Rode the rocket to work today and did my usual quick look at the bike when I got off.
Noticed what looked like oil on the tire and a spot on the ground where I had just parked.

Moved the bike to the next spot over and noticed a new drop of oil in about a minute.
Got down and looked underneath the bike and noticed oil coming from around the oil filter.

At this point, I wasn't sure which was better; the fact that I had ridden the bike at a relatively high rate of speed with oil dripping on the rear tire or that oil was leaking from the filter and the engine was low on oil.

Decided not to try to ride it home (18 miles one way) because I couldn't decide which would be worse, an oil covered rear tire, which could quickly turn into a nasty slip and slide; or a seized engine due to low to no oil. Decided to get a ride home and picked up the truck and trailer. Sounds like a Harley story at this point.

SWMBO decided that I had other things to do this evening, so I didn't get a chance to pull the filter to see what the deal is. BTW, the filter has been on the bike for 1000 miles.

Any one had a similiar experience? Will status ya'll when I get the filter off.

* Last updated by: rattlesnake on 4/24/2012 @ 11:02 PM *

I should think you would be more curious. I would pull the filter, was it tight? Does it have a hole or crack in it? Count the number of rubber gaskets between the filter and the base of the pan. If there are two that might be the problem. Could have done that at work.

So far, my weak grip says, I'm not about to tear out the threads, but I am going to wind up the filter as tight but not gorilla tight. So far, this was with a semi filled filter. If I tilt it, it will pour out when I initially install it.

Getting the filter off takes an oil filter tool. Why? Because that rubber has memory. You squeeze it, it squeezes back. It also rippled in your twist on direction. It's like a stuck arrow, you are about to pull it out. This is when you either wait for a new filter, because...

... The filter tool will collapse the cartridge body. Right there, you need a new filter before you being to probe this filter leak. Your next move is to hand twist it off first. If it leaks, it may be loose enough. Then again, that filter tool may not collapse the outer casing if loose.

Say you do not have a large enough jaw tool like a pipe wrench; would work in a pinch. Yeah, if you dropped the exhaust maybe. Say a hammer and a punch is next. Again, you now waste the filter for sure. Before you begin, see how much oil was lost, you sit the bike upright.

If there is no oil showing in the window, she may be close to a quart low. That smart move engine wise, was to truck it home. Under pressure, it sure did lose a lot, I would assume? Once the filter is off, run your finger over the case's surface. If the surface is smooth, no nicks where the o-ring sits, call it a loose fit. Gotta lube that ring when new. So when pouring in for the pre-start, you priming the filter first, take a finger, wipe the new o-ring with oil.

Just out of curiosity, what brand of filter did you have on your bike?

I wouldn't worry about engine damage. If there was enough oil to drip out at shut down, I doubt you did any engine damage. If you went a thousand miles and it was dripping so much that you saw two drips within a few minutes at 0 oil pressure, I would guess it just started recently, perhaps that last trip? No oil stain at home either? You got lucky. Shows it pays to check your oil before every start. I know I don't but maybe now I will.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/25/2012 @ 9:14 AM *

Wipe it down...up around the sealing area....start your bike(after filling her with oil to the proper level)....let er warm up good.Stop bike(OR...look as she's idling).If she's dripping from somewhere other than that filter...you'll see it under there...with a flashlight natch.Sounds very simple.Course,having a filter somehow 'loosen' at a 1000 miles DOES NOT SOUND likely.Stranger things have happened though.Check up along the motor front there...behind the header pipes...any oil spray on there?Wipe er down...take er for a ride...then check there again.See if anything is coming out ON THE MOTOR surfaces.Sometimes..if you change the filter(which you didn't)some oil from the filter removal thing can get backwashed onto the housing on the motor...you install your filter...ride yer bike...then come home and see oil 'dripping' from the filter seal.It's not...it's just flowing down from that 'backwash' thing.I always clean the front there and around the seal and stuff just to be sure there's no residual oil on the motor filter housing area.Along with the oil pan underneath...all the way back and up the rear side of it.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/25/2012 @ 12:48 PM *

Fowvay,

I was running my least favorite filter brand, Fram. Stopped by the dealer on the way home. The shop did a visual inspection and determinded that the leak was coming from the filter.

I bought a shorty K & N there and will be installing it when I return home tomorrow night.

21744,

I am super curious about what caused the leak. It could be many things, a crack in the filter caused by a rock or the wrench I used to put it on. Or maybe the old "double gasket" issue. What is really strange is that I have put a 1000 miles on that filter and it just started leaking. I have been installing filters on vehicles for many years and I have never had this to happen. I have had them to leak immediately after putting them on because they weren't tight enough, but never weeks later.

I will let you all know what I find out.

One hundred years ago (slight exaggeration) I did a short internship with Freudenberg-NOK at their gasket and seals factory in LaGrange, Georgia. This facility produced sealing materials for the automotive industry with emphasis on automatic transmission applications for the three domestic manufacturers.

The base gasket of the lower quality oil filters is manufactured with a blend of rubber and chemical additives. These are known as buna rubber (nitrile) and are chosen for their excellent resistence to heat, fuel, and oil. The one major drawback to buna gaskets is their lack of resistence to plain old sunlight. The number one cause of failures noted in our research facility was the use of old, out-of-date product that had not been stored properly.

I mention this because sometimes the consumer will make a purchase and have a failure through no obvious fault. The sealing gasket could have been old or very possibly it could have been blended incorrectly and had a small area that fell out of range for the correct duro (hardness) called for in this particular application.

What is not common knowledge about many gaskets is that they're manufactured and sold prior to being fully cured. They will be produced to a pre-cured duro (55 on a durometer) and will cure to a final hardness after a few heat cycles (final result of 65 on a durometer). This is precisely why many oil filters are so hard to remove once they've been in use. It seems the installer was a 900 lb gorilla when in reality it was simply the post-application curing cycle that caused the excellent sealing surface and the extreme difficulty of removal.

Always check the ductile nature of a gasket before you install the component. If it's hard and brittle don't use it. Also, always follow the installation instructions. It's never a good idea to remove a filter and reinstall it. This applies to air filters also. If you open the housing to look inside, drop a new filter in there.

Good Luck with your machine!

Fo, I'm going to have to disagree on the removal of said sealing theory. You are crushing that 'excessive' rubber gap. If you are old enough to remember removing a filter housing off a CB750 honda type cartridge, the filter bolt's head would sheer off, you bark down that nut. That o-ring resistance was the killer of that soft head hex.

The oil caps on your bike now. If you bark that down by hand, real tight, is it not a bitch to get off? Do you find you are taking an adjustable to the oil cap? There is no heat treating, meaning. That is just your basic static and rubber being a grip kind of material, you will wind up with that o-ring a little up in its groove? That surface tension is all about that rubber being raised above the surface some.

Make sense on my disagreement on said duro curing for sealing?

Hub, I presently own a 1979 Honda CBX with the cartridge filter that you speak of. If you measure the stiction surface of the bolt you get a fractional dimension in relation to the seal used on a full-flow spin-on filter.

The reason the bolt head sheared was due to inadequate design. The early bolts used a 12mm hexagonal head that turned a hollow and drilled 14mm bolt. The o-ring on the housing was a static design which did not move during installation. The two seals on the cartridge filter also were static and the filter turned with the bolt as it was threaded inward.

The only stiction surface was the small o-ring that mounted on the oil filter bolt and spun inside the housing as the bolt was turned.

Keep in mind that the torque specification on that bolt was also 20-24 ft-lbs which is nearly double what is applied to a ZX-14R spin-on filter (13ft-lb).

Surface area alone won't account for the excessive force required to remove a factory installed filter. Do you ever wonder why they state to wet the o-ring with oil and not grease? It's not about lubricating the mating surfaces. The clay and lithium soap used as a thickener in the grease will affect the seal.

They changed to a 17mm head via the aftermarket. That 12mm bolt head never changed, I believe? Never was a design flaw, IMO. Honda never revised it. What you are saying is that seal X will not seal if Y was applied? I would think both stick. Both seal. However, the o-ring is an interference fit as is the quad seal in the brake calipers.

Are there 3 sealing variables with this o-ring part?:

1. Flat sealing a surface without movement is a seal with memory pushing [against] is the direction.
2. O-ring has a circle in direction is that 12mm head turning that tiny o-ring [in a circle] is the direction.
3. Quad ring is stationary. However, the piston in moving in a [push] direction.

Are we in some sort of stiction of sticking with some sort of wedge between dry and wet? I never changed my 12mm hex bolt on my CB750. Once I felt the rubber squeeze against the cartridge, I stopped turning. Never had a leak. Always took a box end wrench to it.

Show me the engineering flaw? I'll show you joe-A gorilla claws clamping. Keep in mind, you can wrinkle the spin on, not that metal cage of the Honda's. Keep in mind also, how low in torque that o-ring is still placed in. See the lower torque spec? That means, I was hand tight at that lower torque. I understood the crush/memory/pushes back is that stiction theory.

One becomes a master at the angle of the dangle of the sheered head bolt. The removal is a flat punch head. Grind the edge you can shave with it. Part of that blade is at the edge of the bolt's outer body are. Part of the other side of the blade, hits the bolt head or what is left of it? A 45° whack is the attack. Out she comes. Never lost removing one. Pretty easy actually.

Same action on the spin on. Flat drift at the curl of the cage. Have a pan ready, because you'll punch a hole thru the body. That curled part [to close the spin on filter], is so close to the engine case, you want to stay away from that area. Still, you want the blade's edge to land on that steel ring. That knife edge is to set a dent into that folded over edge.

Think of that outer edge bite as your leverage. Think of that outer edge of the bolt area too. That is the bite; the 45° pitch of the handle; the thwack like dead aim; or kiss the case or steel fins on the Honda cage goodbye. Doubt you'll hurt either the case or cage. It will just look sloppy like you were beating on it with something sharp.

My point is simply that the broken bolts and the difficulty involved in removal of the housing is not caused by the o-ring. That's all.

Your quote from the previous comment lead me to believe you were placing blame on the o-ring:

Quote: "That o-ring resistance was the killer of that soft head hex."

How about that oil filler cap on the top of the clutch cover? Is that thread induced or o-ring induced? Remember, what I am saying is that I can snap my fingers at that clutch cover cap, she will not loosen up.

Finally got around to pulling off the old filter.

Did NOT find a double gasket.
Did NOT find a cracked filter housing.
Did find the gasket to be flattened more in one area than the rest of the gasket.
My conclusion is that the gasket failed. Maybe I overtightned it, but I doubt it.

Went ahead a did a complete oil change since I wasn't sure how much oil was missing. When I took the filter off, the oil level was at the top line with the bike on a rear wheel stand, so didn't lose much.

No more Fram's for me.

Only OEM oil and air filter for me.