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Thread: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?

Created on: 05/04/10 07:13 AM

Replies: 24

Kruz


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Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/04/10 7:13 AM

Ok, the facts are in on the new BMW S1000RR.....it's the real deal, even Brock Davidson is saying it's a game changer and it wasn't even designed as a drag racer. For years the ZX-10R ruled the roost of the literbikes as the horsepower king and it put out what......maybe 3 or 4 horsepower more than the rest? The BMW is a mind blowing 20+ Hp beyond the major players and that doesn't include the effects of the best dynamic traction control system in the business not to mention race ABS and shift assist. The Beemer is apparently not just about HP only as it has stellar performance in virtually every category.

My question is how the Big Four will respond and when? Let's face it, we are in a world financial crisis and bike sales worldwide are way off, not conducive to spending big bucks on R&D and product development. Suzuki did not even import 2010 motorcycles into the U.S. because of left over 2009 inventory and everyone else is pretty much stagnant. The 2 year development cycles for literbikes is apparently over, the ZX-10R for 2010 is almost identical to the '08 and '09 models except for "Bold New Graphics" dimpled exhaust can and polished shift internals. This is great timing for BMW as they are now the "cock of the walk" and no one seems to have the money or will power to challenge them. It's going to be very interesting to see how this all plays out. Will the Big Four try to play the numbers game with BMW and challenge them in outright horsepower or try to make what they have more useable through traction control and ABS. ONe thing is for sure, electronics are coming to a motorcycle near you and fast. The Japs are way behind BMW's lead in this department and will have to play catch up.

Personally, from what I've seen, the Honda CBR comes very close to matching the BMW's real world performance despite a 25+ hp deficit by virtue of light weight, nimble handling and mind blowing midrange hp that anyone can use anytime.
It's the Japanese A6M Zero of our time while the Beemer is more like a Messerschmidt 262 jet.

Rather than getting caught up in an endless top end battle where HP levels keep climbing to stratospheric levels along with the rpms, I'd like to see the Japs go to an ultra-light weight formula and useable power with real traction control, ABS and shift assistance like the Beemer.


* Last updated by: Kruz on 5/4/2010 @ 7:16 AM *



2021 Aprilia RSV4 2020 BMW S1000RR 2016 ZX-10R KRT 2016 959 Panigale Red 2015 CBR1000RR SP Repsol 2011 ZX-10R Ebony 2009 ZX-6R Lime Green 2006 ZX-14 Red 2004 VTX 1300C Candy Red "For we walk by faith and not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7

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Hub


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/04/10 1:35 PM

Mode A: Smooth linear delivery. Call it somewhere in the middle, the sub rises in the middle of a Gen1 ~ Gen2.
Mode B: Smooth Crisp response. This feels Gen2.
Mode C: Subs lock open from key fob on. Pick a switch on the right bar you feel like ABS.
Mode D: Rain slippers. She bleeds off the ABS so you spin, ABS kicks in. You are still with the subs locked in mode. OK, go to the right handle bar and select a sub speed.
Mode E: Extra the fuck out of the way mode. Full package. Yes, granny down the tone, select WOT you can't r-handle bar handle before I diE, I have cash waiting.

<<< Lift Crate, finally, a 2+2++. And it fits my fat ass this time!



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gone14


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Location: long island,ny

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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/04/10 8:19 PM

Kruz,the cbr 1000 is not a match for the bmw,,it blows by it a good 25 mph faster .watch the vid the other bike is a 08 cbr 1000

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willidx4



Joined: 03/17/09

Posts: 599

RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/05/10 10:41 AM

Kruz I have to agree with you on the HP issue its really over the top at this point. If Honda made a another CBR with 25 additional HP and no TC I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. I would however trade up if the bike was 25 lbs lighter than the current model and had better suspension. I guess it comes down to what type of ridding you like to do I don't ride on the street anymore so if its not lighter, sprung better, sticks better, stops better or improves my body position and skill its a waste of money.

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Hub


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/05/10 11:00 AM

Speed is relative and you are letting a wire run your throttle's back tire? Place your lips any ol' place.

"I want light weight anshit" = Oh, and add more harness and ABSwitching boxes, load my HP UP (.) IS.



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willidx4



Joined: 03/17/09

Posts: 599

RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/05/10 12:10 PM

subs bee akin up dee bull sheets it bee alls junk pulled from his ace to empress the follow a wong crowd dat don't knows no betta. But yes asking for lighter weight while adding parts is a big order.

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loadedmind


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/05/10 1:15 PM

Do we really need two Hubs?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmufqEW7Gtw&feature=player_embedded

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Kruz


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/05/10 1:32 PM

Kruz,the cbr 1000 is not a match for the bmw
The CBR can still spank the BMW where it counts, on the racetrack look at the May edition of SportRider, Beemer was in fourth place in lap times. BMW has yet to obtain a podium finish in WSB. Beemer has more topend than anything on the planet but who cares, you can't use it at 14,000 rpm anywhere except doing the mile or maybe drag racing. I will guarantee Honda is capable of building a liter with the same or better performance than the BMW, the question is do they want to and would it sell?



2021 Aprilia RSV4 2020 BMW S1000RR 2016 ZX-10R KRT 2016 959 Panigale Red 2015 CBR1000RR SP Repsol 2011 ZX-10R Ebony 2009 ZX-6R Lime Green 2006 ZX-14 Red 2004 VTX 1300C Candy Red "For we walk by faith and not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7

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heathun


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Location: Carrollton, Ga

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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/05/10 2:17 PM

I will guarantee Honda is capable of building a liter with the same or better performance than the BMW, the question is do they want to and would it sell?

Any of the big four could. What happens when these bikes hit the 200 at the wheel number? they are no longer manageable without traction control and anti wheeelie assist. These gadgets work by retarding the timing and cutting power so that they can be controlled, this in my opinion negates the need for the higher horsepower. If you cut these electronics off so that they don't interfere with the power and curve then you are at the mercy of the right hand and then things become equal among the liters.

I've seen 600's blister liters on tight tracks simply because they were lower powered and allowed them to get the throttle opened to the stop alot sooner on exit without losing traction when the liters had to hold off for fear of breaking the rear tire loose. Sure on a long front or back straight the horsepower will dominate but more time is made up in the corners in road racing because thats where most of your time is spent.


* Last updated by: heathun on 5/5/2010 @ 2:17 PM *



"You don't quit riding because you get old, You get old because you quit riding"!

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Rook


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/06/10 8:30 PM

I went to see the bimmer at a local dealer this weak. They had a greeny. It was sold and no one was permitted to sit on it. The sales guy races for the dealership and he said it flattened everything else he had ever been on. Of course, he sells BMWs so why would he say otherwise? He said the power is useless with out the traction control (once again, he sells them).

I don't know about you guys, but I have no problem sitting back and waiting.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Hub


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/06/10 11:47 PM

Pneumatic valves:

A Pintle plunger over the valves. No more cams. Just slam a crank number open/close on the valve timing. You can dial in grunt, top end, endless. Here, let me pull that engineering out of my ass so I can sit on it since we are waiting with cash mode buttons.



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Hub


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/07/10 7:48 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1ZABV7AQdA&feature=related How will they respond?



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Kruz


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/07/10 9:33 AM

Masterbike was a clean sweep for European designs with the S1000RR taking top spot. The article said that horsepower is now irrelevant without control..traction control and the Japanese will have to get up to speed on the electronics quick or play second fiddle to the Euros.


* Last updated by: Kruz on 5/7/2010 @ 9:34 AM *



2021 Aprilia RSV4 2020 BMW S1000RR 2016 ZX-10R KRT 2016 959 Panigale Red 2015 CBR1000RR SP Repsol 2011 ZX-10R Ebony 2009 ZX-6R Lime Green 2006 ZX-14 Red 2004 VTX 1300C Candy Red "For we walk by faith and not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7

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Hub


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/07/10 12:49 PM

Anyone playing in FI has the electronics down and that is Honda, then Ferrari. Time and time again, they prove who is the fastest is at the track. Production bikes hardly trickle down to HP. More, how well that dual transmission works out is that electronic step. You do know one of the factories stole a few round eyes to work the electronics for the GP bikes, right? Guess they can't get the kids from playing in the streets and not behind the drawing board at Mikuni. Sound familiar, a country losing it's edge?



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9secondsflat



Joined: 03/08/10

Posts: 121

RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/07/10 3:23 PM

Watch and see what dominates the stock 60 inch class this year at prostar.....as long as the clutch can hold this nazi will dominate anything from the rising sun.....or should i say flat out destroy every bike on the line....

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Hub


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/07/10 4:04 PM

YOu get a shrimp of a girl on that, and I'm inn. Someone toss me a short green one; I'll mold her, scold her man side, ass long as she has that female touch at the controls, I wish I was rich, she wishes. I was asked if I was going to go out and buy one. No is the answer. I told her I could wait. I'm sitting on a sofa that can hang in there.
That Beemer is going to be blindsided by Duc, KTM, or the Big4 eventually. Fucque up in a 1000 feet. 320 left to stretch your legs? Tell me this is not going to be fun watching; being the Mondayawn QB.

If it raises the bar and breaks records in pro stock, all the better. Byron Hines play in that class?


* Last updated by: Hub on 5/7/2010 @ 4:05 PM *



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Smokinzx14


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/07/10 7:57 PM

Watch and see what dominates the stock 60 inch class this year at prostar.....as long as the clutch can hold this nazi will dominate anything from the rising sun.....or should i say flat out destroy every bike on the line....
...........................................................................................................

First off the class is not 60 inch , it stock wheel base class ... Second the bike doesn't meet the AMA rules for SS class so you will not see one in that class .. The reason is you can not lower the bike with just a set of lowering links like the other bikes ..AMA turned down the request by Brock to mod the bike to lower it ..
A few pro riders have made some passes on the new BMW and the best so far was a 9.35 .. It does MPH well but far off from the ETs needed to run SS ( super sport class ) .. Biggest problem with the BMW is a very very tall first gear and lack luster low and mid range power , now add the fact to lower it you must relocate the shock so it doesn't hit the swing arm.. The clutch is an unknow but at a cost of over 350 for a replacement clutch i don't think many people are going to make this a drag bike ..While the BMW looks good on paper the track is a hole different story ..

The bike may do very well at roll on racing and may even set some standing mile records .. We will have to wait and see..


* Last updated by: Smokinzx14 on 5/7/2010 @ 8:06 PM *



2012 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95 ..Stock motor on pump gas ..Updated 8.42@163.95
Brocks Alien Head , P/C with Brocks street map , Brocks / Guhl Flash ..
Brocks dealer , see me for smokin deals on Brocks go fast parts @ ZX1441R.com

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Hub


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/07/10 8:53 PM

GS/RT 1st gear set? They use the same shaft sizes? Off the shelf select at the lick din steen set of gears is oh, here's some? @ $350 a pack and we have yet to order the untaakek partear unt special tools = RICH BOY RACER!


and your 9.'s



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Hub


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/07/10 9:06 PM

All kidding aside, you see that NY needle pinned at 186 and hang?; that is a 1 miler bike no doubt. Either you find a professional horse jockey, or bring a scale to the drags and weigh up some tiny talent and break some records. If only.

And I see no other 1000 out there. The time that Honda pitched that test rider off was the bike to beat that year. Did that bike pan out? I read the 14 brochure calling out the my ride of the year. Time me in with this bike I hear 190hp out of the crate, me with the 2+2 mentality?

Step up the bar I jump on a 2+2++ now in the near future.

WOT?



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Hub


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/07/10 10:32 PM

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6748133#utm_campaigne=synclickback&source=http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=40354&medium=6748133 < Here you go. Listening now. Takes awhile to load for me.

26 minute mark. Bike to beat like you didn't know 200+hp at the rear wheel-wink/wink~OhmTweak. Oh, now Aprilia (my choice I see one sitting ['08old] on the floor), they are now saying this is the TOP END BABY but too hard to setup. For whom?

Monza... My kind of track. Out braker from 326.9km to a shit can in my mind is eat something sugar coated, I watch the bike cam on race day, take my own line from there. This should be a good race.



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masszx14



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burbs of boston, ma

Joined: 04/03/09

Posts: 871

RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/08/10 11:57 AM

Roby's bike...


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syrinx



Joined: 04/23/10

Posts: 9

RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/08/10 12:38 PM

The BMW is a cool bike-But its figures are attainable for a ZX10 with mods. Main point- I don`t see the aftermarket being able to do much with the BMW- so in the real world it wont matter. It is the bike for bike tests though. I am not a fan of the whole electronics thing-but it is the wave of the future.

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Hub


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/08/10 12:42 PM

CHECKMATE! TOP SPEEDisease IS me. 2nd Bike I have my eye on; if I can sell the garage queen. Ever hear that engine note? I guess I heard something sugared sweet. Monza motor away from that RR.



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Hub


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RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/10/10 9:52 AM

And now... You know why... PAzYearazz[is]UP... Wear out is the cash window? Mona Money. If only. RR = (((Ring-Ring))) Eye got your top end 205 = 2+2++.

Soon to jump ship we do not see some action at the little island.



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willidx4



Joined: 03/17/09

Posts: 599

RE: Blitzkrieg..How Will The Big four Respond?
05/10/10 10:57 AM

The BMW is a cool bike-But its figures are attainable for a ZX10 with mods. Main point- I don`t see the aftermarket being able to do much with the BMW- so in the real world it wont matter. It is the bike for bike tests though. I am not a fan of the whole electronics thing-but it is the wave of the future.

You could but it would take a lot of work and not with bolt ons, check out the 09 Gixxer vs the BMW done by Brock. I think he knows a thing or two about fast bikes.

GSXR vs BMW

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