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Thread: I Don't Get It....

Created on: 09/05/11 05:51 PM

Replies: 25

mad5674


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I Don't Get It....
09/05/11 5:51 PM

Does anyone know why there's no Kawasaki's in Moto GP ? Mostly Honda's, Yamaha's, Ducati's, and a few Suzuki's but I didn't see a single Kaw! I live in Indy and we just had the GP at the Brickyard last weekend. Guess I'm just not up on the racing curcuit.



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs, Schnitz flash.
'08 1600 Vulcan

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Kruz


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/05/11 8:45 PM

They dropped out when the worldwide recession hit back in '08, I think Dorna tried to sue them for breech of contract but KMC told them to stuff it. Remember, they were trying to develop the 'Big Bang' motor but it didn't pan out.



2021 Aprilia RSV4 2020 BMW S1000RR 2016 ZX-10R KRT 2016 959 Panigale Red 2015 CBR1000RR SP Repsol 2011 ZX-10R Ebony 2009 ZX-6R Lime Green 2006 ZX-14 Red 2004 VTX 1300C Candy Red "For we walk by faith and not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7

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mad5674


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/05/11 9:08 PM

Aha...Interesting. Thanks for the info Kruz. Figured there had to be some specific reason like that. Certainly not from a performance issue or pro riders not comfortable or happy with them.



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs, Schnitz flash.
'08 1600 Vulcan

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mad5674


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Location: Monrovia, IN

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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/05/11 10:32 PM

I can dig it Hub....I'll still take my 14 over all of em! No politics nessesary, just the baddest, bestest, beastiest machine I've ever been on!!



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs, Schnitz flash.
'08 1600 Vulcan

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privateer


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/06/11 10:08 AM

Kawasaki cut MotoGP because they couldn't afford it in the current economic climate.

Consider that just carbon fiber brakes alone cost over a quarter of a million dollars a year per bike (thank goodness they are going to banned), and you get an idea of what a single MotoGP bike and rider costs a factory.

Estimates run 8 to 15 million dollars a year, possibly more.

When you are coming in last or close to last every race, thats a lot of wasted money. Which KHI cannot afford.

Especially not when they needed to spend it on the new ZX10R, and refocusing on WSB.

Besides, KHI will get better press from WSB successes than they would in MotoGP because everyone knows what races in MotoGP races is a million dollars more expensive each than the factory's street-legal bikes. I.E., irrelevant.

And its not even certain the ZX10R will get much podium time next season. They didn't show well this season.



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Kruz


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/06/11 11:38 AM

This article in MCN sums up in a nutshell KHI's lack of racing success in years past, it's not the bikes.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/World-Superbikes/2011/September/sep0411-sykes-wins-after-team-sacked-by-kawasaki/

They didn't show well this season.

New 10R set the Superstock lap record at Caldwell earlier this year, then Michael Dunlop ran off and hid in the Isle of Man Superstock race on his 10R, then Dunlop ran his Superstock 10R in IOM Superbike Class and placed an astounding 4th, a few days ago Tom Sykes wins the latest World Super Bike round for Kawasaki at Nurburgring, Germany. Other than that nothing really notable.


* Last updated by: Kruz on 9/6/2011 @ 11:47 AM *



2021 Aprilia RSV4 2020 BMW S1000RR 2016 ZX-10R KRT 2016 959 Panigale Red 2015 CBR1000RR SP Repsol 2011 ZX-10R Ebony 2009 ZX-6R Lime Green 2006 ZX-14 Red 2004 VTX 1300C Candy Red "For we walk by faith and not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7

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privateer


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/06/11 12:37 PM

Well, its better than past years. Previously, KHI had some horrible riders, and a couple great riders who couldn't make the 10 keep up.

Now they have a 10 that can lead. The question is, can KHI fine tune the 2011 for 2012 and give it what it needs to make a good rider consistantly competitive.

I'm hoping for that, the combination of a really good rider (preferably two) and a 2012 refined to pure Thoroughbred status. Because it will help Kawasaki sell bikes and thats good for them and us alike.

MotoGP does not do that. Notice what Honda et. al. advertise? WSB fading to street version. Not MotoGP fading to... nothing. Heh.



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privateer


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/06/11 5:38 PM

Ah, but in years past, in WSB, Kawasaki had a couple good riders who went on to do pretty good with another brand.

During those years, the ZX10R couldn't hang with the other WSB bikes. And nobody is a privateer in WSB, it just doesn't cost as much as MotoGP and the sponsors are sub-factory, though heavily sponsored. Good rules in WSB limit the effect factory r&d can have on the results.



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mad5674


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/06/11 6:10 PM

Pretty notable if you ask me. I'm with you Kruz. Thanks guys. Valid points on an interesting topic.



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs, Schnitz flash.
'08 1600 Vulcan

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Kruz


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/07/11 9:38 PM

New ZX10R is a weapon in the right hands. I can tell you for the first time the bike is balanced and that's the key to fast laps. Everything works together as a unit. Previous Gens had great motors and brakes but spooky handling, especially when you started bumping up the power. I blame that equally on no speed sensitive steering damper and lack of frame ridgidity. The Gen 3 was good up to about 175 rear wheel HP, more than that and the chassis couldn't cope.


* Last updated by: Kruz on 9/7/2011 @ 9:40 PM *



2021 Aprilia RSV4 2020 BMW S1000RR 2016 ZX-10R KRT 2016 959 Panigale Red 2015 CBR1000RR SP Repsol 2011 ZX-10R Ebony 2009 ZX-6R Lime Green 2006 ZX-14 Red 2004 VTX 1300C Candy Red "For we walk by faith and not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7

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privateer


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/08/11 4:22 AM

Hey, Kruz, think about that a second more. I agree the frame back a few years lacked sufficient rigidity to handle the level of power and steering input required.

This tells you something about roadracing, how it is nothing like riding where license plates are required. None of us could ever have put an older ZX10R into a situation where the frame rigidity was an issue unless it was right before we killed ourselves.

During the time that KHI had pretty good riders who couldn't place with the then-current ZX10R in WSB, I had a then-new ZX10R on the street, and it seemed extremely rigid and nimble to me.

Trying to work around to the point that it was a bike technology problem for a number of years, even though the street versions were stellar because we couldn't put the loads on the frame that you get in roadracing.

Now with the 2011 ZX10R (and no doubt more so the 2012, KHI may not spend money on the ZX14 but they darn sure are spending it on the ZX10R) all they need are really good riders.



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Kruz


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/08/11 8:02 AM

Right, I just don't believe KHI has the fierce spirit and drive to compete and win like Honda does. If they did, they would get their act together, hire some world class riding talent and get 'er done. As it is they are content to build great sportbikes at the most reasonable prices. Racing is in Honda's DNA and they are a proud company and hate to lose, ditto Yamaha, doesn't necessarily translate into a stellar road ride for us though. Witness Yamah, they seem to mop up in MotoGP and WSBK but their R1 is flacid at best. I like the sound but it's overweight and a bit down on power, probably a great road experience though. Hey, all of these bikes are really winners when you come right down to it, I'd take one of each if I had the income.



2021 Aprilia RSV4 2020 BMW S1000RR 2016 ZX-10R KRT 2016 959 Panigale Red 2015 CBR1000RR SP Repsol 2011 ZX-10R Ebony 2009 ZX-6R Lime Green 2006 ZX-14 Red 2004 VTX 1300C Candy Red "For we walk by faith and not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7

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privateer


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/08/11 12:16 PM

Agree 100%



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mad5674


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/08/11 6:25 PM

I wouldn't mind riding a V-Max to see what it's all about. Probably kinda heavy and cluncky compared to our 14's. I'd still like to experience it for myself though.



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs, Schnitz flash.
'08 1600 Vulcan

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Kruz


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/08/11 8:45 PM

It'd be different, that's for sure but I'm not curious enough to drop 17 grand on one to find out.



2021 Aprilia RSV4 2020 BMW S1000RR 2016 ZX-10R KRT 2016 959 Panigale Red 2015 CBR1000RR SP Repsol 2011 ZX-10R Ebony 2009 ZX-6R Lime Green 2006 ZX-14 Red 2004 VTX 1300C Candy Red "For we walk by faith and not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7

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privateer


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/09/11 5:28 AM

Hub got one part of KHI's psyche dead on.... "We are king of street bikes".

That began when the H1 was released. We had leaking, slow, heavy Harleys and a smattering of Guzzi and Ducati bikes amongst the wealthy. So basically there was this big hole on the street scene, and nobody was filling it.

What was missing was a bike that was relatively cheap, quite fast, very light, and low maintenance.

Behold the mighty H1 Mach III triple 2-stroke street terror. What I remember was putting the 2-stroke oil in the right side oil tank (it was an auto-injector) and how it bogged like crazy down low on the rpm range, but once you got it above 5k it was a lot of fun to ride. Above 9k it was frightening. Above 10k it was, for its weight, pulling your arms out of the sockets as good as the ZX14 today.

The frame was part of the suspension, it flexed like crazy. We started tearing them down and putting gussets in, and that included new, larger, bearings and flanges for the swing arms, and stronger swing arms too. Mine started to actually be predictable at speed in the twisties. But it still slid around like all get out.

This created KHI's psyche and self-image as a motorcycle manufacturer. Everyone was gagga over the H1. It was on all the magazine covers. "Behold the mighty H1" they said. I still have a copy, sealed in plastic, with the first ever review of the H1 in America, and the H1 on the cover.

KHI puffed up its collective chest and pounded on it like King Kong.

Fast forward to 2011. KHI is in process of being disabused of the King Kong way of thinking, but they don't know who they are right now.

Drag racers prefer Suzuki. Road racers prefer Honda and Yamaha and Ducati. Harley is actually taking back share in the cruiser and touring markets, as their 2010, 2011, and 2012 entries in those markets have 6 speed cruise transmissions (smoother than KHI bikes by far), floating disk brakes, flawless engines with tractor-like torque, and all the things cruisers and tourers like.

The Kawasaki Vulcan is not selling like hotcakes.

Right now, KHI has the C14, which is only a niche, but it does it well and the owners are fiercely loyal. They have the ZX14, which is old tech by now, but still undisputedly the King Kong bike on the street (speaking about stock bikes). And KHI has the mighty 2011 ZX10R, with the 2012 highly likely to be a refinement of the 2011, a fixing of minor problems and MORE power -- including the ability to get the power to the asphalt smoothly. Probably working on making it easier to ride, though compared to the 2005 ZX10R, the new one is quite easy to ride fast.

And throw the economy in Japan and USA on top of all of this technology evolution, and KHI just doesn't have the corporate WILL to freeze the C14 and Vulcan programs, and from some stuff outside motorcycle division, so they can spend the 100s of millions of dollars necessary to develop a competitive MotoGP bike. And then they still have to convince a good rider its worth leaving a team already doing pretty good.

I won't say KHI won't re-enter MotoGP one day, expecially as MotoGP begins doing things like banning caron fiber brakes and restricting the number of motors and horsepower of motors you can have, and maybe even a claiming rule (unless they already did it) which will keep factories from producing one-off starwars technolology engines just to take pole position.

Anyway we will know what KHI is about next WSB season. 2011 was their initial season with the new tech 10, and 2012 should be a year to podium a few times, and prove its a great roadrace bike.

For me, I'm sorry they couldn't make the big bang engine at low enough costs to be able to put it in a homologated retail bike. That I would have had to buy even if I'm no longer able to take advantage of the bike's capabilities. Just to feel the engine at speed.



Living the Gypsy Life

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Edgecrusher


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/09/11 8:19 AM

If you want to follow relevant Kawasaki racing look into drag racing. That's where they really shine IMO.



RIP 08 Special ED ZX-14
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mad5674


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/09/11 6:49 PM

I'll never forget the '79 CBX 6cyl. I rode back in the early 80's ! It was heavy to say the least but man that sucker was powerful! I can't really remember how it compares to our 14's. Maybe similar but not nearly as quick because of the weight and technology differential.



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs, Schnitz flash.
'08 1600 Vulcan

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ethin14



Location: Qld Australia

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Posts: 589

RE: I Don't Get It....
09/10/11 3:02 AM

Mad what about one of these 6 Cyl cafe racers. got to love the sound of that engine.

Watch the videos, just great
http://www.returnofthecaferacers.com/2011/02/sweet-sounding-honda-six.html


* Last updated by: ethin14 on 9/10/2011 @ 3:03 AM *

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mad5674


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/10/11 6:47 PM

Awsesome sound, especially for only 250cc! I can't believe the size of those rods n pistons!



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs, Schnitz flash.
'08 1600 Vulcan

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ethin14



Location: Qld Australia

Joined: 03/09/09

Posts: 589

RE: I Don't Get It....
09/11/11 1:41 AM

I like the way many old bikes have classic lines and shape, they never grow old.

When you look at all the parts in that little 250 laid out there for the other photo, you realise what you are up against with Honda.

As much as I dislike Honda for the money they use to win over everyone else, they sure have been the dominant force driving the wheels of success and change in bikes and bike racing.

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ethin14



Location: Qld Australia

Joined: 03/09/09

Posts: 589

RE: I Don't Get It....
09/11/11 3:53 PM

Neat and sweet CB, bikes and cars have become the same, all the individual curves and lines have disappeared, they have blended in to the same bucket of plastic goo. now they all come out looking the same.

They didn't always get it right back then either. even MV

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Grn14


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/11/11 5:07 PM

Hi ETHIN!Hope everything's going well...getting some good rides in and your family's fine.Cheers!


I was having my front tire changed at my guy's shop last week...speaking of Hondas...there was this whatever year it was Honda....TURBO...factory.Street.Faired.Two cylinder shaped like the moto-guzzi engine.Turbo....I couldn't believe it!Had NO idea there even was a production turbo street bike ever made.There she was.I don't understand why now at this point in time,Kawasaki or Suzuki hasn't come out with a factory turboed zx or something?Honda did it 'way back when'.

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privateer


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RE: I Don't Get It....
09/11/11 7:20 PM

Edgecrusher wrote:

If you want to follow relevant Kawasaki racing look into drag racing. That's where they really shine IMO.

Who holds most of the 1/4 mile records for bikes?



Living the Gypsy Life

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ethin14



Location: Qld Australia

Joined: 03/09/09

Posts: 589

RE: I Don't Get It....
09/12/11 1:22 AM

How it all going up there Blue, must nearly be looking over your shoulder for that white stuff again, days are getting longer here and starting to warm up . everything this end is good just need a change of Government to lift the country out of the blues or something to eat the stupid people that voted for them

Hub Old No 2 has lots of character a fuel tank made by hand complete with handle bars. imagine asking someone to make you that tank today, notice a little spline shaft on the clutch cover , is that a kick start or are they to chicken shit to change gears on that thing ,being the test pilot you would need to be made of rubber.


More than just drag racers, had a timeless look about them I blame the plastic people who have no soul when they create today's bikes, .


* Last updated by: ethin14 on 9/12/2011 @ 2:33 AM *

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