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Thread: Master Bike

Created on: 06/30/10 03:10 PM

Replies: 15

mikegolf



Location:

NC (part time) & FL

Joined: 03/24/10

Posts: 6

Master Bike
06/30/10 3:10 PM

Good afternoon all! I hope everyone has been enjoying the riding season so far.
I have an opinion question (that I would love to see written up about in the various motorcycle mags)
This is a two part question. There has been a lot of fanfare and accolades about the new BMW sportbike that is cranking out crazy amount of HP. I'm sure it is a fine bike in it's own rights (minus the headlights) and it is shown to have a top speed (governed, I'm sure) of 188 mph. More than most of use/need anyway. This speed, to my recollection, surpasses the "gentlemen's agreement" that most of the manufacturers agreed on. All that being said, do you think this will cause the manufacturers to ignore the "agreement" and start making bikes with top speeds even higher?
My next question: There usually is a "master bike" article written yearly in a couple of the bike mags. They usually compare the main liter bikes, the Daytona 675, Gixxer 750 (when it was out) and the 600's. Do you think the other sportbikes like the Busa, and ZX14 should be included as well? I know some will say those larger bikes are really "sport tourers" but public perception is they are all "crotch rockets" or belong basically in the sport bike category. I know each bike has it's advantages and disadvantages IE- 600's are lighter and more "flickable", but lack on steam. Busa and 14 would have straight line advantage, but not as maneuverable. IF they did a true Masterbike competition and tested track, street, comfort, HP, all the categories we usually look at when comparing bikes, how do you think the 14 would do in all the categories with an experienced rider on board?



luck is when preparation meets opportunity

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scottfarm


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Joined: 04/22/10

Posts: 84

RE: Master Bike
06/30/10 3:16 PM

Absolutely the best bike on the planet.

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Jeff01ss


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Location: Missouri

Joined: 04/29/09

Posts: 724

RE: Master Bike
06/30/10 4:29 PM

the gentle man's agreement was the Japanese manufactures.



The problem with the world today is that there is no one to eat the stupid people!

You taught me hate, I'll teach you fear!

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mikegolf



Location:

NC (part time) & FL

Joined: 03/24/10

Posts: 6

RE: Master Bike
06/30/10 4:42 PM

Well if it is only the japanese manufacturers who agree on it, and BMW "one ups" them on it, (as a selling point for the bike) do you think they will come back and crank out a Honda, Kawi,Yamaha Suzuki that will hit 190? Let's face it, all the Japanese bikes for so long have dominated the sport bike world. Now, BMW comes out with a lighter, faster, more ponies bike. What next? 195? 200? (like we really need that anyway, but hey, bragging rights carry a lot of weight when it comes to sales)Get all that from a liter bike, and soon the 600's will be pushing 175 mph. Can't forget the Busa and 14 reputation. maybe they up the ante to 210? doesn't sound so crazy when it comes to selling a product.
Still would want to know - in all honesty - how the 14 would fare in a "masterbike" competition.



luck is when preparation meets opportunity

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21235

RE: Master Bike
06/30/10 6:42 PM

it is shown to have a top speed (governed, I'm sure) of 188 mph. ....do you think this will cause the manufacturers to ignore the "agreement" and start making bikes with top speeds even higher?

The big 4 made a wise choice to restrict all bikes' top speed. It is a great PR for the benefit of those who do not sport ride motorcycles. All sport riders know or quickly hear that it is a simple matter to derestrict a sportbike. The big 4 will make bikes capable of greater speed but they will continue to restrict them and we will continue to derestrict them.

F they did a true Masterbike competition and tested track, street, comfort, HP, all the categories we usually look at when comparing bikes, how do you think the 14 would do in all the categories with an experienced rider on board?

Track testing, 1/4 mile and top speed gives a good reflection of overall performance IMHO. A mag comparo of all the liters and hyperbikes was done in some 2008 article. It was discussed in depth on the "dead forum." I'm sure it was Kruz who posted the topic. The busa and the 14 came up lapping well over a second slower than the liternbikes on a track. No big surprise and perhaps not too extremely big of a deal if you are not a track rider. The times for 0-100 and 0- top speed were also tested and the 14 and busa did very well as anyone would expect.

I am sure they will have to do something to the hyperbikes soon to keep up sales. Also, if they start getting their asses kicked in LSR and drag racing and then people will really not buy them. There will be few interested buyers left and they will just buy a Connie to serve their needs if they di not demand top performance.


* Last updated by: Rook on 6/30/2010 @ 6:46 PM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13917

RE: Master Bike
06/30/10 7:04 PM

The gov can't even plug a hole in the ocean you have the british technology with 700 fuckups, so count out the brits making anything worth a shit is a MessHAShit they copy germanjunk.

So, no, you cannot compare a 352cc engine shoved into 1000cc's call it a MasterBaitear. It's wide and can't corner like a thin, lean, light, 350cc's less mass. That's like another bike in there. YOu gonna steer two bikes?

Master has the HP to get you there quicker. We get to 186 quicker, then uncork it for racing? So much for stopping technology is get the gov involved is can't even stop a leak is a leak over 186 they sound so stupid to even come up with the idea.

Don't worry, the bikes get faster is because man can adapt and someone in power needs to leave. Leave others alone to just stay out of speeds business, no one is dying left and right. OK, they die more people turning left in front of them than all the jock itch powder you can throw at all those fast bikes, no one is dying going fast.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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mikegolf



Location:

NC (part time) & FL

Joined: 03/24/10

Posts: 6

RE: Master Bike
06/30/10 7:18 PM

Thanks Rook. I must have missed that article on the hyperbike literbike comparo. I agree that the bikes should be restricted. No one really needs that much speed anyway. Key word is needs. Having the bragging rights to the fastest, most HP or whatever is what I think many impressionable new (or seasoned) riders look for. I'm not sure, but IMHO a potential bike buyer goes by how the bike looks ( a bad point for the BMW - damn the odd headlights ) but also, is this the baddest, fastest, most horsepower bike out there? whether you plan to or can even handle that much power. I just know that in the latest articles I have seen, the BMW has all but trounced the big 4. It makes me wonder what is in store for next year. And yes, the 14 and Busa will need to do something other than a change in paint scheme to keep sales going. of course, once again, you get into the inevitable more ponies, more power, more speed just to keep bike sales up.



luck is when preparation meets opportunity

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Kruz


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Location:

Republic of Texas

Joined: 03/16/09

Posts: 6861

RE: Master Bike
07/01/10 1:56 PM

Yup, Rooks right it was Cycle World and the difference was more like 2-1/2 seconds a lap between the liters and the hyperbikes. Depending on the track, the 600's might even open up more of a lead on the hyperbikes. Masterbike is a track test, the bike that laps quickest under the most riders wins, that's the format and I don't see it changing any time soon. Let's face it, the hyperbikes handle fantastically well for what they are but they are not track bikes, just too heavy.You could hustle them through the esses for a lap or two but then you'd quickly wear yourself out. Also suspension settings on these big gentleman are dialed more for comfort than absolute control, without stiffer springs in the front end, the 14 pitches nose down too much on corner entry under max braking. That being said, they can still kick some liter and supersport butt on the right road with the right rider on board.

Now to go back to your original question, could the hyperbikes compete if we factored in touring comfort as well as track manners, lap times etc. Of course but then you'd be getting away from the original idea of the Masterbike Competition.


As we've discussed many times on this forum, if you are going to have just one sport bike in your garage to do it all, you can't go wrong with either a 14 or a Busa.


* Last updated by: Kruz on 7/1/2010 @ 2:08 PM *



2021 Aprilia RSV4 2020 BMW S1000RR 2016 ZX-10R KRT 2016 959 Panigale Red 2015 CBR1000RR SP Repsol 2011 ZX-10R Ebony 2009 ZX-6R Lime Green 2006 ZX-14 Red 2004 VTX 1300C Candy Red "For we walk by faith and not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13917

RE: Master Bike
07/01/10 9:56 PM

As we've discussed many times on this forum, if you are going to have just one sport bike in your garage to do it all, you can't go wrong with either a 14 or a Busa.

I just pulled the forks off tonight. Taking a break. When I felt that for the second time and how light the front end is with a stock tire, how well it stops, not to mention the smoother engine, unless I get hold of a Busa, tune it up and can tell in 6th gear if not letting the clutch out from a dead stop, I'm not sure you can put that burger runner in the same class.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21235

RE: Master Bike
07/01/10 10:20 PM

Sheesh. Been so long since I rode one, I can't remember any more.

The new busa still sits hoisted upon its stands in my friend's barn. I have taken off some plastics to polish them up as a winter project but now it's summer. Time to roll that baby out and get modding. It's a nice bike. The differences are so slight. One does this while the other is doing that but they end up at the same spot after all is said and done. You get tired of looking at a wide front you get on your busa and when you get tired of a busa hump wedgie you get back ion your 14.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Master Bike
07/01/10 11:52 PM

Just remember...the 14 and busa(sacriledge!)are electronically limited.Take that out...they'll top 188 easy.

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ethin14



Location: Qld Australia

Joined: 03/09/09

Posts: 589

RE: Master Bike
07/02/10 1:48 AM

there is a big price difference between the japs and the bmw, a lot of hype and no ones comparing eggs with eggs.
Add the difference in price to the Jap bike in goodies to go faster and its a lot closer maybe even turns the table.
When bmw make a bike that cost the same money and is faster, then they should expect more respect.

Everybodys in a tail spin because it's faster ?, well it cost 40% more and goes 10% faster.

Not a good enough reason to buy one for me.

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privateer


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Location: [random forest]

Joined: 02/16/09

Posts: 3605

RE: Master Bike
07/02/10 4:11 AM

Right on, ethin14.

Plus it is not like the Japanese cannot respond. Anyone tracking the 2011 ZX10R ?

A real big-bang motor with horizontal cylinders, traction control, etc. Because there is a 120 degree arc in the crank rotation where no cyclinder pair is firing (they fire two at a time, hence it is a true big-bang motor), Kawasaki patented an alternator which is also a motor. The alternator keeps the crank spinning during the 120 degrees when no cylinder pair is pushing it.

This is MotoGP tech plus a few totally new ideas.



Living the Gypsy Life

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13917

RE: Master Bike
07/02/10 8:38 AM

What is a Master Bike to the rags, means something totally different if I think Master. If I match just one master move, is a 1000 quick? Yes. Is a 14 faster? Yes = Master.

Can a 1000 cruise all day with a buzz on? Yes
Can a 14 cruise all day without a buzz on? Yes = Master.

You want me to keep going MASS tear, MASS tear, dock tear, doctor, help me, help me.


* Last updated by: Hub on 7/2/2010 @ 8:39 AM *



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 21235

RE: Master Bike
07/02/10 9:05 AM

A real big-bang motor with horizontal cylinders, traction control, etc. Because there is a 120 degree arc in the crank rotation where no cyclinder pair is firing (they fire two at a time, hence it is a true big-bang motor), Kawasaki patented an alternator which is also a motor. The alternator keeps the crank spinning during the 120 degrees when no cylinder pair is pushing it.

Sounds a lot like the talk about the 09 R-1. Whatever it is, I'm all for it. I'll sit back and watch. Never count on the latest and greatest.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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ethin14



Location: Qld Australia

Joined: 03/09/09

Posts: 589

RE: Master Bike
07/02/10 6:40 PM

Hub thats it, 14 has it all covered, the 1000 has 1 good point that its quick in its class, No contest when your mind is bigger than a twist of the throttle, and you can consider the hole picture.

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