.

This "fail safe" safety seems to reside at a more primary level than the mapping for mods, etc. Override trumps reflash, then. You would have to go in specifically and take out the override to disable the mode.

Or............you can do what Brock did and just remove the flies and let the "fail safe" override send its shut down orders to non-existant valves!

Programming: "Hello? Anyone home?" Flies: "I'm out just now, please leave a message. I'll pick up in 8.8 seconds." LOL

Here is the deal. I was watching the sub shaft move using a camera aimed at that action years ago. The gps and the sub are connected as the gov-smoother. The manual says, 'we take measures to drop the hp from Brock is our safety valve.'

2hp drop at the top has to be programmed. That blade will not make 2 hp right off the top of the rpm band. Sounds more like fuel/ign/sub droppings.

Ignition...that's the primary measure the KTRC is already using to 'override' any wheelspin.You guys read already that removing those secondaries had no effect on power delivery...except that it allowed a bigger a/f off idle.Which gave it...well...SOME HP/Tq.increase.Wheelie said..."You don't need to remove em for street running....I want every bit of HP all the way through the powerband".I think what I'm understanding about his statemant,and the KTRC in general...is...the ignition is adjusted from the ECU as the KTRC senses wheelspin between front and back wheels.The POWER itself is there,but the electrics hamper it just enough to 'fix' the situation.The secondaries are not primarily used for 'cutting power'...probably more like a buffer to make the 'cut' smooth.You guys know how the 06,07 changed in power delivery after removing the secondaries.It was more abrupt.So we used a PC to 'smooth out' the bottom jolt.We coudn't depend on the flies anymore to do the minimal smoothing for a nice transition from closed to very open.The power curve changed to a lower RPM range...and all the way on up(from the a/f).And I think that's what Wee was saying....MORE power earlier in the rev range...and all the way up.If a guy's not after ungodly launches,or concerned about having MORE HP and tq in his midrange...then he doesn't NEED to remove em....but he won't be able to 'remove' the wheelspin that he'll always get with this bike at any given time...The KTRC ignition thing handles that.This bike inherently spins the wheel.It just does.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/10/2012 @ 8:40 AM *