No, moving to center then back to right (flashing mode) resets the ECU so it is ready to accept another read/write operation. It does not clear what you have saved or change what has already been written to the ECU it just prepares the ECU for the next operation.

Understood. So all we are saying is, here is a safety mode is in the middle. I can stay in write ECU then, never go out of right toggle, just save a map, click 'new' and write another map using the base settings again. That's what will pop up, I hit 'new.' How close am I now with this toggling?

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you are close, but dont complicate it :)

Moving to the centre position disconects the interface from the ECU, and moving it back into flash mode (right position) connects it again effectively resetting the ECU. You need to do this after each read/write operation to reset the ECU so it is in a state ready to accept the next operation.

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It's that reversengineering in me. Blame Ivan... LOL... So this scenario goes something like this:

Center switch: More like a safety. Look around, click all you want. I clicked on it when in center mode. It did nothing. Without being in right click, you are just looking around in center mode.

Right switch: In this mode, you can writer/save/burn. You are here and will make map after map and just save as you go. I do not need to leave right toggle once I saved my first map. I am going to make 10 maps now all in right toggle mode. I am not going to burn any, I created many map modes to try. I am going to call it a night, put my 10 saved maps in the center toggle. Why? So the next move is for the ECU to accept one of 10 saved maps 'is one operation.'

Next morning, I am going to burn the first flash in right toggle is pull my first map. Or??? Where did they go?

No, moving to center then back to right (flashing mode) resets the ECU so it is ready to accept another read/write operation

Wait a minute. If you are saying this, I made 10 maps and never moved out of right toggle. Because you said,

It does not clear what you have saved or change what has already been written to the ECU

Understood. We are not talking about what is written in the ECU.

What I'm trying to figure out is what do you mean as an "operation" to be accepted? I understand the save/save as part once you make a full map, pull up all that is to be pulled up or clicked off. I now saved that one map changing the igniting map, the fuel map, and the limiter radio click. I have 9 to go. Are we saying, go back to center, that is one operation? Now, to make your second map, move back to right toggle. Because your first operation or the maps you brought up were saved, but that is one move. You now move the toggle to center once you hit a save. This then saves it to the hard drive.

Now, go back to right toggle and make your second map. Pulling up all your maps and radio clicks, those moves have to be saved. So save that map. That save has to meet the center toggle. Now, go back to right toggle and make your third map.

No, do not make 10 maps and save without moving to center to save that map made or call it an operation. How close are we now?

Left Toggle: As far as its use for the 14, are we saying this mode is not used for anything? We build the same unit with the 3 way toggle for other bikes, correct?

* Last updated by: Hub on 8/27/2013 @ 8:51 AM *

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No, do not make 10 maps and save without moving to center to save that map made or call it an operation. How close are we now?

Hub you can make make dozens of maps with out the ECU ever being connected. When you have finished doing so, Label and save each one as they are finished being made. Each may have numerous changes some may only have one. Re read in the morning to be sure. Always check your work twice.

Then go get ECU out of bike. Pic you Fav bin file.

It's Only Now that you have to hook up bench harness to your ECU. After Harness is connected to the ECU, Plug in your 12 volt power supply, Now flip switch to right, red light is now on, click write. Wait until you see Complete before touching anything.

Afterwards when write is complete, flip switch to center. Then unplug power supply, then bench harness. Now it's game time. Test your results, repeat repeat repeat,,,,, get your eyes tested and repeat repeat and repeat. Masterpiece awaits.

Hub you can make make dozens of maps with out the ECU ever being connected.

Ah, one more hidden clue. Yes, I did notice this playing with the software. It said there were changes made, do you want to save them? I said no. But that's how I'll save the map is close the program to save. We see that step? No menu bar for me I save one map only.

When you have finished doing so, Label and save each one. Each may have numerous changes some may only have one. Re read in the morning to be sure. Always check your work twice.

I may have to write down each map config on paper. This way I won't repeat the same map. I get that part. Seen your moments here we come.

It's Only Now that you have to hook up bench harness to your ECU. After Harness is connected to the ECU, Plug in your 12 volt power supply, Now flip switch to right... click write.

OK. So far we wrote 10 maps without the harness hookup. I now move the toggle to the right so this saves my 10 maps? I think the hard drive already saved this event, no? What you are saying to do is choose a map I want to try, and when I choose the file, I see the blank address and the *.bin as what is going to be found. So, what I need to be in to do this is right toggle. I understand write ECU will do this and how you find the map to reburn the ECU with.

So what you are saying is, return to center so you can pick another map, switch to the right, then burn the next bin file. I get the moving back to center. It clears the next burn so its like you see the tack and needles zero out. Same as turning the key on and off you want to watch the needles swing again.

Afterwards when write is complete, flip switch to center.

Man, I had a feeling we were going to wind up on the same page, 4 pages ago. If the box is hot, you switch to the center, to me, it's a move like turning the computer on and off to save the changes. Or, I never move out of right switch. I just power down to act like the center switch, no?

What the box recognizes are my 10 made maps. So once I switch to the right, [for the very fist time, mind you] a popup window is going to say, 'we are saving, do nothing,' or, you know the drill what it will say. So far, I think you all got me up and running sans me making my own moves and finding out the hard way. You'all saved me a few steps, so thanks. So, once I see this move of the recognition of the 10 maps or not, I'll make it a habit to right toggle, wait for any popup, follow up, then consider this an event. I move back to the right from center, I am now ready to load up map 2 or 3 and burn it to the ECU.

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I now move the toggle to the right so this saves my 10 maps?

No, toggle is only a valve to let info flow into the ECU. Toggle has Zero to do with save. Save is only in your computer or after write is save inside ECU.

and how you find the map to reburn the ECU with.

Ahhh, I see the issue. Ok, when you save a binfile pay very close attention as to where you where you are saving it or locating it again will be a pain staking process. Use ZX-14R, this will stand out.

Once the file is located click on it and then to open. Now your bin will be loaded into the woolich software. Now you are able to write. Finding a file can be tricky. Study this step. Save ten, go find ten or do not move forward until you have mastered or all work will be lost in the abyss of your hard drive.

So what you are saying is, return to center so you can pick another map, switch to the right, then burn the next bin file.

No, forget switch,,, it's only a one way check valve for info to travel. Only important in the before and after write process.

What the box recognizes are my 10 made maps.

Box can see nothing, no memory only a flash tool. Only your computer can recognize a bin file

So far, I think you all got me up and running sans me making my own moves and finding out the hard way. You'all saved me a few steps, so thanks.

After this fun starts. Cheers

By the way Hub. Use the "Notes" section on the top right where the bin file details are when you pull it up. You can put lengthy descriptions about what you've changed in there if you want to identify files easy later.

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Thanks, sweet. I did notice that note section. My bins will be save under 'desktop' file so they are easy to find. Sounds better than a paper trail too. Plus, this new computer is so buggy, I can drag and drop my made bins to a thumbdrive, I think?

I think I got the gist of the Wooly, Romes. Right toggle is just a door to get in an burn. Center is more a neutral gear where you can't burn if you tried. There is no communication between the software, the bin, to burn... Say in a way of speaking.

I have the viewable harness coming. One more full download of the Wooly package to the garage computer. As the bike runs, I'll get to see the map in stock mode, to Ivan's hack, to a full hack. All this just to see who pops up in a map change? Especially in ign map.

If the numbers change, that's one thing. If they swing to a different map number a bin can't find? Get it? We are at 4 stages:

1. Full power
2. Middle mode
3. Rain mode
4. Backup is now backed up...

... This is the mappage I'm after.

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Someone recently bought an 09 14. The PO told him it had a Guhl flash and it also has a Pc5 w/autotune.
His first observation of the current map was trimmed kind of funny/crazy.

From 4750 rpm to 5250 rpm the fueling goes from -32% to +61% with 500rpm.

He has saved this setup, reset the autotune to zero, loaded the PC base map for Akra full system which btw was better from the start.

His question is, "... how come such monster fueling variations, which effect has the Guhl flash on the PCV and Autotune? Should they be used together?"

He asked if he has done the right thing by staring again with a known baseline? He hasn't... "really felt any difference in the way it runs before and after?"

Don't be shy to ask. It's a puzzling question. So the deal is, who set the -32%? Is this a Guhl move, the pc5's move? The ECU's move?

We are 09, no tone wheels on the rims. So forget any shifting pattern where the sub/ign/fuel will move 3 ways like an R. That more looks like a limp shift? Load the sub to close. Close the fuel too. Hit the ign 500 rpm right here? Strange if the ECU is going to do any kind of 500 rpm move like that. Remember, when the R came out, mother tea said they use those 3 skid moves, whereas the Big3 use fuel/ign to do any lagging there of.

I don't think the pc5 moves that dramatic in step with a 500 rpm spread? Anyone? So the ECU and pc5 are out as far as variables? How about what was last done to make it run worse, no change, or something like that came to your attention? You compared the akra to the next move? Next move was a flash?

How close did we narrow it down? If you are now without flash, back to the akra map, see if the pc5 can clean it up some? It's a learn so some run for 12 minutes at idle, others meet that time, then take it out and run it up to a set high rpm. That is one type of learn. Read how they step you thru the pc5 and how that product learns? Sometimes it's just riding for so long. Sometimes it's key on and off (cars do this) to learn. You could Run the akra alone. Lots of combos.

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Hub where did you get the above Question ? I know this set up well, send me the pc5 map I will advise. Something is wrong IMO.

rickromans@rogers.com

Pc5 w/autotune.
His first observation of the current map was trimmed kind of funny/crazy.
From 4750 rpm to 5250 rpm the fueling goes from -32% to +61% with 500rpm.

This is a result of not knowing how to use Auto Tune. It's not plug and play as some would have you believe. Be careful.

* Last updated by: Romans on 8/28/2013 @ 10:17 AM *

Romes, it was a deleted post. Once you click it, decide to delete it, she is already sent to your mailbox. So if the person is still reading this, you might get an email from him?

My nephew just picked up his bike a few minutes ago. I now have a rack. I'm thinking of that accel mode I can use again? Stock, she hammers the AFR to about 13. With this unit, I can dive deep into the 11's and 10's. That is fatorqueability rear wheel spin tuning.

Before I do any tuning, I'm going to remove the header and have a bung welded for the 02. Wire up the accel unit, meter, (cough-cough) a few toggleable hacks, lock the sub open, etc.

And see if I can answer the code to the PAIR? I.E., take out the light at the dash.

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This is a result of not knowing how to use Auto Tune. It's not plug and play as some would have you believe. Be careful.

I know the 'be careful' part. My whack way of thinking out that 02 is if this pc5 can be set to trim at 14.1 AFR, not the stoic 14.7? I mean, it shouldn't take your 13.2 AFR map say, and the 02 now targets back to stoic? Makes no sense, right?

So watt you are saying is the pc5 has the capability to run any target you program in? Can you program the pc5 to target to 13.2 AFR? Then, the 02 targets out the smoothing, or stabilizes the best target. I see that learning as a math move anyway. So you are handcuffed to the math which now learns the best whatever junk in is junk out [smoothed in a way].

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So watt you are saying is the pc5 has the capability to run any target you program in? Can you program the pc5 to target to 13.2 AFR?

yes see example table below.

0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 0 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 0 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 0 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 0 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 0 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 0 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 0 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 0 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 0 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.6 13.6 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.6 13.6 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.3 13.7 13.7 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.3 13.7 13.7 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.5 13.5 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.5 13.5 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.5 13.5 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.2
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.2 13.2 13.1
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

What guys do wrong is stab the gas, come back to a TPS position of say 20% from 80%. Auto tune see's to much un burned fuel in that particular fuel cell and wham pulls it. What makes this process bad is it repeats itself over and over until you have #'s like above. Auto tune adds fuel in cells on the way over the bad cells and minus and the way down. You see this on throttle lift,,,, YOU MUST WATCH FOR THIS OR ????

10110010001110010100010101000011110010101001010100000111001010101011111111100

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Still, a few 13.7's and 6's along that map is nothing. Those were fat entries, not lean. So if the 02 runs over that X to Y it's going to smell the same number and target it where? Looks safe rich to me? But if you are saying our phantom questioneer saw a minus spike due to the pc5's doings? It's a math calc. So that spike means nothing unless he sits there sustained. Whatever rpm increment that intersects, yes, if he's cruising there all the time, sounds like it will lag lean until it leaves that X to Y combo of throttle to rpm input.

But if we are saying that is a map being re-plotted and all the pc5 is doing is mathing the junk in of that made map, no?

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Looks safe rich to me?

Yes it is. This is the Dyno-Jet default AFR table. The issue lies where in auto tune is trying to make the AFR # you have plotted in the table. If you stab the throttle extra fuel enters from forward fuel cells. Then when you quickly let off and stop at the 20% TPS auto tune see's you to rich,,, but your not, yet pulls fuel anyway because of how it got to that point. Make sense ? Auto tune is always trying to make the AFR # and never sleeps,,,, on off of the gas quick pulls and pulls and pulls fuel. Next forward adds and adds to fix but is to slow to be in exact same place. Makes a mess of your map. Wild plus #'s next to huge minus tells all. That lovely back fire plays havick with the #'s as well. Used properly is a great tool.

Then when you quickly let off and stop at the 20% TPS auto tune see's you to rich,,, but your not, yet pulls fuel anyway because of how it got to that point. Make sense?

To a point. When we lift, that is still vacuum pull at the IAP. A lot of pull. So that is like saying we open the throttle at WOT and there is a lot of pull going rich too. So yeah, I see a target of 13 and a pull of 11-12, then sure, that is pullout fuel as she never sleeps and keeps an eye on your every move.

So it was junk input at the keyboard? Is that how the factory made the map? You are making a map from scratch how? I can see the OE factory map is how there is no pop. Once that pc is involved, what I'm saying is that it's not the pc, not the ecu, it's the junk in? That is my question to narrow down who is doing what?

Yes, the never sleeper is a good name for the 02. It's that lag count between the register of the sleeper waking up to that one cell number. It then pinged the other way, as in equally? So for every minus cell, it plus'd it = Too late here's the pop. That make sense?

So yes, I see the lag time of a narrow or wide band and that timing of the ping takes time to correct. And this is classic, "I need a map" mine is bla-bla seems to me that being one scenario.

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Justin,

With the real time tether, the bike is running, I can both watch the subthrottle move to 100% open, I have the Woolich software open on the monitor. I take my mouse, click other maps, set the STP to 100%. I should see the subthrottle open. After all, I'm not making a map, I am at the real map in real time. I've been wrong so far, how close am I to this scenario? And I'm in right toggle to do this. Thanks.

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Hi Hub, i think there is a misunderstanding with the function of the on bike harness, this does not give you real time control over the maps and settings in the ECU. It simply makes it easier to write changes to the ECU without having to pull the ECU out of the bike.

When you make changes and write to the ECU, you are actually erasing the ECU then writing in the new bin file.

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No misunderstanding. I was just thinking about OBD2 kind of look see? But you need I guess, way more motherboard to run functions by hand. I was thinking it would loophole via the computer hookup? All the dials and clicks are there too. See where I was going?

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Ahh, you are talking about engine data, i mentioned in some earlier posts about the different protocol on the 2012+ ZX14R and how we were working towards enabling this.

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Yes, the never sleeper is a good name for the 02. It's that lag count between the register of the sleeper waking up to that one cell number. It then pinged the other way, as in equally? So for every minus cell, it plus'd it = Too late here's the pop. That make sense?
So yes, I see the lag time of a narrow or wide band and that timing of the ping takes time to correct. And this is classic, "I need a map" mine is bla-bla seems to me that being one scenario.

Exactly you got it. The Lag,,, she is to slow both ways. Run it like a Dyno and map is golden. AFR needle bag on AFR to die for. stab TPS you run lean in the bottom end where we cruz,,, all bad

Justin, The scenario goes: Say we have a few Woolich owners, we own the box, we paid for the bin files, we all ride the same bike. I burn one down, and want to trade or try a pre-written bin. If I want another 14R owner to try it, can they open about 5 maps I've burned to try I sent them the bin file(s) I made? Thanks?

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Or is the scenario, burn it to a cd and send it to them, or they can burn it if I send? Thanks again.

* Last updated by: Hub on 9/2/2013 @ 3:48 PM *

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