My bike only has about 4k miles on it,
so I assume this is normal DT Lash;
With engine off in 1st gear, I marked
the ground at the front of the side-stand-foot
when bike is as far forward as I can
push it still in gear,
and measured the distance the
bike can travel between that point
and full backward,
the distance is about 3'' total.
Is this fine, and typical of our
ZX14R's?

Sounds normal to me.

...sounds normal but I never measured it.

Lol, another reply that got past my notifications.
My Gold Wing has a lot of drive train lash too, so
I've finally decided that it may be necessary in the
engineering design to have quite a bit of lash,
especially for clutchless shifts to work, otherwise
we'd need to rev-match much better, maybe more
than most of us (me) would be capable of. :shrugs:
---------
I'm still searching for a solution to starting in 2nd gear,
and also lowering the speed of my first gear for tight
lock to lock turns/drills in parking lots.
I ran across some 15 year old threads of yours , and
wonder how all that switching worked out for you
and maybe 16t 43t might work in for what I'm looking for.
I don't mind wearing out an alum 43 'early' I just
want to see how these combos might work for me, then
if I find 16/43 is perfect for me, I'll go with steel 43t.
Would this combo possibly work out for me, for
what I'm trying to achieve, will I need to change
the chain length? Will my rear axle move farther back
or farther forward for my '13 ZX14R, also considering
I have lowered it from stock by about 1.25''.
EDIT; I'm not looking for the highest top end, though
I'll likely go with the ECU Flash in the fairly near
future.
Also, there is a youtube channel that swears that
non-stock sprocket changes really mess up the ecu,
and make the 14R run rough, is there any truth to that?

* Last updated by: Stratovarious on 11/2/2025 @ 4:59 PM *

if I find 16/43 is perfect for me, I'll go with steel 43t.
Would this combo possibly work out for me, for
what I'm trying to achieve, will I need to change
the chain length? Will my rear axle move farther back
or farther forward for my '13 ZX14R, also considering
I have lowered it from stock by about 1.25''.

Too many variables to make any definite predictions. You'll have to try whatever setup you go with and be prepared to put a new chain of the proper length on. Your lowering links must have positioned your axle back a bit. Larger rear sprockets will move it forward. I'm pretty sure 17/45 required an extra link on my Gen1 and the axle was almost as far forward as it could go in the slots. A smaller front sprocket will help with the gearing you're looking for but I do not think it will effect chain length as much as the rear since it's just one tooth difference from stock.

Also, there is a youtube channel that swears that
non-stock sprocket changes really mess up the ecu,
and make the 14R run rough, is there any truth to that?

Yes, so I've been told. I believe it's related to the speed sensor or TC. There's a recent thread where the problem was solved and I think it was going with a 45T rear. If I recall, the poor running of the engine improved with each increase in tooth count on the rear sprocket until the guy found the exact one restored it to normal. It was some certain tooth number. It might vary according to what year the Gen2 is. Some years may not even have the problem. You could do whatever you wanted with sprocket gearing on the Gen1 but apparently, the Gen2 has a few more electronics that don't mix well with most sprocket gearing setups other than stock.

Thanks,
I'm not getting notifications........again....
--
It might be the same youtuber I watched, I think he mentioned
that -1 in front and +1 in back seems to be fine.
I think I'll want to try -1 up front first, and see
if I have issues, and I'm guessing that I'll want
to go + 1 or 43 in the back , and further guessing
that I'll have enough room to push the back wheel
further back, or like you say, may not need to add
more link/s.

2013 Does anyone know the size of the
front sprocket sockets that I'll need,
should be two sockets involved.
I've searched and searched and find no tutorials
that are complete on this issue, they skip way
too much detail. My factory manual is of zero
help from what I've been able to find.
Maybe someone has had better luck.

I have a tutorial for the Gen1 but the nut may be different than the Gen2. ...and who knows what else.

Just had a peek at my 2012 ZX-14R SM and the engine sprocket removal looks identical to the Gen1. Might look like two nuts but it is just one. If I recall, the nut has two sets of hex flats on it and it has the square set of flats that were used to give speed sensor input on the Gen1. I do not think the Gen2's speed sensor reads off of these flats but the nut appears to be the same on the Gen2.

I would consult your Gen2 SM for proper torque specs, they could be different than I have listed in my Gen1 tutorial.

Hope this helps.

https://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=EB2E6BDC-D56B-84E2-1D17B62DAE7BB066

Also, the Gen2 sprocket cover removal and clutch slave removal may be different from the Gen1 and I only have tutorials on the Gen1 at this point.

Is the 27mm socket for the squarish' looking piece of the
nut?
I probably won't need a 34mm socket for
the larger part of the 'same' nut?
The 35mm socket would be needed only
for someone that prefers to remove or tighten
that two-tiered nut with 34mm?
The first thing to do is smash down that 'unfamiliar to me'
design of some kind of 'keeper' washer that bends around
the 34mm part of the nut?
I've watched tutorials on this, found none that
are clearly laid out all the way.

Is the 27mm socket for the squarish' looking piece of the
nut?

IDK what millimeter the square part of the nut is. You probably wouldn't want to wrench on that on a Gen1 as it's only there to provide reference to the Gen1 speed sensor. I guess you could wrench it on a Gen2, IDK.

The 27 mm hex is the one behind the square...the one I wrote "27mm" on.

I probably won't need a 34mm socket for
the larger part of the 'same' nut?

No, probably not. I guess you could try to use those flats with an adjustable wrench in conjunction with the 27mm you're supposed to use if you you really need to. I always just used a 27mm socket on the 27mm hex and I used a long breaker bar because it's real tight.

The 35mm socket would be needed only
for someone that prefers to remove or tighten
that two-tiered nut with 34mm?

IDK what your asking. IDK what mm that largest hex is. Never used it. I used the 27mm. The largest flats are for folding the retainer ring against. You could use those flats (I guess) if you needed to. The 27mm are the flats designed to use a socket on.

The first thing to do is smash down that 'unfamiliar to me'
design of some kind of 'keeper' washer that bends around
the 34mm part of the nut?

Yeah, the sprocket nut's not going anywhere unless you flatten that keeper washer out so the nut can turn.

I've watched tutorials on this, found none that
are clearly laid out all the way.

I didn't watch any tutorials. I read the service manual and asked questions of forum members who were (in those days) a lot more numerous than we have now. But basically, I figured it out with some focus. There are a huge amount of people can't figure it out.

There is no shame in being a rider and leaving the wrenching to pros. Hell, I take 10x longer than any pro to do the work I've done. That's why I haven't fucked up. I love to take a lot of time and construct every possible outcome because I'm basically an amateur. I had some mechanical education as a boy. It made an impression. I wish it could have been more but what it was was good. This is where you're at. Isn't that marvelous? I don't know your age but diving into something new is a wonderful, super healthy experience especially after you have matured. It brings you back to the energy of youth. I think you should learn the basic maintenance procedures very well. I'm here for you all the time but really, I think you're going beyond your abilities at this point. You're going to damage the bike and you might hurt yourself riding it so just slow down and please stick with us.

I'm 70 years old, I don't do well with ambiguity,
all the videos for the front sprocket are half ass'd,
ambiguous and or incomplete videos,
I'm a stickler for analysis and clarity,
I found none of that in the videos that
I've watched on the front sprocket.
In most of them they're waving a camera around
and talking about a 27mm and a 34, and or 35 mm nut,
so....all I've seen in them
are that square thingy which I assumed was the 27,
and the 34/35mm was the bigger one,
so really it's a ''who's of first'' cluggy
trying to get clarity on some of these issues,
and once again, the Svc Manual was not of any help
at all.
You cleared up the fact that what I likely need is
a 27mm socket period, so that is appreciated, I wish
the videos had simply said that, those are
the mechanics you should be schooling on
what they should or shouldn't be working on,
they are the ones 'winging' it, and hoping
it works out.
--
My understanding now is that I need to
smash the keeper down, (no one was at all clear
about that), and use a 27 mm socket with breaker bar,
lock the wheel, be mindful not to throw the bike
onto the ground accidentally while loosening it,
much appreciated info.
---
Leaky tire, :shrugs;, how would I notice the rim
leaking by walking the bike over a puddle, when
backing the bike out of the shed to the sun?
Perhaps, I could have been clearer by mentioning
that the leak was in the middle of the 'tread'
nowhere near the rim.
My tire had been leaking a couple lbs a week,
since I got it, I believe that is due to
some oxidation areas on the inside of the rim
as well as voluminous areas of rubber, stuck
all around the rim on both sides where the bead
is supposed to be sealing.
I cleaned the rim all around and scrapped/sanded
the 'raised' oxidation areas smooth.
I've been wrenching on the simple things with
my street and dirt bikes since 2000, including
clutches, starters, top ends, carbs, etc.
I've never had a true sport bike,
and while many things are the same as with my other
bikes, this is the first bike I've had
that uses paddock stands for example, as well as lots
of other items on this bike that are quite
foreign to me.
---
I've done dirt bike tires, but not street bike tires,
I'm guessing that if I scratched the seating areas
or any other areas on my rims they are inconsequential
compared to the 'damage' found when seeing them
with the 12 year old tire removed, time will tell
though, we'll see if I wind up eating my own words.
As for the rim protectors, lol, they do nothing to
protect the inside seating surface of the rim,
and as mentioned, without the benefit of a tire machine,
there is no telling all the angles that one might
use in an attempt to get the tire off and on, it's
an art, and what works well for one guy isn't
going to work well for the next,
the protectors just kept falling off.
Those bead protectors will be good at protecting the very
tip of the rim, good, but there is a lot more
to the seating area than the tip, and the
quite wide $60, spoons spread the load out
pretty well.
---
Getting the tire off on the rim for me was so much easier
than getting the wheel back onto the axle, that is
where most of the time went.

Perhaps, I could have been clearer by mentioning
that the leak was in the middle of the 'tread'
nowhere near the rim.

Those bead protectors will be good at protecting the very
tip of the rim, good, but there is a lot more
to the seating area than the tip, and the
quite wide $60, spoons spread the load out
pretty well.

Use the kind of rim protectors i show in my tutorial. I bought some of those motion Pro rim protectors that have the large outer shield. They're for shit. Use the kind I show in my tutorial. I think Motion Pro makes that kind too. Those are still not easy to use. I've had them slip. I've had them try to wrap over the rim. Best to use new ones, old ones get stretched and want to roll over the rim.

Getting the tire off on the rim for me was so much easier
than getting the wheel back onto the axle, that is
where most of the time went.

Getting and axle through the wheel hub takes me ten minutes, tops. It's gentle feeling for the right moment. there must be spacers and things inside the hub that droop under gravity. Tire removal and installation with tire irons require brute force and precision at the same time.

I just turned 59 last week. I hope I can still do tires ten yers from now. I think if there is a reason to do so, I will be able to do it.

Cool.
The tire that was on the bike is the one leaking, around
the rim and then yesterday leaking from the center of the
the tread, could have just picked up a nail or piece of something,
the timing was perfect though, cause fedex had my new tire
arriving an hour or so later.
--
Knowing the correct sequence, and how much of what
makes me an absolute genius once I've done it on
a 'given' bike, and a total moron the first time,
no matter how many videos, articles, manuals etc,
that I've seen.
For a tiny example; there is no one in the world that
is going to tell us;
''Hey dude, one side of the bearing keepers is going
to fall out if you don't have two sets of eyes, and
have never done this, and then you get to start over.''
The one thing that did help me though is remembering
to loosen the right side pinch bolts , not the left
side.
--
Just got off the bike now, took it to another familiar
road, and such a marked improvement.
Now if I could just tighten up the nut that sits
right behind the head bearings, I'd be doing ok.

Cool.
The tire that was on the bike is the one leaking, around
the rim and then yesterday leaking from the center of the
the tread, could have just picked up a nail or piece of something,
the timing was perfect though, cause fedex had my new tire
arriving an hour or so later.

You have a good life and i am happy for you. My parents are elderly and have a good life albeit an elderly life. I'm happy they have the life they have too. I'm a little bit less old than you and I'm pretty sure I won't have such a good life as a guy older than I already am. To be blunt, I think being elderly is going to suck for me and that's why I better not get old any quicker than I physically can prevent and not have accidents that F my ass up like my dad who was quite able bodied before his auto crash he should never have been in because he was not able minded enough to drive. God if you're out there, please give me the wisdom to know when I'm too old to do risky shit and just sit my ass down and look at my bikes. God might be there because I already had a wakeup call. You do dangerous things often enough the law of averages catches up. Push it hard enough, you'll meet your end and it won't be natural.. A natural end sucks pretty much too but it has a good chance of being dignified and most definitely is delayed as long as possible. I really like being alive.

I hope it's just the tire having a puncture. If its the wheel, that's easy to fix. ....and you'll have a spare tire waiting.

Knowing the correct sequence, and how much of what
makes me an absolute genius once I've done it on
a 'given' bike, and a total moron the first time,
no matter how many videos, articles, manuals etc,
that I've seen.
For a tiny example; there is no one in the world that
is going to tell us;
''Hey dude, one side of the bearing keepers is going
to fall out if you don't have two sets of eyes, and
have never done this, and then you get to start over.''
The one thing that did help me though is remembering
to loosen the right side pinch bolts , not the left
side.

""genious" yeah you certainly know a lot more after you've done it. A thousand times more than you did before you did it.

As for the pinch bolts, it depends on what side you have the axle nut. You loosen the side you need to turn the axle nut on. The other side holds the axle so you can can turn the nut, right? So there you see, once you do it, you're a genious! You really are because lots of people don't have a clue what any of this even means.

Just got off the bike now, took it to another familiar
road, and such a marked improvement.
Now if I could just tighten up the nut that sits
right behind the head bearings, I'd be doing ok.

There's one I'm not a genius at. I never touched it. I checked steering play but never had to touch a thing. I did lots of wheelies, usually pretty small ones. Without being a genius, I'd say you should replace rather than tighten. You be the genius on that one.

So true,
but ''the nut behind the steering bearing'' is me!

I borrow that phrase from an Ole' friend who used to say;
''you just need to tighten up the nut behind the steering wheel''
Meaning, the driver aka rider in this case, and all of us that
get on our bikes out on the street, are risk takers, much more
so on average than the cagers.
--
'Elderly' imv, is most appropriately applied or attached to
those in 'marked' decline, there is a lot of truth
in the phrase; ''age is just a number''
---
What is the best air/psi gauge that you've found that
reads and locks in the reading?
I have some standard style gauges where the stem that
shoots out, stays once it's out, I like that compared to
the ones that don't stay out when you take it off the
stem, they retract immediately due to a strong return spring,
so it makes reading them difficult if the stem is
in an awkward to reach area and you can't get both sets
of fingers on it.
Either way, for all of my motorcycle tires, it seems that
each time I take a reading there is less air than
the reading I took a few seconds before the last,
almost always seems read lower, like significant air
is lost with each reading.

'Elderly' imv, is most appropriately applied or attached to
those in 'marked' decline, there is a lot of truth
in the phrase; ''age is just a number''

Absolutely but try to explain that to attractive young women.

What is the best air/psi gauge that you've found that
reads and locks in the reading?

Either way, for all of my motorcycle tires, it seems that
each time I take a reading there is less air than
the reading I took a few seconds before the last,
almost always seems read lower, like significant air
is lost with each reading.

Not my experience with any tire gauge. Is the air pressure actually getting lower? You have a tire leak.

Women? Yeah my taste in women is pretty sophisticated,
sadly though, I'm not.

Air leak;
all bike tires I've ever had,
give this same experience, each time I put a
gauge to them, the pressure is a little less,
we're talking lots of tires not isolated
to any particular one, good tires and good rims.
I don't find this with Car/truck tires,
perhaps, in part to the much larger cu ft
of air in them.
---
I have a couple of 'Slime' pressure gauges, with
no springs, I love those, but they're all plastic
and the round centering cones break easily plus
I have no idea if I can actually trust them.
--
One good thing about Slime's $20.00 air compressor
is that the locking device locks backward compared
with the old school chucks, makes it much easier
for me to get the chuck onto valve stems without
bending them as much,
waht sucks though is the short air-line included
with the units, it's like 8 or 10'' + -
where all others I've had,
came with about 18 to 24'' lines.

So true,
but ''the nut behind the steering bearing'' is me!

LOL I missed that twice! Even after you explained it.

Women? Yeah my taste in women is pretty sophisticated,
sadly though, I'm not.

Another

Air leak;
all bike tires I've ever had,
give this same experience, each time I put a
gauge to them, the pressure is a little less,
we're talking lots of tires not isolated
to any particular one, good tires and good rims.
I don't find this with Car/truck tires,
perhaps, in part to the much larger cu ft
of air in them.

I see what you're talking about now. I've had the same experience. At least one of my car/truck tires will probably start to leak after 5 to 7 years, roughly 50,000 miles (yep, my tires last that long on four wheel vehicles). It's from oxidation or rust that develops on the bead...something like that. I just had my truck tires changed. They cleaned the beads on my alloy rims nicely and I never have to add air anymore. Bikes on the other hand, the tire pressure often gets low. They'll probably need air once a month. I've used low tire pressure for sport riding and then filled the tires up real hard for ordinary riding so often, it hasn't really mattered if the tire had a slow leak.

Speaking of that, I like to over-inflate my tires a bit if I'm taking a long trip. I've heard this can increase wear over using the suggested psi but I believe a good hard tire wears less. Low tire pressure definitely increases wear.

I have a couple of 'Slime' pressure gauges, with
no springs, I love those, but they're all plastic
and the round centering cones break easily plus
I have no idea if I can actually trust them.

Test them against a gauge you trust. I'd trust the gauge on your new compressor. You can figure out a way to fill a tire until its psi matches that of the compressor's tank. The air will stop flowing from the tank if you air up a tire to 50 psi and the tank has 50 psi too. Put your pressure gauges on the tire valve. They will probably all read 50 psi. I have a steel pen-like air pressure gauge and a cheap plastic one. Also have used a digital one and one on my air chuck with the needle gauge. They all give the same readings. IDT reading psi is a very complicated matter. All the air pressure gauges I have ever used in my life seem to agree with one another.

One good thing about Slime's $20.00 air compressor
is that the locking device locks backward compared
with the old school chucks, makes it much easier
for me to get the chuck onto valve stems without
bending them as much,

I rarely use a locking chuck. My chuck with needle gauge has a locking chuck and that's about the only time one touches my vale stems. It might be my OCD but I feel like those things are gouging the threads on the tire valve stem. I just hold the chuck in place. I'd use the lock for bead seating if I had to use really high pressure. Once had a problem seating beads on my tire. Knuckled under and brought the wheel to a tire shop. He had to use 90 psi to get the beads to pop in. The tire was somehow cocked on the rim. He charged me twenty bucks. No big deal. I enjoy watching pros work.

I had a yellow plastic compressor for a while. It looked like a little yellow submarine. I got it at Harbor Freight, I believe. Actually might have been under twenty bucks. I only used it to add air to motorcycle tires. It got so hot after running a couple minutes, you could barely touch it. It worked about seven times. No idea what happened but I believe it was heat related. Good safety accessory to carry in a car as long as you replace it if you ever use it. Not a good choice for a home use air compressor. You got that covered now though.

I had a 1998 or 99 Camry, all tires leaked,
around the rims, apparently from 25 years of
oxidation build up due to weather/rain exposure.
The rubber on my 14r rim was really on there,
and the few raised spots of oxidation, it was
bad but not all over , just a few spots.
---
It's usually pretty awkward for me to get a
chuck into position, I'm sure that feeds
some of my unmatched readings, I really don't
have a gauge that I trust right now.
--
The new compressor didn't get delivered,
I have to reorder it.
Oddy enough, that $20 slime compressor made
it happen at the 50psi that I mentioned,
I would imagine the 90F + air temp helped
a bit.
---
I've read some people talking about using
up to 90lbs psi to get the full seat', I'd rather
let it sit for a couple of hours, warm, and
greased, than take a 90psi chance.
I'm guessing that most tires will
eventually seat in time, or maybe mounting
on the bike/car and idling around the yard a bit.
---
I've done what you mention about not clamping
the chuck when airing, up , I've done that
when I had trouble with a chuck, but I think
you're right, that's probably the better way
to air up for a bike tire, a car/truck though
takes a lot longer if quite low.

Oddy enough, that $20 slime compressor made
it happen at the 50psi that I mentioned,
I would imagine the 90F + air temp helped
a bit.

LOL if this a tiny air compressor without a tank, you got lucky this time. Normally with an unseated bead, the air just escapes between the tire and the rim. It normally requires instant inflation to overcome the air air that escapes. I had an uncle that inflated my newly installed tire via explosion. He squirted some lighter fluid in the tire and tossed a lit match in it. WOOF! the beads were set. That was my old Yammi DT-100. I think I should buy one of those bikes again. They're out there. I think that might be the most exciting bike I could own. Probably the one I'd ride longest into my elderly years. Most practical for commuting and errands, too.

It would be hilarious to make a DT-100 that was super fast. I'm sure you'd get a jump on most any car you'd come across at a stoplight. It only went up to 55 mph though. I rode a 70 cc off road race bike once and my legs were shaking when I got off it. My uncle told me to get on it and open the throttle all the way. I made it through 4th gear and I was almost crapping myself. That was out in the yard in front of the cement plant my family ran back in the 80s. I was about 16.

That bike must have been a lot of fun.
I think my first dirt bike had something like
11hp or maybe 17 hp at the most, yet I was
able to find a way to wind up with
way too many scars and a broken finger
to count. So much happens at once when
new on a bike.
--
Speaking of injuries, TC may have saved me
a couple of days ago, the TC default is 1
so I don't turn it off ea time I get
on the bike, I just leave it on 1.
---
I was coming out of a turn in an intersection,
a bit too 'spirited' and the rear wheel
kicked out a bit, I hate to think what
that would have been like with zero TC.

I usually forget to turn the TC off. That might have been what Kawasaki planned to save us.

I had the rear wheel slip on me riding my busa into a hard corner once. It was scary when it grabbed traction. I learned how a highside happens. fortunately, I wasn't going fast enough for it to happen.

Not a bad plan right (?), I think
I'll just leave it be.
I've almost high sided 3 or 4 times on
the Electra Glide, my own ineptness,
or lack of experience at the time.
I plan to remember what almost happened
to me a couple days ago.
---
A lot of guys high-side by slamming on the
back brake ;smi, I don't do that any more,
I'm all front brake or both, in any kind
of a quick stop these days.