Is there a heavy duty cam chain, I am changing to a ape manual tensioner and I thought there might be a aftermarket chain I could switch to

Wow, you must really like to work on your bike. Unless your bike has a zillion miles on it, or you're making some serious power. IMO the stock chain should be fine. I put an ape tensioner on mine and everything is all good.

I think I'll wait till my WarrenT runs out before I start effin with the CCT.

Here is the deal not too many know about static tensioners as opposed to automatics.

"Adjust static tensioners every 5 to 6 races."

Now, these are more like 20 minute sprints and the bike is parked till next race. Can you now understand you will be on a constant adjusting interval, being the riding around one does for work or weekend, or weekly cruising have even more hours on the static slop, where you will be finding it is going to be a headache you do not stay on top of the adjustment a lot.

These are hi-vo chains that have rows of links. I think they might take the HP you throw at it. 1bad has some turbo trashing on his chain and it sure is holding up.

Just out of curiosity-you mentioned this before HUB-but....can you tell me HOW do you know when your cam chain is out of adjustment?At five or six races,what would be my indication of a cam chain needing attention?Thanks bro.

Down at the infamous tone wheel cover, you can take either a 17mm wrench to the tone wheel bolt, move the crank backward just touch, watch the slack at the front rung [exhaust side], or move the rear wheel in high gear. Run the bike past 2nd and coast into the garage with maybe 3rd gear? Then you can hand move the shifter and rear wheel to 6th for easy crank movement/inspect.

Once you move and flop or looseness of the rung, it will be either nice and tight or ready to adjust. What you don't want is to run the tensioner hard against the slipper. This will accelerate a groove into the guide.

So, optimum setup is to run the 17mm forward [running direction] enough to take the slop out of the front run [ex side], then adjust the static tensioner up to the slipper until it lightly seats. You then back off the screw less than a 16th of a move backwards.

Meaning, if the screw slot bottoms at 2 0'clock, then move the slot back to 1:30 0'clock. A 1/4 turn back is too much say. Then you go back to the 17mm bolt, turn the engine backwards just a few degrees; check for zero to almost very minimum chain movement. It's more a feel once you get the hang of it.

Now, you can try moving the crank with the stock tensioner. You know this has some oil assist, but still, that stock tensioner is ratchet style as the chain stretches and the slipper grooves. This much feel on the static tensioner [OEM] having the slack at the ex. side, can show you how much free-play to chase with the manual adjuster style tensoiner needs adjusting.

The slipper will make a lot of noise or hum if the tensioner is too tight. The chain will whip and this too will make more of a loose chain noise. Find the middle and you pretty much nailed it.

* Last updated by: Hub on 11/8/2009 @ 8:00 PM *

Okay,so you're saying that the chain itself is going to stretch with riding?The reason I'm asking is because since I installed the APE tensioner-WAY BACK WHEN-I've never had to readjust at any time.I set it to remove the slack in the chain,which it did.And I've never had any cam chain noise since.It's not overtightened-only to the point of stopping the noise-no tighter(done with the engine running).

I have had a peek at another forum--- Kawasakiworld.com---- and all I can say is: shame!! The poor guys are debating whether a cam chain can cause a rattle at start up. One guy says its the clutch etc,etc,etc.
One thing I appreciate about this site is that generally a problem gets sorted reasonably easily, and if no-one has had that specific problem, sense gets spoken and not wild theories.
I also have a manual tensioner and have done +/_ 4500km with no adjustment. HUB, will I hear the chain when it gets loose? Hopefully before it jumps on the gears. Is this possible?

I like automatic cam chain tensioners.....I've had them on many bikes and never once had a prob, my 14's no different

That chain has to be as loose as if you removed the tensioner or pushed the ratchet back into it's home before you can cause a whip of the chain to ride over the gears. Then you would have to bend the chain guide that keeps the whip (grows over the sprocket) so the chain can walk over a tooth. Pg. 5-20 ~ B = Guide.

But, with all the hy-vo chains beginning with the DOHC Honda that began with the 1979 CB750F's for example, you never hear these chains derail off the cams. At least I've never experienced even the old chains being so noisy and sloppy, they could ride up over the cam sprocket. Think rear wheel and chain. A loose chain hardly walks over the sprockets.

Before I was booted off the CB1100F website, I always ran arguments with a certain established individual there. And my argument was to adjust the bike statically with the bike in gear, the load on the crank where the taught side was set by the crank's pull on the cams. This positioned the rear part of the chain at it's slack position... sans a high spot.

I also pointed out how if you load the rear wheel, notice how the tight side of the drive chain was at one end and loose on the other rung. Trying to explain how this was going as well inside the engine, you then, loosened the tensioner bolt, the spring would snap the plunger up against the slipper arm and here is where you re-tighten the tensioner lock bolts/nuts and you are done.

So, one guy posts how he followed the one guy's way with the engine running and then set the static my way. See, if you do not load the crank, the valve springs will tend to roll the cams backwards and that little bit can tighten the chain on the tensioner side.

Where as, my theory is to keep the cams loaded so they do not walk backward. The poster came back, said his bike made all the noise go away with my basic chain adjustment style. I see no difference between that decades old bike and the 14 or any cam chain bike for that matter. I use to laugh when the factory would say to find TDC and move the crank 15 more degrees or something so this would not move the chain backward.

I more or less find the practical theory of the rear chain being tight under load to mimic the same action as the cam chain load to one side so you can adjust the tensioner the same way being automatic or mechanical. If you think about it, no cylinder fires as perfect as the last cylinder. So, this pulse-whip or when the carbs are out of sync, one slide is higher/lower than the other cylinder, and then you have this pulse signal that when you set the tensioner running, you could get the whip tight on on the cam reverse side, set the tensioner and it sounds loose like the CB1100F guy found out the one way ~ That running the bike to set the chain did not quiet the bike down.

So, if you have the manual tensioner, I would recommend setting the chain with the tight side loaded at the rear wheel [so the cams do not roll the chain tight on the slipper side] but loose as possible with the constant load on the crank.

I bet, blue, if you removed the cover, set the bike in gear; pushed the cam chain with a tiny screwdriver down near the sprocket, it might be a little loose by now. The thing is, you hear the bike and are use to the noise. Maybe a trained ear would hear it for the first time and mention a rattle noise being the cam chain may be a little loose at idle.