Going to mess about with the decel pop and Kruz's idea today .... yeah :)

Day 1: set the upper RPM 5-8K, 0 TP to TP 10 to 15% fuel (from 0). Bazzaz really only goes to 50 fuel tops, so 15% I believe is really 7% fuel added. If I understand that right. Still some popping.

For tomorrow will increase fuel to 25% and for TP range 0-10 %, which covers the 4K-10K RPM range. I reserve the 3-4K RPM range, 0-20% TP, for my cruise fuel mix.

I am also wondering how the map really works in 1-5th gears, as the Bazzaz 'averages' the ratio, no matter the gear (4th and above really - I don't think it is 'fast enough' to map i72.9.97.35-3, as I was told by Bazzaz, and I would really wish the gadget would/could map for each gear. There is an adjustment you can use to add or subtract for each gear, but how to do that intelligently?

* Last updated by: JDC on 3/13/2010 @ 11:32 PM *

JD, You cannot get into the gear maps. If you had a race kit sold by the OEM, then yes, you could see and adjust the gear software for racing purposes, i.e., sprocket swaps between tracks. The aftermarket stuff are just fuel cutters that dildo the duty cycle.

You can find the kit-ECU software on line, but without the kit-ECU's black box, your hands are cuffed only working the, "injection rate" is their software term. You have 6 compensation maps to manipulate. Auto-shift fuel cut and same auto-shift with ignition cut time. You have the beauty of moving the subthrottle with that comp map are now up to how many moves BazzanDynojetsay are stuck with just an, 'injection rate" for argument sake is the optional ignition map play.

"Pit Road Rev Limit Point" was another option. I'm trying to start this unit up on the 14 with the kit-ECU I have. Imagine if you had this as your cut box chasing gears and sub action speeds. See how handcuffed you are with the aftermarket rigs?

Then to my surprise, I find out there are more companies in the middle of the real builders and software makers of these fuel cutter boxes. So, you call [the middleman's] tech line and the question is either never answered as in solved your question or solved the problem. I am just saying that as a scenario you buy some off the wall fuel cutter.

Day 2: Richend up the lowest TP from 4K-11K to 30% fuel, still strong popping. Will add fuel to the next upper TP position next.

Hub,

Thanks. Yes, seems no way with this Bazzaz gadget to do individual maps. I was messing about with the new Bazzaz 2010 software, and have not figured out how to make any changes (compared to the previous version of their software) to log the AFR at a specific 'setting'. Done riding today with daughter, so will attack that issue after calling Bazzaz tomorrow. Their manual does not even talk about the new "multiple target AFR's at once" in the new 20190 manual, and they have removed the up/down arrows to make any changes to the AFR in that window now!

I have to say Bazzaz does some of their stuff half-thought out/half-assed. Why put out new software, with new possibilities ("multiple target AFR's at once"), and a new manual, and not even mention how to make the new functions work?

Seems always the short cut for the business, compared to providing useful info for the customer.. now on the other hand, if you are close by, they are willing to help. Thank goodness they are 3 minutes away. And continue to see me.. hah!

I know they (he really) has gotten tired of me bashing their Bazzaz unit (only for very specific reasons and laiza-faire care), but he just does not seem to care about his 14 customers, and with this dismal new manual, about any other customer either.

I'd still like a meaningful basic manual.

* Last updated by: JDC on 3/14/2010 @ 5:46 PM *

JDC it's too bad you can't hook up a laptop and log data on the PCIII utility while you're riding (I guess you could but it might be a little dangerous). You could see what combination of TP and rpm the popping is occurring at. I noticed I do not normally close the throttle completely (0 TP) when upshifting, just back off enough to make the shift.
Adding + fuel at larger throttle openings may be the trick. There is some combination that will duplicate what the TRE006a is doing and that's gonna do the trick. What you don't want to do is add fuel to the wrong places and mess up your mileage.

If you are saying the 006 triggers the N on the dash, then yes, you will hear no pop from under your helmet, but [still pops even with] the N+ that I know of. With N, you get pop. You can see and hear the Pic-In-Pic run with the N set in play, meaning, my test video. I'm not trying to quiet the pop when I think about gaining power. I doubt you can eliminate it [the pop] short of it gurgling with too much fuel being introduced.

Later today: I have set the TP's 0-20%, from RPM 4K to 10K to 30% fuel. Pops are the same. Even at 4-4.5K, if I let off quickly I sometimes get the loud pop when it drops into the 3K range. Seems as long as I have a little throttle on, no pop. The fuel set to 30% all along the range, except the 3-4K range, where it is at 14.2 AFR for cruise, for the 0-20% range. Maybe that's the range to fuel up?

earlier this am: Spoke with Ron from Bazzaz today about the AFR page. The new AFR additions have been incorporated into their Self Mapping tab, under the Mapping box, top right button, which selects between AFR/Fuel Add %/Target AFR.

Selecting Target AFR, then you simply select highlight the map cells you wish to map at a certain AFR, and enter the target AFR, then move on to select another target cell area, and so on. Very nice. Will try that out today, also incorporating Kruz's no pop ideas.

I say ? to the 'percent' because the Bazzaz fuel cells now, on my PC, allow me to enter values up to 63, rather than 50 max (plus 13 for 'trim') = possible max of 63 before. If this remains true when the map loads, then that 30 number is not really an accurate "percentage". In speaking with Bazzaz, 63 is the upper-most you can have an injector run, so it is equivalent to the injector being at about 100 percent duty cycle.

So, 63/100 = .63, then 1 percent on the Bazzaz is equal to .63 conversion factor. .63 * X (fuel amount in cell) = true percentage/the actual percentage of what fuel amount is in the cell... (?)

substituting for X: (fuel amount in cell) 30 * .63 = 18.9 percent actual fuel?

* Last updated by: JDC on 3/15/2010 @ 8:16 PM *

Dang JDC... I was sure that was going to work for you. Is that bad boy popping as soon as you roll off the throttle to upshift or does it take a few seconds as you're spooling down? You've added some serious fuel in some areas of the map there and nothings changed? Have you eliminated all possibility of an exhaust leak?

It sounds like you haven't found the right combination of fuel, % throttle and rpm yet. Different approach, The TRE 006a works, I know that. It puts you in the neutral map and shuts off fuel cut off on decel. If we can duplicate that effect in the mapping it should do the job. Can it be done.... I don't know! If I lived closer, I'd pull the TRE off and let you try it and see if it fixed the popping then figure out a way to get the same effect without the side effect.

My VTX1300 has slipons and it will very occasionally let out a single pop if you've been cruising at a constant speed for a long time and then roll off.... it takes a few seconds though and it's not enough of a bother to fix it. The CBR has a full system and gives a loud crackle the instant you lift throttle to upshift at high rpms but it doesn't do it all the time and now that weather is warming up, it seems to have stopped entirely. Hmmmm..,, I think the FuelMoto map might have been just a touch lean for winter weather.

The 14 was bad about popping after the Yoshi slipons went on there. The TRE 006a knocked all that out, been over three years since I heard a pop out of it.

I'd pull the TRE off and let you try it and see if it fixed the popping then figure out a way to get the same effect without the side effect.

RidgeRacer, Ridgeracer, make me a map,
Make me a lean one or make it real fat.

That is more watt you need is to get inside the software to flip the hard on, turn the soft off. And I came across something interesting the other day. I think it was Suz, had a wire rig where you just stick a paper clip into two ECU wires or blank prong not being used, I have no clue, but something about the side effects are no longer on the dash. You being in the hot setup. Why not attempt the same combination if say if one ECU might have that ability, why not another ECU, nudge-nudge, hint-hint > One can only hope.

I think it was Suz, had a wire rig where you just stick a paper clip into two ECU wires or blank prong not being used

I tried that this morning Hub and my entire wiring harness melted down...what size paper clip they use?

Those are cheap like $600. I used my pea shootear searching, so I don't know what size they used? Since that is about the biggest thing I'll stick into an empty leg, go chase a $1000 pin touch. My harness is fine. It's my ECU that now has a hump on the bottom of the black box. I think we need to change that to, "Hump Has It!"

Another day and no differences in the pops. Last year I leaned out the 3-4K range and TP settings 0-20%.. so my last trial will be richen up the 3-4K/0-20 TP and see if that makes any differences. Beyond that, I'd be getting into above 20%, and that seems.... I don't know, away from the target since those ranges already get some good fuel percentages.

?

JDC, my apologies for sending you down a blind alley, you are not going to be able to duplicate the effects of the TRE 006a with simple mapping changes. I was talking to a gentleman on another forum who has a great deal of tuning expertise and as he explained, the problem is fuel shutoff on decel. The factory ECU mapping is programmed so that backing out of the throttle above a certain rpm shuts off the fuel flow in all gears except nuetral. Re-application of throttle is when you get the pop. Only at low rpms depending upon the gear selected, fuel flow continues on decel in order to eliminate snatchy throttle and soften driveline lash. No matter what you put in those higher rpm map cells, it's not going to make any difference as you have found out. The 006a selects the nuetral map for all six gears, there is no fuel shutoff in this map for quite obvious reasons, the engine would quit without fuel. You have a couple of choices here, buy the TRE, make your own with a resistor or have the ECU reflashed to eliminate fuel cut on decel in all gears. There was a gentleman on this forum some time back that had figured out how to do this....I think Hub may know him.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 3/19/2010 @ 8:16 AM *

Funny you should mention what I described while watching that AFR video over and over for clues. I think it was 'wrongway' and there was an EE who directed me to drop down to 8v off the battery's 12v to recharge the camera battery. I forgot his name, but if it was not wrongway, datta might be it or datta may know? I just know between Compton, datta, wrongway, IvAN you guys, I would have never gotten this far with an actuator sitting outside and watching the rest over rich the bitch...

JDC.... what is your resistance to working from the nuetral map as a starting point? Build a Hub locker (resistor) or buy one from Ivan (plug and play) for $49 and give it a shot. It's worked for the rest of us who've tried it and I know of no down side except loss of gear indicator. It seems like you're taking the long way around the barn here....the scenic route.

lol.... I'm often on the other side of the barn.

I had a TRE about 2k miles into the bike. Did nothing much for the TTD's, and lost the gear indicator.

I'd rather keep the pop, since I'm deaf I sometimes need that number since I can't remember where I am. It is sorta like a range finder... if I am still in 5th or less, I am likely within a mile or two from home...

6th gear and I could be anywhere.

Send out the search party!