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Thread: engine break in

Created on: 08/08/14 08:25 PM

Replies: 22

killbill



Joined: 08/05/14

Posts: 4

engine break in
08/08/14 8:25 PM

Not going to start a debate on hard vs easy break ins I've read enuff threads on that. Im picking up my new zx14 tomorrow and opting for the easy break in, i have to do some highway miles to get home maybe 30 minutes or so as I have to go over water then I can take country roads, are highway mikes a problem for break ins? I hear you aren't supposed to keep it at the same rpm for long

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21075

RE: engine break in
08/08/14 9:55 PM

I don't really think anyone knows what is best but varying rpm a lot can't hurt. I doubt it matters. Kawi already redlined your motor. Do what you feel is best. My soft break in didn't seem to hurt a thing on the 14. The valve cover leaked but I'm sure it would have anyway (I think i got that whole deal figured out now. It's the ringos. They need to be replaced periodically). The peak rpm break in of the busa hasn't seemed to hurt a thing either.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13883

RE: engine break in
08/09/14 5:53 AM

There are big, stationary v-8 engines pumping water out of a canal for the farm land around here. Figure that was one steady engine rpm running since day one and they do not smoke when running. And when the bike is broken in and you are riding a sustained 30 minutes, does that after effect make the rings smoke? No. Would riding a new bike for 30 minutes about to cause damage, poor ring seal?

I've got a bridge in n.y. to sell you.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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VicThing


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Joined: 07/17/14

Posts: 2402

RE: engine break in
08/09/14 2:30 PM

I followed the recommended break-in procedure. My bike is definitely not "down on power" (neither is my 10 yo truck which I also broke in using the recommendations, 100,000 miles later still runs like brand new). Also, what the redline-it bunch don't realize is that you are not just breaking in the engine, you are breaking in the entire motorcycle.

Grats on your 14. Take care of it, it'll be a great bike. Mine has been.

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Rktsled


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Location: Big D

Joined: 08/10/14

Posts: 365

RE: engine break in
08/11/14 9:54 AM

Break-in procedures are like politics, everyone has a different opinion but a lot of them have no basis in facts. The factory procedures work well but are a little on the conservative side. One thing everyone does, or should, agree on is getting the rings properly seated. The ONLY way to get the rings seated is having them under load by acceleration and not running at a steady speed. Use 2nd or 3rd gear and use a combination of acceleration and deceleration frequently for the first couple of hundred miles. Do not use synthetic oil until you have at least 1500 miles, the stuff is TO slick and the rings need that long to become fully seated.

The ZX is an awesome bike with a fantastic motor that begs to be turned loose!



Rktsled
2013 ZX-14R with lots of mods, quick and comfortable.

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13883

RE: engine break in
08/11/14 10:38 AM

... everyone has a different opinion but a lot of them have no basis in facts. Do not use synthetic oil until you have at least 1500 miles, the stuff is TO slick and the rings need that long to become fully seated.

Back in the 1990's the corvettes came with a hood/firewall/engine bay sticker saying to use Mobil-1 oil. So, the first oil was syn in basically an aluminum engine. So are you saying do not use Mobil-1 GM in your number 1 car? Gaskets/orings/rubber seals looks like apples to apple to me. That's my opinion.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Rktsled


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Location: Big D

Joined: 08/10/14

Posts: 365

RE: engine break in
08/12/14 12:07 PM

I love synthetic oil and use it in everything I own that uses oil including my lawn mower! I have done a lot of research and looked at a lot of hard data over the years concerning break-in procedures, what works and what doesn't. The old saying "ride it like you stole it" has some truth in it, loading the rings under pressure to obtain better seating and better performance in the long term. I am including a link to an article that explains this better than I can. Again, this is only my opinion which is based on a lot of years of experience (I'm 63).

Read this article and if it makes sense to you then follow the advice, not trying to tell anyone how to treat the machine THEY paid for.

http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Have a great day and always look out for the other guy!


* Last updated by: Rktsled on 8/12/2014 @ 12:08 PM *



Rktsled
2013 ZX-14R with lots of mods, quick and comfortable.

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sweetfa65


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Location: South Australia

Joined: 07/22/13

Posts: 371

RE: engine break in
08/12/14 4:30 PM

Last ZX14 I followed the book. This time I followed the regime of lots of hard acceleration and engine braking to load the rings, and varied rev ranges, creeping up on the higher RPM as I approached 1000 km. I think that employs an aspect of the various principles. Just avoid sitting on the same rpm and load for extended periods. Enjoy the bike and don't stress it too much. The bike will look after itself.



Look ahead, relax & GO HARD!
2013 ZX14R SE ABS (aka:ANIML).Polished wheels,Supersprox sprocket,clear filmed paintwork,frame caps,rear seat cowl,ceramic coated Akrapovic headers,carbon Yoshimura R77s,H9 modded lighting,Zero Gravity screens,Ventura rack,tinted lenses,Genmar risers,Throttlemeisters,Pazzo levers,custom stainless radiator guard,Yoshimura fender eliminator,Woolich Log Box Pro,Zeitronix O2 controller,ECU flash.

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VicThing


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Joined: 07/17/14

Posts: 2402

RE: engine break in
08/12/14 5:06 PM

Here's my deal. My days of old-wives-tales and backyard grease monkey shit are over. Can read anecdotal bullshit on anything. The whole break-it-in-like-a-racer bs is just that and the reasoning for doing it just as specious. "well the racers do it, they build performance engines, so I should do it because well I want a performance engine." Sounds pretty stupid when I put it like that, doesn't it? This doesn't even make sense, unless you are breaking in a racing bike and doing a rapid break-in for specific reasons.

Dimwits like that douche motoman are only looking for hits to their site. They provide what you really want to hear, that you should take your brand new motorcycle out and beat the piss out of it! Who doesn't want to do this? I mean right?

and people, mostly the dimwhitted types, just yum it up in droves. "Oh man, do the motoman break-in. Yeah man, he's broke in 300 motorcycles this way, and he says all this stuff about cross hatching and dynos...man he must really know what he's doing! Screw that factory recommendation, so what if they actually performed testing and analysis and based their recommendations on facts based on service histories, performance and longevity. MOTOMAN BROKE IN 300 ENGINES THIS WAY!!! Motoman rules!!!" - idiot

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13883

RE: engine break in
08/12/14 6:48 PM

Vic +1

I kept an open mind. I beat the 08 motoman style and the bike burned oil, had great compression.
I broke the latest bike in by the owner's manual, right down to the rpm levels per miles.
I have over 7k on the bike so plugs and a compression test will be noted in the manual.
I have yet to add a drop of oil like I used to with the 'idiot' move.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Camp Vic

Same camp with the oil BS. I've broken in this bike with mixes of oils old and new. Did I mention not one drop added between break-in and 7k?

Signed,

NOLTVic



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Rktsled


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Location: Big D

Joined: 08/10/14

Posts: 365

RE: engine break in
08/12/14 8:19 PM

I sincerely apologize as I had no intention of stirring up a big debate, as I stated initially break-ins are like politics and each person has their own opinion. I am NOT a big fan of Motoman, or his ego, I used his article as an example because I just happened to have a link and his BASIC principles are sound but there are many other "professionals" who say similar things. I also said it's YOUR bike and break it in the way you want, you paid for the right to do that. I am NOT trying to influence anyone just stating my opinion based on my experience.

I have broken in many new engines on cars, trucks, bikes, boats, and airplanes. I tend to be on the conservative side but as an engineer I also believe very strongly in getting the rings seated properly along with getting brake pads bedded in and the tires scuffed. I also tend to follow factory recommendations for the most part because I know they designed and tested it, I used to do that to, even wrote some of the books. I do NOT advocate redlining your bike under any circumstances until its had a chance to get everything seated well. When I referred to the "ride it like you stole it" I was referring to varying the throttle to get the rings seated.



Rktsled
2013 ZX-14R with lots of mods, quick and comfortable.

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VicThing


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Joined: 07/17/14

Posts: 2402

RE: engine break in
08/12/14 8:45 PM

Same camp with the oil BS. I've broken in this bike with mixes of oils old and new. Did I mention not one drop added between break-in and 7k?

I wouldn't drive it home from the dealer and change the oil and put synthetic in there (or do any oil change for that matter). At the 600 mile service, I see no problems putting full synthetic, semi, or standard mc oil in it. You know why? Cause that's what the manual says!

We have Kawasaki who has a vested interest in me having a good product. This way I'll tell all my friends about my great Kawasaki and we'll all buy more Kawasakis. Or I can listen to some guy who apparently just kind of stumbled upon the greatest engine break-in process of all time. I mean what luck, apparently he just beat on one of his new motorcycles and happened to discover something none of the bike manufactures can figure out for themselves. Or maybe he was watching a race and some crew chief said something about breaking in a replacement engine. Huh..I wonder. One things for sure, I bet Motoman break-in process probably makes for a better youtube video.

LOL yeah, what we're really talking about again is back-yard-grease-monkey myths. BS passed down in motorcycle lore about how some guy's 3rd cousin's brother-in-law had a bike explode because he used synthetic the first oil change. Those convos usually end something like this "oh, I thought that was your 3rd cousin?" "No... I thought it was yours?" What no one knows, the brother-in-law used the motoman method for breaking in the engine, then somehow the synthetic oil got blamed for it all. Yep, it was all the fault of using synthetic oil, nothing to do with redlining it with 10 miles on the odometer.

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TaintedTattoo


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Joined: 03/16/09

Posts: 65

RE: engine break in
08/26/14 4:57 AM

Break it in anyway you desire, very gently if it makes you feel good, but remember that bike was already bouncing off the rev limiter at the Kawasaki factory before it even made it to the dealer.

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VicThing


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Joined: 07/17/14

Posts: 2402

RE: engine break in
08/26/14 5:27 PM

Break it in anyway you desire, very gently if it makes you feel good, but remember that bike was already bouncing off the rev limiter at the Kawasaki factory before it even made it to the dealer.

Well, if that broke in the engine fully then there's no reason to go out and thrash it, right?

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Kylinski



Joined: 09/03/14

Posts: 1

RE: engine break in
09/03/14 12:39 PM

Had my new 14 since May. The last words the dealer said to me about breaking it in was "just ride it"

So . . . . I followed the guide in the manual

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Wolfman



Joined: 03/29/13

Posts: 6714

RE: engine break in
09/29/14 2:23 AM

1) Don't Lug it around!
2) Ride it with spirited caution 1000miles
3) Ride it like you stole it!







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hagrid


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Location: pittsburgh

Joined: 02/16/12

Posts: 2213

RE: engine break in
10/07/14 6:56 PM

Lol! Can't believe I missed this gem!



Yoshis!! GO NINJEE!!!

Fat chicks at Wal-Mart: NOT RECOMMENDED

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: engine break in
10/07/14 8:16 PM

I would(and have)break it in like the manual says.The loading of rings in acceleration AND deceleration is the crux(from all I've read here and elsewhere).And the not staying at one rpm for long periods...until the 1K mark.One thing I always do...when I've gotten a new(14) is...I open er up kinda hard(but not hammering) soon after getting it...and then find a nice downhill where I can open er up,then let her coast down through the rpm range (for that gear) engine braking.Several times.No redline...just because...but loading that motor...SOON...seems to make a difference.After doing that several times...then I get into the routine of the manual parameters...with some variations along the way.Nothin crazy...certainly not 'riding it like I stole it'...hell...IDK what that is...I've never stolen someone elses bike;)

I hear idling for more than a few minutes when new is NOT a good thing...so I haven't.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/7/2014 @ 8:19 PM *

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groomlake


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Location: South Florida

Joined: 09/27/14

Posts: 50

RE: engine break in
10/08/14 8:55 AM

Grn14 is, in substance, correct. To summarize (having built race engines since 1971...), the trick is to cause the ring load (and the cam lobes) to "lap" succesfully to the mating surfaces. Many theories, many anecdotes, many "this works" practices, etc. But the fact of the matter is the two primary part materials that "rub" require a certain temperature and lubrication regime that allows the materials to "smear" without spalling, and by consequence, require only lubrication to otherwise stay in close contact under which they operate.
.
Assuming oils are equal, and the ring to wall pressures (and lobe to rocker assemblies...) can withstand the results of the heat and kinetic energy (translated into the increasing friction) can be controlled by rpm levels, then these components can be "mated" to withstand the much higher pressures and destructive friction potential when the motor is operated at peak levels.
.
The alloys used in the cylinder walls, rings, cam lobes, valve stem assemblies, and rocker arm assemblies undergo a surface change under heat and pressure. The metals, all of which have a crystalline structure when produced, are inherently "friable", and can abnormally wear, unless a gradual process of heat and pressure changes the structure with minimal destructive deformation. Analogy? Take a knife blade, and heat it, beat it, quench and repeat the process a few hundred times, and it will result in a molecular structure on the surface area (and down several layers...) that is incredibly "hard".
.
That's all fine and dandy... But the second part of the "break-in" is the "polish" that results. The finer the surface at the micron level, the easier it is for the oil to maintain the necessary film thickness to prevent further "polishing" or "lapping". We still need some porosity at the micron level to provide a residual lubricant level (that's what rings need to survive...), but also is why after 100,000 miles, we need to replace rings, valves, guides, camshafts, etc.
.
When we break in a motor, we are applying pressure (and frictional temperature) in opposite directions and variably over surfaces. The purpose of the break in is actually two-fold. First, we want to have the frictional surfaces "mate" evenly - not just under accelerational, or any particular sustained rpm level operations. Second, we want to give the metals time to "mate", and thus change their micron level alloy characteristics to a level that minimizes friction and the consequential wear under both acceleration, sustained level rpms, and deceleration.
.
The manufacturers are conservative (for liability and warranty reasons...). Varying the rpm (and the load) during the first 500 miles is "de-rigeur" for bikes and cars. Follow the manufacturer's instructions? Pretty much guarantees a good break in. Can we "accelerate" the process? Of course!! As long as we know what we are really doing.
.
The key is to vary the rpm, the accelerational and decelerational loads, and vary the sustained rpm levels accordingly. Heat and pressure will do it's work.
.
Caveat... I was "edumacated" as a mechanical engineer, with a focus on metals and alloy structures. Not that I worked in the field worth a crap after all that "schoolin", but it has applied to my hobby of building race engines, and making sure my hot rod and bike engines stayed together and were reliable.
.
But that is, of course, anecdotal, LOL!!!!


* Last updated by: groomlake on 10/8/2014 @ 8:59 AM *

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: engine break in
10/08/14 9:58 AM

Since I haven't broken in my bikes like Motorman or whatever...I really CAN'T say..."this way works best"....all I know is my engines have never burnt oil...nor valves and such been out of spec...or anything going wrong MILES later.The performances have always been consistent and reliable.No parts failing...but that also doesn't mean I did mine 'right'.These motors are ungodly reliable and well built.Very hard to say which break-in works with these.I just err on the side of the manual generally....I KNOW that isn't gonna steer me wrong.I guess if you could take two brand new 0 miles bikes...and break em in one like motorman(or that style)...and one 'by the book'...you MIGHT be able to see a difference...but that difference may very well NOT show up for several thousand miles down the road...with broken parts or oiling/compression issues.IDK.

Mine have always run excellent and stayed that way for as long as I had em...and I did a LOT of top speed runs on my 07....never had a problem in 51K miles.Nothing...zero power or mechanical issues.

The newest 14 models are well bumped up from those early motors...metallurgy wise and such.But I noticed one thing...the 'procedures' for breaking in even these new models hasn't changed.And these new ones straight out the crate allow for full synthetic oils...whereas the early ones....no no.So I think without Kawasaki coming straight out and saying it....their new model motors are very tough and can take almost any breakin...IDK.

It's not just the motor either...the trans has to get broken in as well.All the gears.All that.I think I could go so far as to say...the 'complete' break in doesn't actually stop at 1K.I say that because I noticed with ALL my ninjas...passing that 1K mark....the shifting and temps and such began to change(in a good way)and continued on for a few thousand more miles...or maybe it was just ME getting more comfortable with the bike?Could be.But I definitely could feel nice differences happening as time went on.The shifting mainly comes to mind.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/8/2014 @ 10:15 AM *

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groomlake


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Location: South Florida

Joined: 09/27/14

Posts: 50

RE: engine break in
10/09/14 6:11 AM

For Killbill - the OP; the bottom line is that all of the opinions or recommendations (although I do not agree with any "ride it like you stole it" suggestion), are on the same general track. From conservative - as in strict adherence to the owner's manual, to the more aggressive routines, all take into account the basic principles of the break-in process. I would say do as you see fit and the method with which you are comfortable. If you are not comfortable with any variations, or don't have a familiarity with the more "agressive" procedures, then stick with what Kawasaki says to do.

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Wolfman



Joined: 03/29/13

Posts: 6714

RE: engine break in
10/12/14 6:32 AM

Ride it, like you normally would. Don't lug it!
I rode mine like I stole it!
W







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ZX14MAN64


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Joined: 08/17/12

Posts: 1237

RE: engine break in
10/12/14 6:01 PM

By the manual guy here. But to each his own


I was rolling over Vic's Motoman post. Lol


* Last updated by: ZX14MAN64 on 10/12/2014 @ 6:02 PM *

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