Please sign this petition to study the effects of ethanol on motorcycles IF you agree,

The new E15 gasoline formulation may appear at a nearby fueling station, so motorcyclists need to be careful when fueling their motor vehicles. No motorcycles or ATVs are currently on the approved EPA list for E15 use, and the use of E15 can void manufacturers’ warranties.

U.S. Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) introduced H.R. 21 on Jan. 6.
Sensenbrenner said, “Our constituents use boats, motorcycles, snowmobiles, cars, lawnmowers and tractors. They deserve to definitively know what E15 will do to the engines they rely upon.”

Link Here !!!

I agree!!! E10 and now E15 will many undesired affects on our bikes, #1 will be a reduction in horsepower we have all worked so hard to get. E10 and E15 are not as energy dense as standard gasoline and simply will not make as much power. #2 the alcohol will eat hoses and gaskets which will create a HUGE increase in the risk of getting your nuts roasted when your bike catches fire from all the leaks!!!

Govt. just HAS to get in to and screw up everything!!! Common sense has left the government!!!

In Toronto i think there is only 1 kind of gas station that doesnt have 10% E gas. And thats a maybe.... Cant confirm. Everyone runs it through their bikes... Havent heard of gas eating through lines, causing fires, etc.

When i road down to the gap there was a slight increase in fuel milage (5% maybe) but performance was in and around the same.

* Last updated by: Fazer on 1/8/2015 @ 10:54 AM *

Fazer premium Shell,Esso and Canadian tire the premium grades have no ethanol.US gas is different then ours Hindle exhaust has found when US race bikes come up here he has to remap them ,our gas is not as good as the states

Fazer I've got a compression ,leak down tester if you still need it

Really all those have 0 E? I forget who i was talking to but i think it was petro canada was the only one (the 94). i guess esso has it now because of the 93 they have.

And thanks for the offer darryl, i will def take you up on that. Once it warms up a bit i will do the test.

I've got some moonshine and ghost pepper sauce ,that will heat things up a bit

* Last updated by: darryle on 1/10/2015 @ 5:15 AM *

I agree!!! E10 and now E15 will many undesired affects on our bikes, #1 will be a reduction in horsepower we have all worked so hard to get. E10 and E15 are not as energy dense as standard gasoline and simply will not make as much power. #2 the alcohol will eat hoses and gaskets which will create a HUGE increase in the risk of getting your nuts roasted when your bike catches fire from all the leaks!!!

Govt. just HAS to get in to and screw up everything!!! Common sense has left the government!!!

Rkt if you don't know about it, AG Plus right near Golden Coral has 91 E0 (real gas). It's the only place I've fueled my bike since I found it.

Quite honestly think it's the best gas I've had it in, even though it's a lower octane rating.

according to what I've read, every gas station carrying E15 will also have to carry E10 for vehicles not rated for E15. The problem isn't entirely the Ethanol, it's also the additives. The closer you are to a major city, the worse the gas. My ZX11 ran good on E10 when I lived 150 miles from a city. I moved to within 50 miles, and my carbs had to be cleaned avery other tank of gas from clogged jets.

I will definitely sign the petition. I only use ethanol-free gas in my 14R and my lawn-mower. I'm lucky because I live in southwest Florida and there are plenty of boaters around and thus there is a big market for ethanol-free consumers. Also, the documentation that came with my PCV recommends using 89 octane Shell marine gas (ethanol-free).

Here is a link to pure gas stations: PURE GAS

* Last updated by: skewedTotheLeft on 1/9/2015 @ 3:37 PM *

The reason ethanol is bad is because the alcohol in the fuel will deteriorate fuel lines and gaskets unless they are specifically made for use with ethanol. The auto industry found out the hard way what alcohol will do to fuel systems, many leaks and many fires, that's why you see the E85 badges on the back of many vehicles. When you see an E85 badge the auto maker is certifying the vehicle can tolerate a mixture of up to 15% alcohol without harming the fuel system. Also vehicles certified for E85 can usually self-compensate for the reduced power by adjusting the fuel intake volume and timing.

Personally I don't use ANY E10 or 15 fuel in my Z, PERIOD!!! I only buy gasoline that is certified as being Top Tier gas, there truly is a difference in fuels. You can go to the Top Tier website and get a list of fuels that are certified and the list is pretty long. Where I live in Indiana there are 3 stations I use, Shell, Phillips 66, and BP, these are the only fuels I run in my Yukon as well. My wife has a VW Tiguan turbo, she gets at least 1-2 more MPG when she runs Top Tier fuel.

In my opinion the govt. doesn't need to waste money on more moronic tests to duplicate the testing the auto industry has already done, alcohol will eat fuel lines and gaskets, it's already been proven!!!

When you see an E85 badge the auto maker is certifying the vehicle can tolerate a mixture of up to 15% alcohol without harming the fuel system. Also vehicles certified for E85 can usually self-compensate for the reduced power by adjusting the fuel intake volume and timing.

no, the E85 badge means it can use up to 85% ethanol

toledoUPSguy, Thank you!!! I was in a hurry when I made this post, was thinking about to many other things. You are ABSOLUTELY correct E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, thank you for catching my HUGE mistake, can't believe I did that!!!

Also just for comaprison, E85 only contains 81,000 BTU's of thermal energy versus 114,000 for regular gasoline. You have to burn a lot more E85 (about 22% more) to get the same power as gasoline which equates to less MPG. E85 does have a higher octane rating than gas, about 113 versus 93 for premium fuel. Theoretically you could bump the compression ratio but that isn't possible if you run regular gas, so the manufacturers have to keep compression low for the gas.

Back to whether we can or should run E85 in our bikes, answer is still no, ethanol is a very corrosive liquid and is not good to run in vehicles not specifically designed for it.

Personally I don't use ANY E10 or 15 fuel in my Z, PERIOD!!! I only buy gasoline that is certified as being Top Tier gas, there truly is a difference in fuels. You can go to the Top Tier website and get a list of fuels that are certified and the list is pretty long. Where I live in Indiana there are 3 stations I use, Shell, Phillips 66, and BP, these are the only fuels I run in my Yukon as well. My wife has a VW Tiguan turbo, she gets at least 1-2 more MPG when she runs Top Tier fuel.

Where are you buying this around here? The only E0 fuel I've found is AG Plus I mentioned. All the others, including the Phillips 66 are outdated or inaccurate. I was going to the Phillips 66 off Goshen because it was on a website. None of the pumps were E0.

Not seen any Shells or BP that weren't E10.

Vic, I use the Shell at Parnell and Coliseum, the Phillips 66 on Dupont just off 69, and the BP in New Haven a few blocks down from 469, those three stations are about the only ones I use because I pass them frequently. Primarily I use Shell because I have read the independant testing reports on their fuel and know it burns clean. I absolutely will not use gas that isn't certified by Top Tier. If you use the phone app "Gas Buddy" to check prices it shows which stations are Top Tier.

I can live with 10% but that's the limit which is why I buy better brands of fuel. To be honest I haven't looked closely at the pumps in a long time but haven't had any problems with those fuels.

* Last updated by: Rktsled on 1/9/2015 @ 6:46 PM *

The AG Plus I put my gas in is on the Top Tier list, as the fuels brand name is CountryMark (which is on the Top Tier list). So you can have E0 premium in your bike too!

btw - if you've never been there's no attendant or convenience store, it's fuel only. The good news is it's open 24/7 (as far as I can tell) pay by CC/DC only.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 1/9/2015 @ 11:30 PM *

Thanks Vic, didn't know about that place. I haven't lived in FW very long and I'm still discovering lots of new places. Went to the Cord museum in Auburn recently, that place was AWESOME!!!

If you give it a try let me know what you think. I'll probably start using it in my power equipment too...glad you guys brought that up.

From another site, not my words. Never heard of anyone defending ethanol like this. Interesed in a response

The mechanical problem with ethanol is not the moisture so much as it can destroy plastic/rubber parts in the fuel system. The phase separation can gum things up if the fuel sits unused for extended periods. Carb'd bikes are much more sensitive to this. Most FI bikes can handle it better. If your bike sits during the winter months simply add some stabilizer to the tank, top it off, and you'll be fine. If you have a plastic tank that has deformation issues or the bike will be stored for an extended period then just drain the fuel system.

Sorry but much of what you said is at best partially correct.

1. Ethanol does not destroy automotive plastic/rubber parts. If that were the case, it would have caused massive failures for the past 2 decades. It does cause certain seals and diaphragms in some small engines (lawn mower, weedwackers, etc.) to fail prematurely, but most automotive fuel components made since the advent of E10 are compatible with ethanol.

2. Some folks claim that ethanol - or its derivatives - are what caused the tank deformation in some motorcycle fuel tanks. This is far from a proven fact. Failures have been sporadic and carry no consistent pattern. Some bubble, some don't. I had an '08 RSVR Factory was just fine when I sold it last year. I fed it pump gas and didn't ride it very often, so it pretty much just sat in my garage with - horrors! - E10 in the tank.

3. Phase separation from ethanol absorbing moisture are not the cause of carbs getting gummed up. The main cause is gasoline itself going bad. Gasoline being a multi-fraction fuel, the lighter more-volatile fractions can evaporate off, leaving behind heavier more-viscous fraction that can block tiny passages and make small needles stick.

Older carbed bikes are more susceptible to this because they are more "vented" and exposed to atmosphere. Newer FI bike typically have vapor recovery systems that keep a fairly tight lid on the gasoline vapors, so less interaction with atm air. Still, some folks insist on ripping all that emission-control off so they can vent their tank and smell gasoline in their garage (why I have no idea). Then they wonder why their gas goes back so quickly. But AH HA!!! Frigging ethanol is to blame!!

4. Phase separation is much more an issue with gasoline fuel tanks that are large and in static storage for long periods, such as marine application. That's when you have 80 gallons of fuel, 10% of which - 8 gals - becomes a fairly significant quantity when it does phase-separate just sitting around at the dock surrounded by... you guessed it - moisture.

Most cars/trucks don't have much more than a 15-20 gal tank and are usually driven/refueled often and gets agitated enough that whatever small amount of phase separation does occur gets sucked through the engine and burnt anyway.

Vehicles stored over winter, however, definitely pose a potential problem. Either add stabilizer, or drain the tank are your best bet.

"Much of what you said is at best partially correct"

Ethanol is a very corrosive liquid which will deteriorate most common rubber and gasket materials, this is a fact not a guess or old wives tail. As I said before, the auto industry did extensive testing on this problem, thru collaboration with Goodyear and several others the auto industry came up with new compounds that resist degredation by ethanol BEFORE it became widely used. The reason we don't see massive fuel system failures is due to the auto industry working very hard to stay ahead of what would have been a disaster.
My concern is not knowing if cycle fuel systems are using the ethanol resistant materials, common sense would dictate they are but again, I don't know because they haven't publically addressed the issue.

As far as fuel separation and water absorbation I think this is not really an issue unless your bike were to sit with a partially filled vented tank for a very long time, then you have the age old problem of evaporation leaving residue (varnish or gum) which clogs up the jets and needles.

Tank deformation has happened with bikes way before ethanol was added to fuel, usually happened after riding on a hot day with a clogged vent line and then parking in a cool garage, yes it's rare but I have seen it more than once.
(Charles law of gasses and temperature)

Fuel is different in the USA and Canada. Wonder if ethanol is current practice over here too? I only buy 94 octane and only from Petro Canada.
Next time I pass by I'll ask about ethanol concentration.

In ontario our pumps have a label saying may contain up to 10% ethanol ,91 octane Shell ,Esso and Canadian tire has no ethanol.I don't know if it applies to 94

Hey Darryle
No ethanol shell, canadian tire and Esso?
Thanks!

I rode back to Kansas (45th High School Reunion) and many gas stations were selling "White Gas" no Ethanol.
With so many new vehicles on the road today, the EPA should take out the Ethanol completely. The results would be better MPG's.
But tell your Congress Person to save your motorcycles and older vehicles. I've been told that vehicles older than 2002 will need all their rubber fuel components upgraded. 15-20% Ethanol will kill off old vehicles.
The Government's new "Clunker" program will be 20% Ethanol.

Well there's alot of chatter, but has anybody signed the petition yet? Lol