Went for a quick 15 miles tonight. All I can say is wow. If there is such a thing as too much power, this is it. Sooo smooth though. Like a turbine. Its a fighter jet engine with 2 wheels. Fuel cut is a little abrupt at times but I am sure brocks will fix that. Acceleration is insane. Can't wait to ride more!!!!

and i am right behind ya in a few weeks bro!

Congrats! Yeah! I thought it almost had too much power at first, too, which is a cool feeling!

You do get used to it, tho, and some of course start working on making it even more too much faster

Went for a second ride last night. Got just a bit too much slop in my throttle cable (new bike) so once I adjust that everything should be good. Power felt much easier to control this time. First time I rode that little speedo lever was climbing so fast I had to do 3 double takes to try and figure out if it was reading in mph or KPH! It really comes alive above 6k for sure. Havent gone to red line or anything since it's new still trying to take it easy-ish (I'm a motoman fan) but yea 2 rides and I am already looking forward to that Brocks setup!

Go get an ECU flash of your choosing and take it for another ride. It will be a COMPLETELY different bike.

I personally have the Guhl flash, but have been considering sending it in for Romans.

What you haven't felt yet is what happens when the the secondary flies are open at 1500rpm and you smack the throttle :D -- my helmet keeps me from having a smile as large as it could be haha.

Ride safe and enjoy. As soon as I get my new tires on I will be out clicking off miles too.

* Last updated by: omega2k on 3/22/2016 @ 8:15 AM *

+1 to "what happens when the the secondary flies are open at 1500rpm and you smack the throttle :D -- my helmet keeps me from having a smile a large" Suddenly everything around you stops (that is how you feel) and you leap forward soooo fast. You have to make sure to keep your weight forward or your front wheel loses traction. I haven't tried beyond 9000rpm (I can't lose my license)but it is so much fun. Have safe ride!!

I read these threads about the performance increases that flashed ECU's offer at lower engine RPMs and in lower gears and I say to myself "Well and good". But I sure wish someone, anyone, would post a link to a dyno chart that shows the before and after difference offered up by a flash that opens the secondary throttles early and in, say, second gear. I want to believe but the few charts I've seen when the dyno pulls are done in the higher gears I don't see all that much difference. And then, of course, there's the Vic Thing performance test thread that showed little, if any, performance gain in a third gear street pull. So, for those that feel the difference is "Yuge" (to use a Trumpism), please let me see some numbers. I really do wonder about the placebo effect when it comes to this stuff. I -want- to believe.

Please post a dyno run, before and after a flash, done in a lower gear between (for example) two and six thousand RPM that shows the improvement in available engine torque. If the difference is "Yuge", say 20 pound feet, then I'm all over that. But if the number is 5 pound feet, then I'm not so inclined to flash my ECU. After all is said and done, this should be a measurable effect. Thanks.

I personally don't believe in those ECU flash and Commander 3 would make significant differences to ZX14R's performance. I don't believe there is enough ROI. On top of it, ZX has more than sufficient power for day to day street use. The only ting I may do is to remove the secondary valve so that I get a different power feel.

Old Man,
Please let me know what you think about the changes after removing the secondaries as I am considering the same on my 2007. Thanks
Chris

joegdi and OldMan: I googled "zx14 flash dyno chart" and one of the results was this from Ivan; scroll down to the dyno chart: http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/12zx14.htm

Ivan's chart is showing a max power gain of 13.4 HP, and a max torque gain of 7.1 ft-lbs. This was with Full Akrapovic 4-2-1 W/Ivan's ECU flash and PC5 with Ivan's fuel map. All tests done with 92 octane, 10% ethanol premium pump gas and 10w-40 non-synthetic motor oil.

I started to paste in Brock's, but he has so many variations it makes my (alien) head spin.

* Last updated by: extrapolator on 3/18/2016 @ 12:36 PM *

Each to their own on the tuning/flash issue. Not a route I'm that bothered about taking personally, quite happy with the standard setup with OE exhaust etc but then I really couldn't care less about 1/4 mile times but if that's what floats your boat then why not.
A full Akrapovic 4-2-1, a PC5 and a flash/remap sounds expensive for a 13.4 bhp and 7.1lb/ft power gain but the 14 is already in a high state of tune so I guess decent gains will never be cheap.

Darkarcher, all the best with the new ride, I'm sure you're gonna enjoy the 14R big time wether you tune it or not. I felt the same way with the power on the first few rides but you'll get used to it. Ride safe, you're in for a cracking season!

Hi Chris,

http://www.zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=9C55AB8E-1372-66AE-3BB688A848CA0540

It seems it is not a simple procedure. I will have to look into it more before working on it. At least, people including Rook seems to be happy with the outcome.

Extrapolator, thanks for the link to the Ivans dyno chart. I have seen that one and it kinda makes my point that there is some torque gain, but it's not "Yuge" (OK, I'll stop with the Trumpisms :-)). In addition, here's the link to the Schnitz 14R reflash dyno chart (a $75 reflash by the way):

https://store.schnitzracing.com/schnitz-ecu-reflash-kawasaki-zx14-12-15/

As you can see on the Schnitz dyno chart, there is some gain in torque but, like Ivans dyno chart, it's not all that substantial. Now, I realize these dyno pulls are probably done 5th gear (a guess on my part so correct me if I'm wrong here), so maybe if they were done in a lower gear (second or third gear) the stock ECU might be limiting engine output (for safety’s sake) and a flashed ECU would have that limiter removed and thus show a more substantial torque gain. I also realize doing a pull in a lower gear (like second) may result in wheel spin against the dyno's drum thereby making the results useless. What is of interest to me is the two thousand to six thousand RPM range and in that span perhaps the engine isn't producing sufficient power to spin the wheel on the drum, even though it's pulling in second gear. On my otherwise stock 2013 bike, I can sure feel a substantial increase in the rate of acceleration in second gear when the tach reaches five thousand RPM. In the old days, I'd call that sensation "cammieness". It pulls pretty darn hard from two thousand to five thousand RPM it's just that from five thousand RPM to redline the machine pulls substantially harder.

So, I suppose, the question still remains - in lower gears is there more of a torque increase delivered by a flashed ECU than what is shown on the readily available dyno charts from various flash vendors? I ask this because if one reads the write ups from some folks, their seat of the pants dynos would definitely answer that "yes". They would state that the machine pulls much harder in lower gears at lower RPMs. It's just that I have yet to see a dyno chart that shows torque values that support such a conclusion and that darn placebo effect can do funny things. Thoughts?

Joe - Above Ivan's chart he lists all the benefits of his flash ... Note #5:

My 2012-2015 ZX14R ECU programming (Re-Flash) includes the following:

1) Speed limiter removal
2) Raise rev-limit 500 rpm (11,500)
3) Cooling fans come on at 200 degrees
4) Traction control off completely when selected - No more safety mode in the lower gears to limit performance.
5) Lower gears power limiters removed
6) ECU remembers last traction control setting - so you don't have to mess with it every time you start the bike.
7) Re-program sub-throttles for max power at any rpm and throttle position. No TRE needed - all done inside the ECU.
8) Disable fuel cut - Our proprietary software/hardware disables this annoyance in all the places/conditions that it exists !!
Throttle "quality" is flawless in the corners. it makes rediculous power and good mileage as well with no flat areas, no matter what you do with the throttle.

a) Gets rid of poor throttle transitions from closed throttle.
b) Gets rid of annoying popping and banging during decel and also jerky response when re-applying the throttle from closed.
c) Throttle modulation is noticably improved over what can be achieved with a fuel tuner alone.
d) Dramatic improvement upon re-application from closed throttle (in all riding conditions).

Caveat: My ECU has not been flashed, so I can't confirm whether any of this is true, or even if so, if there's a perceptible smoothness improvement or measurable acceleration improvement. It "should", but you know how that goes ... and I have yet to find convincing proof that any of this is true. I would love to find that proof - My ECU would he shipped away immediately for flashing.

The issue isn't that the power is necessarily "increased" with a flash; but what can happen is that without the flash it is possible to trip the bikes ecu safety modes that LIMITS power output in the lower 3 gears.

Brock has a dyno graph and video where he is talking about the Guhl flash and he can trip the secondary throttle plate safety mode in the lower 3 gears where you wont get full power. Thats what people are referring to.

and on my bike it must have been easy to trip it on the street, because I noticed a big difference in roll on power in the midrange in second and 3rd gears.

skip ahead to 6:50 for the important stuff about the safety mode + and its ability to limit power.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YtxspZOitM

ALSO in this vid he shows more about the safety modes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDCs6Pa2p3I

So with the plates in, and no flash you can lose 20-30hp at the rear wheel when the ecu limits power.
I dont know about you, but I want all the hp my bike can give me.

* Last updated by: rod442 on 3/19/2016 @ 2:28 AM *

I have Ivan's flash and love it!!! It's not just about the power but how much smoother and linear it is. Without major engine work you can only gain so much HP, the biggest difference is how that power comes on when you twist the grip. NO ONE has a magic bullet in their flash. Ivan's flash is all about smooth streetable power. A few added bonuses such as having the fans come on sooner and removing some of the restrictions just add to the streetable power that you can use everyday. NO suprizes anywhere!!! Have it, love it!!!

* Last updated by: Rktsled on 3/19/2016 @ 6:17 PM *

Congrats on the new ride.

Rod442 - you found what I was going to post :)

Great minds think alike!

Well, called Lee today and ordered my pipe ( ct single qk) will be here tomorrow since I can throw a rock and hit brocks facility practically! PC and some other goodies on their way as well. Will be ordering the brocks/guhl flash 2 when I get the bike tore down. Really nothing new here but knowing me I will probably need to make a build thread.....

Grats man...
Who knows, maybe we will run into each other sometime. I live around Dayton and work in Cinci LOL

PS, Im closer to Brocks :D

Congrats on your new rocket. I went from a 1984 Honda CB 750 to my 14R and that was like going from a 1971 Volkswagen Beetle to a 2016 Nissan GTR, so I understand your excitement. When I modded my bike, I could definitely feel the difference in the seat of my pants. I used to have a quickshifter on it, but now I've got an on-board air compressor and an air shifter--that's completely eliminated the mis-shifts I was having and I got the Brock's clutch mod kit. I need to update my signature line to reflect the changes I guess. Have fun!

let the mods begin!

Holy Sheet!... you better hurry man, its time to ride! :)

That seat looks really comfy, is it an OEM option?

* Last updated by: pegscraper on 3/29/2016 @ 9:40 AM *