My bike shifts great going up throw the gears, but on down shifting, I feel allot of resistance in the shifter. Are others feeling the same issue?
I have issues with metal slivers getting caught in the shifting mechanism inside the engine causing it to hang in gear. The dealer has the engine almost completely apart on the bench but could not find the reason why or where all the metal slivers are coming from.
I told him that when downing shifting that the shifter feels much tighter than up shifting.
Curious to see what others are feeling when shifting the 14.
P.S. Shifting the new generation Busa is like butter both ways.

TIA

Ya-the Busa shifts SWEEET.WTF WITH OUR KAWI's?Anyway-She'll downshift great IF..............the R's are in the right range-AND..........you "think"throttle off(barely)with your right hand there.Just a SLIGHT interruption,then push down firmly-she'll pop right in(without clutch your saying,yes?)I don't use the clutch for upshifts or downshifts UNLESS-I'm shifting "slower".Downshifting WILL feel tighter than upshifting-but the key is in the "interruption" of power to the trans.You know that an electric shifter cuts the power for a split second "removing" the load on the tranny so to speak.You're doing the same thing when you "think" "close throttle".You don't actually close it.Just "break" the load on the trans momentarily.You can shift up or down without clutch VERY smoothly and quickly if you get your timing right.It won't work well if you're downshifting to first however.I use the clutch for that one!I've NO idea where your chips are coming from.Everything look okay in there and sounding okay?How many miles?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/29/2009 @ 12:00 AM *

My busa has a shorter shift throw between shifts...but the 14 has a much more positive shift that locks right in...very securely. I can't MAKE my 14 miss a shift, where on the busa if I'm not firm and sharp with my shifting, missed shifts are possible. I prefer the solid locked in shifting of the 14 myself. I,ve made weak shifts and had the 14 "pull" the gear the rest of the way into gear, where the busa woulda kicked it out

I'm using the clutch for down shifts, but not all the time for up shifts. It just seems that there is way too much resistance in the feel for down shifts.

but not all the time for up shifts.

<<< Now uses clutch for upshifts is a splattered bike on the bench.

Hub......What are you trying to say, that not using the clutch is the reason the engine in on the bench?

I've logged about 80k in miles since 2001 and have not changed my habits on shifting. and never had a issue with trans or clutches, all being Kawasaki bikes (4).

I've also riding another dozen bikes in the recent past, and nothing ever felt like this shifting issue on my 14.

I'm just trying to get a idea whether there is a problem with the trans so that I can relay that to the service manager that has my engine apart. If others here have no issues with their bikes shifting, than I can relay this info to the service manager to look harder into this problem.
I've never ridden another 14, so I don't have anything to compare this issue to, other than the dozen bikes I've ridden in the past that shift much better than mine.

As a side note, the engine is apart at the dealer and they are not able to find the problem with the small glittery metal coming out of the engine with each oil change. They have a regional service tech on call in to take a look at the engine, but so far nothing has been found yet.

* Last updated by: extrapilot on 11/29/2009 @ 9:17 AM *

extrapilot,excellent description of what I believe my bike feels like shifting. My bike does the exact same thing (sans metal shavings).
BadinBlack, another great description but, my 14 shifts like your Busa (without the short throw). If you do not positively engage each gear, you'll hang one.
I also feel like, (for my size 9), that the shifter is too short and needs to be about a 1/2" longer to engage my foot for a more positive feel. Unfortunatly, this will result in a even longer shift throw.
Has anyone tried the factory pro shift star?, longer shift lever? I am coming off liter bikes and by comparison, my 14 shifts poorly. FWIW, I use Mobile One Racing oil and the change to full synthetic netted a great deal of improvement in shifter feel.

Cutback.... Oil changes always seem to improve shifting in most bikes but not to long afterwards the shifting just sucks on my 14.
Thanks for the reply.

Like I mentioned, my track bike is a liter bike and running Repsol or Mobile One has netted shifter feel improvements but, I agree with you, by comparison, my 14 does not shift well.

Your "shavings" issue sounds like she's still breaking in-course I can't see what you're talking about-but mine had "some" metal flecks during initial break-in.But no longer(29,000 miles).And I've been shifting the way I do without one instance of transmission problems.That's alot of shifts(without the clutch-98% at least).Oil changes will temporarily smooth the shifting-but mine shifts good(my zx12 and zzr1200 shifted the same way).So I just don't think about it-she does okay for me.I have a FactoryPro EVO shift star on mine- installed it early in my bike's history-so...........I can't tell anyone if it's "better" or otherwise-If I was gonna decide again....I would probably leave the stock star in there.But it definitely allows me to pop downshifts at higher rpms and speeds without drama(and without clutch).She'll downshift well at high speed-and I don't know if the stock star will allow that? I think it "somewhat" helped the shift quality.I rarely will miss a shift-rarely.It's ALWAYS from first to second if I do.But I've got to be shifting "slow"(and moving slow)(using the clutch to shift)for it to ever do that.Clutchless shifting-never misses.(naturally-I don't shift from neutral to first without the clutch).Guess some guys here do? She'll never shift like a Busa-unfortunately-but it's cool-I'm happy.I found something that DOES help the shifting however-very simple really.Pulling the clutch in ONLY about halfway-then simultaneously snicking the shift and popping the clutch.VERY smooth and quick.Just takes some getting used to pulling only halfway-that's the "hard"part-remembering and doing that consistently!!!It's just so much easier and quicker to shift without the clutch.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/30/2009 @ 12:26 AM *

Your "shavings" issue sounds like she's still breaking in-course.

10k on the bike now with about 8 oil changes, think I should not be seeing anything in there. Now the pieces that are getting caught into the shifting arm inside the engine are large enough to hang it so bad that I can't change gears.
The dealer fixed it once only for that to last 85 miles and it hung up again.

Wow...Good read. My bike shifts great up and down with or with out clutch....I know, I know...but some times I get lazy. This is the first thread on this subject I have ever seen. My oil has always been 10/40 Kawi/syn...Maybe not the very best, but I beat my bike and I have had zero issues.

Use Repsol racing 10W40 in the 14 and the gearbox was smoother in every way for 500 miles. After that, it felt like normal conventional oil and i changed back to conventional after 3000 miles.

I use the clutch on every shift, up or down. The only time I have ever missed a shift was when I somehow forgot to pull the clutch one time and I don't think I lifted hard enough on the shift lever, either. No big deal. Just found myself in a false neutral. I pulled the clutch and it shifted to the next lower gear, no problem. Just a little embarrassing.

I own a busa and a 14 and I was very impressed at first with the shifting of the G2 busa like you mention. The busa is a little bit better in this regard but it seems to me, the 14 started shifting smoother in the last couple hundred miles(odo now at ~14,000), even after 3000 miles on the same oil. Maybe it just took some waring in? Downshifts, I always do a throttle blip. I have it down, it goes right in with a touch of my toe. I use the same technique with the busa but it seems to go in pretty smooth no matter what.

* Last updated by: Rook on 11/29/2009 @ 7:47 PM *

Well extra-had no idea it actually "wouldn't shift" from those metal pieces.That's BAD.You shouldn't get any flecks or shavings by now.Geeez...hope you can get it fixed okay-I've no idea WHAT that could be...but if it's doing that like you say-something's gonna give -I'd say sooner before later!I wouldn't want to ride mine until I got it REALLY fixed.Sounds like your trans is coming apart?Which side of the case are the chips on?Clutch side,or shifter arm side?(left side of bike when you're sitting on her)Only thing I could think of on the clutch side would be the gears inside the crankcase there.Or your clutch basket or something getting ready to let go?I don't know which side your mechanic inspected and "fixed"(apparently not)-but MAYBE he left a spacer or something out and it's causing something in there to grind where it's not supposed to-creating those shards?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/30/2009 @ 12:24 AM *

the engine is apart at the dealer and they are not able to find the problem with the small glittery metal coming out of the engine with each oil change.

I'd place a magnet on the glitter. If this metal does not cling to the magnet, then did they pull the rod caps apart?

I beat hell out of this bike each time I am out on it. Lugging it, hammering well past 100 plus, things like that. Do I have contamination in the oil filter pleats? Nada.

Do I shift without clutch - I'd say yes to that when I am climbing up to the ton; for passing purposes, etc. Do I have a no clutch habit that fills the filter pleats? No.

Does the bike shift well? WELL, like I said, the factory should ride my bike with the mod I have. You would dis the Busa as some great shift hound. What a dramatic difference and there is no way you could duplicate this mod. It's hard to find this part to replicate it so others can experience the same effect.

Like I said before; The factory missed the shift apply "electrically." I would let you ride this bike two ways or the two modes; "But then I'd have to kill you."

Bottom line, you need to call or head down to your dealer, pilot, grab a magnet, drag the sparkles and see if they cling. If not = Bearing insert is one; if they did not pull the rod caps to inspect. If the metal is clinging to the magnet, then these bits of steel can be coming off the ends or tips of the 'dog ears' or the 'doors' of the other gear that lock together once in gear.

You bang that first gear, that can bang off some chips. But for this contamination to happen at each oil change, there has to be something letting loose. Take your camera and shoot the gears, forks, crank bearings. Maybe more pairs of eyes can see [here] what the mechanic is missing since they need a more experienced pair of eyes to come inspect, meaning, the 'District Rep.'

* Last updated by: Hub on 11/30/2009 @ 10:32 AM *

Hub....The material is aluminum for sure, very bright glitter just like the glitter that woman would you for make-up, very tiny though. You can see it in the oil filter and at the bottom of the drain bucket on oil changes. Not large enough to be rod bearing material (but I wouldn't rule it out) and only always bright silver. It seems as though there is something rubbing the case some where, maybe a bearing in the trans to housing bore. The forks look OK. The service guy still needs to tear down the gears and examine them also. So far, he hasn't found anything... extra eyes is what is needed for sure, this just can't be nothing going on inside the engine.

To answer blue's question, the slivers that get caught are on the right side under the clutch basket. It gets caught in the slider/arm of the shifter that makes contact with the shift drum cam.
Here a picture, outlined in yellow is where the metal gets caught under the large head rivet, that holds the plate that makes contact to the star lugs.

* Last updated by: extrapilot on 11/30/2009 @ 2:17 PM *

Looks like ya installed a shift star-am I correct on that?Well-maybe not.I just thought the stock springs had a pink paint on em-but yer star doesn't look stock-mine was grey metal colored.My FactoryPro shift star is the same color as yours.But your teeth look less pointed.Something serious is going on there if the chips are big enough to get caught under that shift arm there.If there's no damage to the basket an gears there-it can only be slipping through the seal from the trans side,yes?If that's what's going on-I'd be cautious about riding it.I don't know the mechanics of the trans and stuff-but the shavings are gettin in there somewhere.You did pull the shift shaft out and inspect it didn't you?(don't do this with the bike on her kickstand!)Rear stand is the best way-you won't lose any oil(from the left side of the case) when ya pull er out .Let me ask ya a question-Look straight down from the circled rivet you've got in your pic.You see that "half circle"right there?(the dark "shadow"area)Is that supposed to be like that?Or is that a piece of the case broken off right there.It doesn't look "normal" just looking at it here.?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/30/2009 @ 3:00 PM *

Blue....I guess I should of indicated that the picture was taken off the Factorypro site, not my engine....Sorry for that.
Yes.....that is a new shift star installed.
You mentioned the trans end that's right above the arm...I was also curious about that area to....thinking that is where a bearing housing (aluminum housing) could be getting hammered. That seal area that you refer to is a thrust washer, holding the trans shaft inside the case. When I was last at the dealer looking at the engine, the shaft was not removed yet. He told me that he is going to open it up more in that area to investigate more. Hope that happens, I really think that the trans in causing all my problems.

And as for YOU HUB-gonna share with your fellow owners a trick to get our shifting characteristics improved? "no way you could duplicate this mod".........okay,there's your out.NOW...for the REAL DEAL.If it can't be duplicated and reapplied again and again-well pard,you know what they say,yes?(Shall I help you?) ..."it's hard to find this part so others could experience it".....I think all us grown ups could "find" this part if someone HERE would care enough to SHARE their info with one or two of us "dummies".Are ya gettin this?If ya got this shifting deal nailed-better than a BUSA-get yer azz down to the patent office and START MAKIN BIG BUCKS!I'd be the FIRST one to buy it off ya Bro!!!!Otherwise=PLEASE-have mercy and let me get my boots on before ya throw yer next "big secret" out there will ya?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 12/1/2009 @ 1:26 AM *

If ya got this shifting deal nailed-better than a BUSA-get yer azz down to the patent office and START MAKIN BIG BUCKS!

I already spoke to an EE in a round about way. He wants 60 grand ($60,000.00) we sit down and build the prototype.

Check dishit out >>> No dash code when you pop the deal on.

Why do you think I built the racing harness? >>> To duplicate the mod.

You know how you remove the flies and this has a dramatic effect? Yeah, well, I pee in my pants I turn this mod on and my foot, "meets and greets" what should have been from the factory in the first place. The Japanese are not that smart. Rub their nose in it...

Update:
The regional tech guy from Kawasaki came and looked at my dismantled engine and found that the dampening springs that are on the back of the clutch basket are loose and slapping around creating the small metal particles.
I assume that the factory had assemble the spring wrong some how, but I wasn't given a full explanation to the defect.
The rep took all of the bad parts with him so he could send them to CA head office. Some of the small slivers were found in the pick screen also, and he took them as well.
I guess lucky for them and me that I changed the oil so frequently that no other damage was seen inside the engine.
So after about 50 days in the shop, I should get my bike back soon.

I'd have to look at the basket. Could be the rivets are elongating causing the excessive movement. It has to move metal out of the way to elongate to loosen the springs in the housing. This might be the material flinging out of the basket. I can only guess.

Slamming down to the lower gears without the clutch lever and all they could point to was the basket? That tells me how stout the forks and gears are holding up to that type of down shifting. It means you were not abusive to the box or parts would have shown burn or bent forks on certain areas.

With the new basket, you ought to know if that was the charm. Last time I rode, I messed with the way the bike shifts. Funny how this hack, up-shifts like the mod, but downshifting was putrid. You have to think to shift down. Hung up in a way but didn't in a way. Hard to explain. Let us know if that solved the problem, extra.

We will see how the repair works out, but it only made sense because the rear of the basket is in-line with the shifter lever that I pointed out in the previous picture.
I wasn't given a real answer to the loose springs, although I can imagine that they (factory) assembled the springs in the wrong slots. The service manager told me that there are three pairs of springs, that are different sizes per each pair so that there is a progression of dampening effect. Or the rivets were not tight enough and elongating like you say Hub. Make sense?

I never down shifted the 14 without using the clutch so I really think that this was a problem from new, and also since I was seeing the glittery metal in the oil from new.

Hope to get some miles on it and see if the oil turns up clean like it should.
If not, New Jersey has a very good Lemon Law, and since they had the one chance (all that is needed) to fix a safety issue, I think a Lawyer would take the case hands downs.

* Last updated by: extrapilot on 12/17/2009 @ 2:21 PM *

Or the rivets were not tight enough and elongating like you say Hub. Make sense?

Hey Extra-Really glad ya got that sorted out!You'll get yer new parts,and she'll run like top!Funny thing about these 14's that I've noticed.From 06-the "trial run" so to speak-they were paying attention to lots of stuff with their new machine.Several issues arose that were kinda quirky.The frame issue.Brake rotors.Leaking valve cover gaskets.Bikes not starting.Then in 07-the next batch was hitting the market.I think they made a few adjustments-not near as many quirky issues in that year.Now to the 08's,09's.Don't really hear much now about anything "serious" happening.I have to say-I'm very fortunate to have an 07.I pretty much "totaled" my baby right after the break-in period.Okay,not exactly "totaled",but beat up pretty bad.I stripped all the broken stuff off-which was pretty much everything EXCEPT(luckily)the engine and forks and brakes and frame.Everything else was toast.I reassembled my baby with the 07 Candy Plas Blue(she was Diablo Black originally).Replaced everything.Tank,fairings,the whole nine yards.Only original stuff left was the harnesses,forks,brakes and engine,and frame(thank GOD that only had one little "dent" where the stock muffler got slammed against the right swingarm.Can't even see it if ya didn't know it was there(didn't even scratch the paint!!!)Since I restored my baby-done in about May of 07,I've had ZERO problems with my bike.Nothing mechanical,or otherwise, has happened since then.She's got 29,000 miles on er.The ONLY problem I had was my Muzzy ignition Rotor worked loose,and changed the timing on me-which caused several strange things to happen-but it wasn't because of a faulty bike.I guess what I'm saying is-I can rely on my bike when I'm riding.And I do like to run er aggressively.The things I hear about "going bad" are really kinda unique to each bike it seems to me.That clutch deal you have goin on-weird-just strange.I've never heard anyone mention anything like that.And other stuff-like not turning over.Or not starting.I've never had those problems.I had the valve cover leak-but fixed that with the washer deal.Hasn't leaked since.Pulled my clutch out,installed a shift star-NEVER had any problems.And I'm no mechanic.Pulled my flies-no problems with performance.I'm just thinkin with all the 14's sold around the world-there really isn't that much that goes wrong IMO.Seriously,I think these 14's are the best deal out there.I've never been stuck on the side of the road.Even when it was actin strange from the timing,it still got me home.Without breaking!She's a fast azz bike that runs like a freighttrain.I'm very happy I didn't buy something else.Anyway-you'll be rippin out there soon-just have fun!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 12/17/2009 @ 2:42 PM *