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Thread: Engine Performance

Created on: 05/28/09 09:40 PM

Replies: 40

Grn14


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Location: Montana

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Posts: 15511

Engine Performance
05/28/09 9:40 PM

Okay guys-just to let ya know-I LOVE my 14!-but I've got a question..........My buddy's got an 08 BUSA. Very nice bike.Has a PC on it,with Alien Head exhaust.Here's the thing.WHY DOES HIS ENGINE RESPOND QUICKER than My 14's?I'm not talking about throttle.His engine just seems to rev quicker-is that true?And Can I get mine to be more responsive with some mods(besides Turbo or nitrous).Thanks all.

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21241

RE: Engine Performance
05/28/09 10:20 PM

I have yet to try a G2 busa but from vids i see of tach rev in N, what you say is true. Faster rev. I would think that is largely due to the higher compression. Whatcha think???

Install a skinny head spacer and you can get all kinds of extra compression. You could easily get as much as the G2 busa and more if you dare. Ask slowninja. He'll tell ya all about it. He bumped up the compression on his bike a long time ago.

Rook



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13917

RE: Engine Performance
05/28/09 10:57 PM

I'm telling you... Sync the throttle body and do not hit the throttle after they dial in. Huge difference!



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Rook


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RE: Engine Performance
05/28/09 11:03 PM

^^^^That is one of those tips I know I'm going to want to remember some day because I have all I can handle right now. Hope you don't mind repeating yourself for me when the time comes, Hub.


* Last updated by: Rook on 5/28/2009 @ 11:04 PM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Engine Performance
05/28/09 11:49 PM

Thanks guys-and Hub-Okay-sync the bodies(My mechanic supposedly did that a month ago).And just what do you mean"don't hit the throttle after they're dialed in"?He also put new plugs in there-but they were NOT the stock plugs-they were CR9EHIX-9's(iridiums).Gotta say-I noticed NO change in the way it ran before compared to after-and in all honesty,It wasn't idling as smooth as it did BEFORE he worked on it.It still doesn't idle as smooth as before.I was ,well,disappointed-not to mention I had to pull over into a Quick stop parking lot and PUT THE PLASTICS BACK ON CORRECTLY_Geez.Took me most of an hour to do that itself,plus,they had the bike ALL DAY.Yeah,disappointed-and not anxious to take it back over there again.I mean,with new plugs and a sync,you'd think she would at least idle smooth and have A LITTLE more pep?Those plugs he put in there ARE NOT the same number that are in the manual-if that matters.Maybe he didn't gap em correctly?Sh&%,I really don't know.This was done about three weeks ago. You guys think that Alien Head exhaust might allow his to breathe better?Will a less restricted exhaust help these engines to be peppier?I don't know ANYTHING about this stuff in all honesty.I'm wonderin if maybe it's just "the sound" of his pipe that's makin it seem like it's revving quicker?It isn't BY MUCH,I'll say that.And my bird has NO problemo kickin in in any gear from around 2,500 to anywhere above.She does have plenty of response as she revs higher.Whattayou guys think-just a different animal? And another thing I want to ask you guys-I've got you know-flies out-16/42 gearing-PCIII.What rev ranges should I be running my bike in for the best get up and go performance?We all know they pull better at different rpms in any given gear.But if I'm crusin the canyons or doin a blast,should I be stayin "up" in the upper rpm ranges for any given gear?Does this hurt our engines?I'm really not sure if I'm even riding this bike to it's performance abilities.(I think I've got the "straight line" shifting from 1st through 6th down-She definitely hauls azzzz!!And I've got that front tire gettin light as I'm shiftin.(not that that "means "anything).I just don't know where she's REALLY happy at.Any thoughts?I don't know what our inline fours of this size are supposed to be ridden like.


* Last updated by: blue07 on 5/29/2009 @ 12:15 AM *

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

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RE: Engine Performance
05/29/09 1:40 AM

When I said not to yank on the throttle, it meant that when I set my sync, the rpm ripped with the slightest movement. When it was not in sync, it lagged to a different spin. It just surprised me about how different the response felt.

As long as you are not hearing that crank chatter over the teeth on a slow rpm and a heavy pull in too high a gear? Then, yes... Shift down to remove that load. Other that that, you can low rpm through the curves as long as you are high in rpm not to cause the crank to rattle, you are good to go.

The pipe is going to have an effect. But not like pulling over to the side to fix the plastic. That means that sync is just as loose to cause a vibration = If he moved that sync screw, then I would chase that sync rather than the pipe to regain that smoother ride you felt before. You are not too willing to return. So, you need to find an experienced hand. That screw is not easy to get to without a selection of the right tools.

I have the oil change going. I might as well check the sync. If it reads off of how close I had it, that means yours was way off if you have over 6k and never touched or checked yet. Wait till you get that correct for the ultimate reason this bike runs that smooth.



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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Engine Performance
05/29/09 9:10 AM

Okay HUB-I appreciate your input there I have ordered as well a new set of gears-stock setup.I like the pull and all from the 16/42,but it is more vibey.And the fuel mileage(not that that's too critical,definitely went south).If I recall correctly,it was very smooth and responsive with my stock gearing on there.Enough for my wants anyway.I keep thinkin(maybe erroneously?)this bike is a "race bike" on steroids.It's not,right?It's a performance package that cruises and blasts-yes?The big engine isn't gonna act like a liter bike,am I right on this?(BTW,I've NEVER ridden a literbike).So maybe I'm expecting "too much"?(sounds crazy I know!!)I'm VERY HAPPY with my bike afterall.I wouldn't get rid of it.Just posted up my thoughts on er,that's all.Thanks again Hub.


* Last updated by: blue07 on 5/29/2009 @ 9:17 AM *

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1minerman


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Tazewell, VA, USA

Joined: 02/20/09

Posts: 99

RE: Engine Performance
05/29/09 9:25 PM

Hey blue07, the busa SEEMS to rev kwiker, but who gets to the finish line 1st??
And which one revs kwiker when under load,(and not just trying to make noise)??? "I bet it is the ZX14"

by the way changing the gearing to stock is not going to make it rev kwiker...



2008 ZX14 MMSB
Muzzy M14/M10<<<>>>>>>PCIII
BMC Race Filter<<<>>>>Vortex 43T/KHI 16T
Pirelli SC 190/55<<>>>Race Railz
Puig Windscreen<<<>>>>Projekt D Rad. Guard
Engine Ice<<<<<<<>>>>>Amsoil 20w-50syn
"Head Down and Elbows Out"
"Any motorcycle with 2-wheels that roll, a functioning engine/motor(I'm not gas biased,lol), and will move of its own power, I will have fun on, but on a 14 its Always a Fu***ng BLAST!"

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DEK


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Location: Yadkinville NC

Joined: 05/18/09

Posts: 28

RE: Engine Performance
05/29/09 10:51 PM

I'm sorry but this guy is just not making any sense at all.


* Last updated by: DEK on 5/29/2009 @ 10:52 PM *

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kawnow


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Location: Oregon

Joined: 02/07/09

Posts: 268

RE: Engine Performance
05/30/09 12:12 AM

Which one?

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Engine Performance
05/30/09 8:33 AM

Thanks Minerman-Only thinking about going back to stock gearing for the vibe factor.It's a toss up.I really like the 16/42 setup.I'll keep that on there until I wear the gears down.And as far as revving-ya-my 14 revs fine.I guess I was still disappointed about the work my mechanic did before.Went for a real nice ride yesterday-she runs VERY WELL.Very smooth.Way plenty of power.Thanks for your input there-Ride safe!!!

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Hub


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Posts: 13917

RE: Engine Performance
05/30/09 9:06 AM

Now, I sort of figured out the buzz with the different gear ratios at the sprockets. Yes, in 4th or 5th, I low rpm my bike around corners, but never to the point of crank chatter. So, when you said the buzz is on, I can feel the buzz in the lower gears as if I changed sprockets. If that is what you meant, blue, because now the bike runs fine... I think you are feeling that 3,000rpm window up to 4K.

Because at 4 to 5k, I am looking at the key fob again = So smooth is my baby's azz is sound asleep > Is it running? I've never been on a smoother running bike.

I hear ya, DEK. I can't make heads or tail of the members ear is read their shit.



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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Engine Performance
05/30/09 9:18 AM

Ya Hub-That's pretty much it.She gets a little more vibey at 6 or 7 and on up.My only thought is the gearing.Other than that-she flys!And smooth.The vibes aren't anything I'm gonna worry about.It's not that bad.Thanks.I don't know what you mean about "crank chatter" though.You mean "lugging?" I don't lug my engine-ever.


* Last updated by: blue07 on 5/30/2009 @ 9:21 AM *

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Hub


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RE: Engine Performance
05/30/09 10:59 AM

Yep, lug her I do but never too many chatters encountered. I hear that chatter because I am so lazy, the other day I left it in 6th or 5th again. I coasted to a stop and never moved it back to first. Say, I stabbed 6th to 5th thinking I hit first. Stuff like that.


Is that not torque flight hidden under her skirt?



* Last updated by: Hub on 5/30/2009 @ 11:06 AM *



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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Engine Performance
05/30/09 11:11 AM

Got it.No,I make sure I don't lug my baby.I was more concerned about going into redline.Mine doesn't balk until I get to 11,500.(redline's marked at 11,000).Any thoughts on redlining?

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Hub


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RE: Engine Performance
05/30/09 2:04 PM

This is the 3rd time @ 6K on the speedo; I found the sync was out; ever so slight. I took a guess on the twist. It took me about 25 minutes to train myself again as a dentist, hole the mirror on the case; use the needle flex light; change Philips bits this time around; finally found the screw to Philips hex as I opened the throttle to sent the X in the screw head; took a guess on the direction and made said twist....

It was an instant cold start with fresh oil and filter change. Again, not a cam chain peep as it lit up a second time and that merc was spot on at idle. Once again, I do not sync with a hot engine if vacuum is vacuum hot or cold. I am heading out for a test ride with full syn a sync and a lubed chain.

Who loves their bike? Love to sneak up on your out of syncares is Zeye tell it like it IS..... DEK Ear deckear/ Braker/Breaker.... OVer?

Redlining:
Yeah, I have a thought. I thought peak torque was 9,500rpm? Therefore, you over rev and nosedive out of peak torque. If you 10,300rpm or guess around those numbers, give or take a few hundred either way, you are just spinning your mouse on the wheel and his legs can only go so fast. So, the deal is to shift and you are back up at the theoretical 9,500peak torque and up the rpm again to match the next gear going to ping back down to the 9,500 torque peak.

Nothing is at 11 or 11.5K is how you can play that peak [torque] game if not all out Maxton or longer runs on the top end mph, then you want that 10k plus for the ratio and see if that nosedive can get you there gear wise.



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Grn14


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Location: Montana

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RE: Engine Performance
05/31/09 1:14 AM

Thanks Hub-I forgot to look at the max torque at which rpm and hp.Ya,I should probably stay out of redline huh?

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Romans


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Location: Toronto,ON

Joined: 02/13/09

Posts: 5933

RE: Engine Performance
05/31/09 5:40 AM

Blue, the after market 16 tooth sprocket has been reported to have a buzz from it. The one you installed, does it have the cushion in behind ?

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Hub


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RE: Engine Performance
05/31/09 6:44 AM

Yes, blue, I would use the shift light and start to see what rpm to shift at once the red light hits to return to the peak torque. So, going to 11,000rpm shows on a dyno chart how that line nosedrops at the higher rpms. So gauge that spin with the light and seat of the pants how that torque rises and stops then goes dead the higher in rpm you reach.

After that ride with the buzz you mentioned, I found a new, very technical, down hill, hair pin turn, scary, dirty road. I more got lost, but what country. So many orange and avocado trees in a hidden valley of hills. The more I ran up to 4k rpm, the more the buzz dwindled in that lower gear. So, I felt that buzz begin to diminish in the lower gear, them more I moved the revs to 4K.

This was also the sync-run-test = WOW! is all I can say...



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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Engine Performance
05/31/09 7:26 AM

Romans-it's an aftermarket sprocket made by Driven.It does not have the rubber bushing.

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1minerman


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Tazewell, VA, USA

Joined: 02/20/09

Posts: 99

RE: Engine Performance
05/31/09 10:07 PM

In the old forum there was alot of people that reported the vibes and whine with the aftermarket front sprocket, blue.

The one from KHI has the same design as the original 17tooth one..

It is off a '92- '95 Kawasaki ZR-1100 Zephyr
The old part# was 13144-1317.
The new Part # is 13144-1200.

I don't know why KHI has changed the part #'s.

But anyhow you want the oem sprocket for the Zephyr.



2008 ZX14 MMSB
Muzzy M14/M10<<<>>>>>>PCIII
BMC Race Filter<<<>>>>Vortex 43T/KHI 16T
Pirelli SC 190/55<<>>>Race Railz
Puig Windscreen<<<>>>>Projekt D Rad. Guard
Engine Ice<<<<<<<>>>>>Amsoil 20w-50syn
"Head Down and Elbows Out"
"Any motorcycle with 2-wheels that roll, a functioning engine/motor(I'm not gas biased,lol), and will move of its own power, I will have fun on, but on a 14 its Always a Fu***ng BLAST!"

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Engine Performance
05/31/09 10:22 PM

Right on Miner!It has a rubber bushing on it?It's a 16 tooth?Gonna order one now-Thanks(I do love my 16/42 gearing!)


* Last updated by: blue07 on 5/31/2009 @ 10:23 PM *

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1minerman


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Location:

Tazewell, VA, USA

Joined: 02/20/09

Posts: 99

RE: Engine Performance
05/31/09 11:09 PM

I know where you coming from blue, love mine also. It does't matter when you crack the throttle, the power is always there waiting...And it makes pulling wheelies in 2nd, almost effortless.



2008 ZX14 MMSB
Muzzy M14/M10<<<>>>>>>PCIII
BMC Race Filter<<<>>>>Vortex 43T/KHI 16T
Pirelli SC 190/55<<>>>Race Railz
Puig Windscreen<<<>>>>Projekt D Rad. Guard
Engine Ice<<<<<<<>>>>>Amsoil 20w-50syn
"Head Down and Elbows Out"
"Any motorcycle with 2-wheels that roll, a functioning engine/motor(I'm not gas biased,lol), and will move of its own power, I will have fun on, but on a 14 its Always a Fu***ng BLAST!"

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Kruz


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Location:

Republic of Texas

Joined: 03/16/09

Posts: 6872

RE: Engine Performance
06/01/09 7:15 AM

I have a few commentaries. On the original question regarding the perception that the Busa revs quicker, it's not an illusion. Crank inertia plays a big role here. The 14's crank is dual counterweighted hence the uncanny smoothness for a big bore but that increases the weight and inertia of the crank(not necessarily a bad thing). The Busa is single coungterweighted, likely a significantly lighter crank and thus quicker to rev. Downside is the Busa motor is a bit of a shaker. How smooth is the 14? By comparison my CBR1000's mill feels like a paint mixer between 5 and 8K then smooths out up to the redline. My 14 is glassy smooth from idle to redline so I accept the slower revving nature, it doesn't mean anything anyway and a quick revver can get you into trouble in low traction situations where throttle control is not perfect.

On the chain/sprocket vibration issue. I ran into this issue last summer with stock chain and sprocket, strangely (or maybe not so strangely) right after a rear tire change. I tracked it down to what I thought was the culprit, a plugged airfilter (10K miles) and rich mix causing the vibes. The filter change helped but the bike was still not as smooth as I remembered. Over time it settled down and got smooth again and I didn't notice any more vibes until I changed my rear tire again last month. Vibes back for a short time and then quickly smoothed out this time. Hmmmm...this got me thinking. I know my tire guy is dynamically balancing my tires on a spin balancer so I'm not worried about that but what about chain to sprocket matching? Over time the sprocket teeth wear to the indivdual chain link pitch. When changing the rear tire I never checked to index the sprocket teeth to the chain before and after tire removal.I remember Hub talking about this awhile back but thought he was joking, I will definitely look at this at the next tire change and see if it makes a difference.

Kruz



2021 Aprilia RSV4 2020 BMW S1000RR 2016 ZX-10R KRT 2016 959 Panigale Red 2015 CBR1000RR SP Repsol 2011 ZX-10R Ebony 2009 ZX-6R Lime Green 2006 ZX-14 Red 2004 VTX 1300C Candy Red "For we walk by faith and not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Engine Performance
06/01/09 9:32 AM

Good info Kruz-That makes sense.There are a lot of variables with these bikes.Sometimes it is hard to get it pinned down to real cause.Thanks for your response.The chain/sprocket wear thing may be exactly why certain sprocket noises diminish over time.(or get worse?).I think the vibes I'm feeling at certain loads and rpms are exactly that.You don't think the"vibration"could cause any crank issues do you?BTW-the vibes are NOT annoying or distressing-very mild and transient.So I'm really not concerned-just wondered if anyone else experienced this changing to a 16 up front.And what you said about the weight factor of the two engines-ya-I see that.Makes sense.I'm VERY happy with my baby-What's a millisecond of revs anyway?My bike flys when I let er.

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