Really suck.... I know this has been covered before, Ive been really spooked since the last get off, never had a front lock up so easily like this before..even messing around with previous bikes the front would not lock up but do a stoppie instead
I don't even think abs will even help these tires
Anyway was out yesterday for pretty much the whole day, sure enough front locked up 3 times, and yes tires warm 3hrs into the ride....on the way home I can at will lock up the front, oh and yes as I complained in the past about the rear being squirlly,, no matter what pressuresI play with it slides and at times when you don't expect

Im hoping a set of something else will not do the same... So before I invest, is it truly the tire or is it the weight of the bike (heaviest bike I've ever owned)
Can any stunters out there get this bike to do endo or stoppies
Just pisses me off, totally lost my confidence with this bike for emergency situations

Sorry to hear about that bud. Endo and stoppies are a no no with the 14 even more so with the 14R, all that weight slamming the concrete then you add the soft shock! If I were buying new, I would get the dealership to replace the tires with better ones. The OEM tires are junk, whether they are as bad as you describe is irrelevant because if you don't feel they are up to the task, it doesn't matter. If you like to carve corners, I suggest you try the Q2's, they will last you about 3k miles but they are relatively cheap and stick like glue. The transition from partial to "full lean" is really linear. If you want about 1k miles extra and faster "flickability" try the Rosso Corsa (they warm up a little slower than the Q2's) or the Michelin PP 2CT. At the end of the day you have to try tires out to see what you like and what works for the bike. I was lucky, to find what I like early: Pilot Road 3 for 75% commute and 25% fun, Rosso Corsa for 50-50 and R10's for 25-75!
Good Luck

* Last updated by: dragking on 3/27/2013 @ 12:05 AM *

My bike handles pretty good with the Metzlers, hoping it will handle better with the PR3's ....

I have to agree here with Cara...I kinda like the Metzlers....If these are not the same as the factory Metzler M5's...then I would even consider replacing these Dealer tires with another 'factory" set.I didn't like them disappearing at 1200 miles...not good.But the performance was top notch I thought.I don't know what I'll get from my new ones(the Metzlers on my new bike)but so far they're not showing any sign of wear...at 500+ miles.Not much I know...I went with Dunlop Streetsmart Ones on my other 14R when it was time.They were a very good tire as well...better than I expected.Lasted much longer and gripped very well...never a slip cornering that I could tell,and I rolled pretty good sometimes.

I have better opinions on the first gen pilot roads that were on my FZ1 but again that bike was lighter
I think it really is the weight of the bike,, just don't know
Think I'll try the Q2 and see.. If I can't get my confidence back.. Then it's time to let her go

Shit man....no way...not over some tires.Get some Shinkos then...go have fun...replace as necessary.This bike is too cool to ditch so soon....Get ya some sticky track tires...and go have fun Bro!

I'm having a great time with the stock Metezlers, but I *think* I have different goals than the OP.

My goals are long wear on the daily commute, and 10-20% funtime in the local mountains (which roads are really good, for mountain roads).

So, I'm over 7,500 and still have lots of life in the original 2012 tires. "Lots" being say another 1000 or so, they're wearing slower on the commute now that the contact patch is getting bigger from squaring off. Leo would be appalled at the handling right now.

These Metezlers get good reviews for "Motorcyclist", just this past issue, on the "long term ride" assessment. For handling, and tire life. These guys are experts, and they like them. I'll likely stay with them because they're meeting my goals, and I'll retain the 9K or so handling experience into the next set (instead of re-learning a different tire handling response curve).

I'm very likely not as aggressive as Drag or Leo, so of course that makes a difference regarding Leo's point. I dont know what he's doing to lock that front tire so much, but I'm guessing braking late and hard into corners and / or other braking opportunities.

I read you dont think it will help, but I also think that it's an assumption on your part, that ABS will not improve the handling under the conditions you're encountering. So, now I'm curious. You've stated that it wont help. Would you please tell us why you believe that? Do you have any ABS equipment experience?

Leo, to your point: You're pushing street riding very (dangerously) close to your cycle's limits. It's talking to you with every slide that occurs. Listen to it. My opinion is, Dont try to fix what sounds like an aggressive control application (braking) with an equipment change (tires). Take it to Track days, let some objective observers see your control inputs, and get some advice there.

Please do this before you're hurt (more, I see the neck X-Ray).

I put up with those pieces of crap for about 1k miles then went to 2ct like i usally run. The back just
Wanted to slid when leaned over very far the front seemed ok and i tried diff pressures in rear, soon as i went to 2cts then problem solved can lean over way over and grips with confidence! Didnt want to spend the money that soon but was worth it!

* Last updated by: speedyme on 3/26/2013 @ 1:23 PM *

Just curious, did anyone have their suspension set up ? I have to get my butt down to this place, and have them look at it, just to see if they can fine tune it, it's only $25 the place is called Catalyst Reaction Suspension Tuning

* Last updated by: carabuser on 3/26/2013 @ 2:04 PM *

@grn: will never get rid of bike for crappy tires.. That can be changed, most likely I'm just not used To how a heavy bike reacts to emergency oh shit situactions... This bike should of came with ABS in the first place.. The euro versions had it as an option for years.. Hate it when empires set profits ahead of loyal customers safety
I've had plentyof oh shit situations in my day and never had a bike prior to this lock up, it always endoed, and would laugh at the folks looking to get ABS .... Now I know why

@mengarner: completely opposite of your purpose....hooligan, But sensible, I will never ride out of my skill level.. I like to ride the "pace" my problem is that right now I can not ride the way I normally do, I just don't trust this bike/front tire.. This is one less thing I needn't to concentrate on
I'm edge to edge with these tires and the rear skippy do, does not bother me as much as the front, I'm familiar with
Some sliding but locking up the front (ive experienced some slight chirping, but not complete lock up) completely new to me, yes I know I'm hard on the brakes, it's my environment, living in the city is just full of idiots in cars
As for the ABS statement that was sarcasm.. Maybe I just need to take it easy within city limits..

@carabuser: suspension set up is the very first thing that I get done on all my bikes and proffesionaly performed
Trial and error with tire pressures would be thenext step

* Last updated by: leo167 on 3/26/2013 @ 4:00 PM *

These 14's will skid...dangerously in emergency stops where ya lock up wheels...gotta be cautious when braking hard....You'll get the feel for it...the main thing(I think) is to think ahead,and adjust driving speeds and such with the 'possibilities' in mind if ya know what I mean.Easier to 'avoid' skidding situations than get into one and THEN try to correct....IMO.I know that's not possible at times....things happen.

These Metezlers get good reviews for "Motorcyclist", just this past issue, on the "long term ride" assessment. For handling, and tire life. These guys are experts, and they like them.

Yea the OEM tires are different than what you buy in the aftermarket, some say they do not use as many compounds
etc, to keep the cost down for the bike maker ..

@dragking:

Ok, thanks. You all have more experience than me with the different tires. I value your opinion...

@leo:

You, too. Thanks for giving me the respect, and the tolerance you've shown me in your replies. I'm grateful to you, too...

So, a new piece of information has appeared, I think. Leo, you're describing these experiences of front tire lock during city driving, do I read that correctly? I intepret that as traffic-light-to-light, stop 'n go, lots of intersections, etc. You know, typical city traffic.

If I read that correct, and you're telling me you're driving tire edge-to-edge in those traffic conditions.

Do I understand that correct? I probably have this wrong, given you've written you dont ride out of your skill level.

I believe Grn has given some good advice above, and I see you start to think about taking it easier in the city traffic. I'm smiling towards you :)

@dragking and carabuser.. Didnt know that, on previous bikes, after replacing just thought that I was getting to know the bike better.... Got ballsier with new rubber... Have to keep this in mind, and new non OEM tires might be the trick
Getting excited now...

@mebgardner: yes within city limits, stop and go, a lot of distractions, cagers rushing through intersections or driveways, well you know, a whole heap of things to look out for.. Edge to edge stuff only occurs when I break city
Limits, say 2 or so hours away.. Inside the barriers I "tend" to follow speed limits because of all the distractions that I have to make or try and be aware of..(but will never do the apeeds or style that I do when at places where you can stretch your legs) sometimes you will get the special ones that will make you grab a handful of brake

@grn: agreed about your comment and will just be more cautious... Gauge things out.. Hopefully new rubber will give me back a Little confidence so I could be more relaxed

I will try the q2 or pilots (non OEM) and see how it goes from there
Thanks for all your input, appreciate it

@carabuser:

I want to make sure I'm not missing your point.

I think you're saying the, *in the same brand and model*, the after-market tires are compounded differently than the OEM.

For example, the Metezler M5. You're saying the Metezler M5 I buy after-market, off the shelf, is compounded differently than the one's supplied to Kaw. OEM. Because the one supplied to Kaw is made to a price point, but labelled the same.

Is that what you mean?

That's different than the idea that I think Leo has stated here.

Bob.

@mebgardner

Yes, from what I have heard and read, the OEM tires of the same brand and model are different, like the OEM metzler will have 3 different compounds, were as the one you buy online etc .. will have 5 compounds or "zones" just using that as an example, not saying that is exactly the way it is, but thats what I read, will try and dig up the article ....

Yup, thanks.

A friend pointed me at what appears to be independent confirmation of the OEM .vs After-Market Metezler M5 model differences.

From a written repy from "NA Metzeler M/C Tires Consumer Affairs", here:

http://zx1441r.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=239

OEM "E" spec: Single Compound.

AfterMarket "standard" spec: (new M5 for 2013): Multi-Compound (presumably, 5 compound, but not stated).

Yup, thanks.

A friend pointed me at what appears to be independent confirmation of the OEM .vs After-Market Metezler M5 model differences.

From a written repy from "NA Metzeler M/C Tires Consumer Affairs", here:

http://zx1441r.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=239

OEM "E" spec: Single Compound.

AfterMarket "standard" spec: (new M5 for 2013): Multi-Compound (presumably, 5 compound, but not stated).

I just 'happened' to go out and look at my tires...these aren't Metzlers on here....they're Battlax's.Bridgestones!=0

...well...they grip really good in the rain...gotta say that!LOL!!!!Guess Kawi renewed their partnership with the Stones Company;)SHEESH.....

Grn14 are they S20's if so it is what we get here in Oz as OEM tyres. Plenty of grip but they don't last long!

Neil

I totally agree with the OP. The OEM M5's sucked! Some may recall my thread where I lowsided a few weeks back on my '12 14R when the front got squirrely under hard braking and then locked, then boom on the ground. They NEVER gave me any confidence on the bike at all and seemed to take forever to heat up. They would slip and slide all over. I just never wanted to push the bike at all in the corners because I didn't trust them. My '13 14R has the new S20's on it and they are WORLDS better than the Metz. It's like a whole new bike. Better handling, better ride quality and loads of grip. They really brought the confidence back to riding the big beast.

As for the compound they are a single compound tire but supposedly have 5 steel bands and varying tensions (or something like that) around the tire which are supposed to help handling the farther over you get. I didn't dig it at all. I love the 2CT's and they were next up but the new stones I have on the '13 are just awesome, really enjoying the so far.

Tires make a break a bike, I run stones on my Victory as well and over the Dunflops that were on that they are also a ton better. Quieter, better handling and better ride.

Thanks Neil;)And all these miles I thought........ ...so...what did you replace with?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 3/28/2013 @ 11:31 PM *

I replaced the S20's with Pilot Power 2CT's, & have just replaced those with Pilot Power 3's. Just had my first decent ride with these, very similar in feel to the 2's. I like to break new tyres in easy as I believe if you do so they last a little longer. Weather permitting I will be out again on Sunday, but with Easter the law will be around, so will have to see how I go!

Neil

& have just replaced those with Pilot Power 3's.