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Thread: Flash Negatives!

Created on: 06/27/15 01:24 PM

Replies: 111

yannih


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Location:

Queenstown New Zealand

Joined: 11/08/12

Posts: 2172

Flash Negatives!
06/27/15 1:24 PM

Judging from the history of all the positives I have read, and more importantly negatives I have not read on this forum about flashing, this could possibly be a very short lived thread indeed.

Yes, there are plenty of very satisfied people with their flash upgrades out there. It certainly appears that these are the vast majority.
But there are also unsatisfied users where the positive hype just didn't come to fruition.

Its easy to out a supplier for poor service and value because 99% of the time we don't know them and have no connection.
But what if that supplier is quite a well known contributor to this and other ZX-14 forums?
It becomes a battle of "do I let all know of my negative experience as they deserve to know" over "I don't want to compromise a well known persons reputation and business"?

My story?
I had a very negative experience with a well known flash supplier due to my Australian spec'd bike being different from US models. As soon as I received my flashed ECU back the bike had hesitation issues and after a lot of back and forth over a period of time it was me (with the assistance of information sourced from very experienced people) who ended up resolving the issue due to my own investigation.
The resolution was a fairly obvious one to a trained and experienced person (which I was not) and I was extremely disappointed that this wasn't recognized by the flash supplier which caused a lot of worry and wasted time and effort on my part.
It is important to add that this flash supplier paid for my ECU to be shipped back to the US to resolve (failed after a guarantee the problem had been found) and then back to me again.
Plus in the end and after some prompting a full refund for the cost of the flash was provided.
Positives are important and I guess to an extent I was quite lucky as at least my ECU wasn't fried like some unfortunate people and in the end the supplier was decent enough to agree to a full refund.

I now have a local custom dyno ECU flash/tune that was done by local tuners that 100% matches my individual bike and is not general and generic in any way. All flash attributes such as safety mode removal, TC settings saved, RPM limiter increased, etc were included.
It was however more expensive.

So why bring this up now after a period of silence?

Firstly because of other related thread discussions about the pro's and con's of flashing are starting to come through, and ultimately I think people making a flashing decision have a right to know both sides of the story.
Secondly to provide an avenue for anyone wanting to tell their flash stories where the result was less than perfect should they choose to do so.
And finally and most importantly, for flashers themselves to contribute with specific challenges they have faced themselves where things have not gone to plan with their customers and the related resolutions.
We all know things don't always go as they should flash wise but rarely hear from the flashers themselves on these issues which does reduce credibility to some extent in my opinion.

Anyone who reads flashing posts on this forum will see there is no doubt some flashers are more honest and forthcoming than others.

Opening a hornets nest here?
Possibly.
But isn't more information on all subjects what this site is all about?


* Last updated by: yannih on 6/28/2015 @ 3:00 PM *



2012 Metalic Spark Black Kawasaki ZX-14R. Yoshimura carbon R-77 slip ons,Custom dyno ECU flash,Striker rearsets,Hyperpro RSC steering damper,HM Plus quickshifter,ASV C5 levers,Hel SS transparent red front/rear brake and clutch lines,Kawasaki/MRA vented spoiler screen,Carbon heel guards,R&G radiator guard,Powerbronze carbon rear hugger,ZX-10 front fender with fender extender,Yoshimura frame sliders,M-Factory rear stand stoppers,Escort Redline radar detector,Techspec tank grips and tank protector,Versys 1000 fender eliminator,Kaoko cruise control,Moto red oil cap,Oxford heated grips,Red magnetic oil drain plug,Red and black Bagster Spider rear seat bag (for touring only).

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20646

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/27/15 2:49 PM

I think it's important for Aussies to be aware there is an issue with US flashes and Australian bikes. If your tuner wasn't aware of the problem, then chances are other tuners are not either. So what exactly was the problem?

Some people buy a used ECU for the flash. That seems to be a good move if you can find a cheap unflashed ECU but if you have to spend over $300 on it + the cost of the flash, modules start to look like a good option. So far, no module to raise the rev limiter and a few other things the flash does. I doubt there ever will such electronics marketted. There is no reason to provide those now that flash technology has become the standard mode of tuning.


* Last updated by: Rook on 6/27/2015 @ 2:50 PM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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TRAILBOSS


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Location: Arlington, WA

Joined: 03/02/14

Posts: 364

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/27/15 3:50 PM

I think this is a well-worded discussion opener.

All of the flash vendors and customers should participate, in the hopes of creating a better overall product for their customers and the industry.



2016 ZX-14R SE ABS (Harambike) - Brock's Ti Dual CT, 2WDW Flash, double bubble windscreen, Givi Tanklock 15L with 12v outlet, SW Motech Quick-Lock Evo Contour rack with Givi V35 bags, SW Motech tail mount with Coocase Wizard top box, KAOKO cruise control, fender eliminator, Vortex rearsets, Vortex V3 fuel cap, Vortex spools, Stompgrips, PSR SBK passenger pegs, Helibars risers, R&G radiator guard, frame plugs, Starrotors 55w 6K HIDs, Brembo MC/Rotors/Calipers, braided steel brake lines. 204hp/120tq

2013 ZX14R (Mjölnir)- Brock's Ti CT Meg, 2WDW Flash. 202hp 119tq. RIP

2008 Kawasaki ZX-10R trackfighter - Yoshimura R55, PCV, Servo Eliminator, Traxxion AK20 Cartridges, Penske Triple Clicker shock, EBC HH pads, Pirelli Superbike SC2 slicks, custom subframe, RSV4 tail, Ignition relocate, KX450F number plate, Apex adjustable clipons, CRG levers, Lever guards, Vortex rearsets, Stomp Grips, XT Lap Timer. 188hp, and not as much tq as the 14R!

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Romans


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Location: Toronto,ON

Joined: 02/13/09

Posts: 5926

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/27/15 4:09 PM

Here is what I had just entered over in another thread. Fits here better


Flashing can go wrong on occasion. I had the ECU on my 2012 ZX-14R flashed by a well known person on another forum. The bike ran great but showed an error code. I sent it back after he contacted Justin to create a fix. They installed it and sent it back. Got a different code. I sent it back and forth numerous times and they flashed it back to stock but eventually the ECU got fried. They finally sent me another stock ECU and covered all my shipping costs and could never figure out exactly what happened. So it's not always burning rubber and shit eating grins.

Finally, someone else willing to post the truth. You are so correct. Not always shit eating Grins for either party.

I myself have personally destroyed two forum members ECU's. One was a 14R Cali ECU the other was a Gen1 Cali ECU. Not a Good Feeling. In both cases a brand new ECU was purchased and sent out to the member no Questions asked.

What I will never understand is why the happy customers wave their flag so high while the poor guy that had His ECU destroyed keeps quiet and heads underground in some kind of shame. This is wrong.

So can someone please tell me what's wrong with telling it just like it is ? Pretending all is perfect in flash World provides misinformation. Members have the right to know what they are getting into. Only from here can they make a informed purchase.

You guys need to know, Yes, "Their Are Risks" anyone telling you different is a ,,,,

Please don't misunderstand. I highly recommend getting your ECU flashed, but then again you must know I'm selling it too.

arizcowboy your most certainly not alone in this. ECU's shown in this pic that I'm working on are not my own. All have have been sent to me for study. Once these ECU's start showing signs of trouble,,,,,,,


All of the flash vendors and customers should participate, in the hopes of creating a better overall product for their customers and the industry.

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13739

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/27/15 4:57 PM

"do I let all know of my negative experience as they deserve to know" over "I don't want to compromise a well known persons reputation and business"?

If I told you how many tuners my guy has told me they can be ouTTuned, I could not believe it, but then again, my guy has told me so many trick racing steps I can't divulge them, they are that common sense is there are no secrets to tuning once you see how simple the approach was.

My story? I had a very negative experience due to my Australian spec'd bike being different from US models. As soon as I received my flashed ECU back the bike had hesitation issues and after a lot of back and forth over a period of time it was me (with the assistance of information sourced from very experienced people) who ended up resolving the issue due to my own investigation.

Interesting. More ouch.

the pro's and con's of flashing and ultimately I think people making a flashing decision have a right to know both sides of the story.

Well, it's fun to goof with Tall, i.e., [the next flasher jumping in the lake] and throw snake eyes [told you so] eyes keeps flapping those lips... lullabuy bricks.

to provide an avenue for anyone wanting to tell their flash stories where the result was less than perfect should they choose to do so.

Shit, I don't see why not? I sure am not about to let it go. Thishit is interesting. That brick does funny cantankeroustuff: I'm riveted to it.

but rarely hear from the flashers themselves on these issues which does reduce credibility to some extent in my opinion.

In my opinion, let them remain quiet about their bricks. As long as you know going in you have a chance; I as a flasher would not guarantee its results. I would tell you going in, shoot the dice. You want to get wet in the lake and here is the price to keep the lights on, the roller moving, the computer downloading, the ride to the PO to mail it, all that effort on both parts is parts is parts and it ain't my bike, it ain't my brick! See the cashier at the dealershithe fuck U! I did not drop the lead on the motherboard, dis is your shit, we got that clear yet?; do not put me in the middle of dishit called flashit. LOL in so many words.

Anyone who reads flashing posts on this forum will see there is no doubt some flashers are more honest and forthcoming than others.

Hole in the abstractheory do I have a distinguished list and growing. I cannot ask these guys theory if I blow them away already are the basics. I can only say they can drop the bread in the toaster and it comes up crispy, meaning, they could not build the generic toaster per say; name each part; wire it up; per say. I can place one abstract against the names, but I'll save you the boredom me finding an answer from them. And again, the answers I am chasing cannot be answered so no offense we are not on the same page are the bread winners. LOL that's funny in so many ways!

Opening a hornets nest here?
Possibly.
But isn't more information on all subjects what this site is all about?

Honest nest is more like it. Thanks for the info. Geez it keeps coming!!!



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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yannih


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Location:

Queenstown New Zealand

Joined: 11/08/12

Posts: 2172

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/28/15 12:29 AM

Rook and Hub, you are both correct.
I should add more information and describe my experience as it may assist someone in the future with a similar issue or spec'd bike such as mine.

My ECU was sent for flashing and while it was away I also added an HM Plus quick shifter to my newly purchased 2012 14R. As soon as the flashed ECU was received back and installed into the bike a problem was found.
In gears 1, 2 and 3, all good. However when the engine was hot, in gears 4, 5 and 6 at around 3500-4500rpm, and at constant throttle a serious hesitation was experienced. Very much like running out of fuel.
My biggest problem was the quick shifter was installed while the ECU was away so I was not 100% sure if it was flash or quick shifter related.
I contacted the flash supplier and that's when the resolution process started so from memory here's how it went down.

I was told to block off one of the pair valves to correct air flow and all flashes required this. No resolution.
My bike was due for a major service including changing the spark plugs. It was suggested the plugs may have been causing a problem. The major service was performed with plugs replaced. No resolution.
I decided to purchase another brand new quick shifter harness and replace the old one to see if this resolved the problem. No resolution.
I then bypassed the actual quick shifter actuator so it was disconnected and out of the loop. No resolution.
So the quick shifter had been totally removed from the equation.

It had to be the flash.

I was then asked to take the bike on a test run in Low power mode due to the flash supplier advising their flash did not affect the specified RPM range in Low power mode where the issue was being experienced.
I was told it was a bike issue if the problem persisted in this setting.
I did this. Same issue again.

I now had a bike that was not right, I had no idea why, and it was really playing on my mind.
Was it an issue that had coincidentally developed while the ECU was away?
Had I missed something with the quick shifter?
Had I damaged something installing the quick shifter?
Was it the flash?
Had the ECU been compromised?
I ended up deducing it must be the flash as all was A1 before the ECU was sent away and I had done all I could to take the quick shifter out of the picture. Plus it was too much of a coincidence for something else to have happened at that exact time.

So the ECU was returned to the US again to be checked and reflashed.

While the ECU was away I started doing research of my own as after much correspondence there seemed no resolution forthcoming from the flash supplier.
I made inquiries to knowledgeable people about the symptoms and searched related forums.

I then found that Australian/European spec'd ZX-14's have O2 sensors and US spec'd ZX-14's have atmospheric sensors. I also found the O2 sensor only affected gears 4, 5 and 6 and a faulty one could cause a hesitation in the same RPM ranges I was experiencing my issues with.
I was sure I had found the issue's cause.
The O2 sensor was somehow affecting the flash.
I wrote to the flash supplier advising this but was told this was not the problem as it had been dealt with in the flash.
I was also told that while checking the ECU, the issue had definitely been found in the flash mapping, corrected, and the ECU was on its way back to me.

It was received, reinstalled and tested. No resolution and the same issue as before.

It was then I decided to take matters into my own hands and for my own sanity disconnect the O2 sensor as a test because it was such a strong fit as the culprit.

Bike ran like a dream.
Problem solved!

I wrote to advise the flash supplier of this and received a response that an assumption had been made that I had disconnected the O2 sensor right from the very start!
Needless to say I was particularly angry and upset as I had been needlessly put through all this worry and effort unnecessarily due to ineptitude.
I had suggested the O2 sensor as the cause of the issue and was dismissed.
Plus at no time had I been advised that I should check that this had been disconnected.

This is when the refund discussion started.
I no longer had confidence in the party I was dealing with and no matter how good or bad the actual product was I wanted nothing to do with it due to not being able to rely on any reasonable level of knowledge or support.

I should add that when riding the bike with the flashed ECU I never experienced the amazing levels of power and smoothness improvements described by many satisfied US customers.
But there is every chance that my mind was closed and negative as I was constantly worried about, and testing my bike in the RPM ranges/gears that produced the issue.

Thankfully, after an initial flash, a reflash and a final local custom dyno flash, my ECU still seems to be okay.
Obviously I hope there are no hidden surprises in the future.

So the moral?
If you have an O2 sensor on your bike, it must be disconnected before your ECU is flashed or it will interfere and over ride your fueling in a negative way (this is not required on US bikes as they do not have O2 sensors but atmospheric sensors).
Plus if you have the hesitation issues I had in gears 4, 5 and 6 at 3500-4500 rpm's, check your O2 sensor.

This is probably obvious to the well informed but worrying and frustrating for those who do not know and experience the resulting issues.
I know. I experienced it...

I expected the flash supplier to know this as a matter of basic knowledge but I guess their thought process was orientated towards US spec'd bikes and not Australian/European spec'd models (I asked if they had flashed Australian bikes before I went ahead with this supplier and was told "Yes, several with great results").

Hopefully this prevents anyone going through what I did.

Overall not a positive experience but live and learn as I am now very happy with my local dyno flash that was custom made for my individual bike.


* Last updated by: yannih on 6/28/2015 @ 6:13 AM *



2012 Metalic Spark Black Kawasaki ZX-14R. Yoshimura carbon R-77 slip ons,Custom dyno ECU flash,Striker rearsets,Hyperpro RSC steering damper,HM Plus quickshifter,ASV C5 levers,Hel SS transparent red front/rear brake and clutch lines,Kawasaki/MRA vented spoiler screen,Carbon heel guards,R&G radiator guard,Powerbronze carbon rear hugger,ZX-10 front fender with fender extender,Yoshimura frame sliders,M-Factory rear stand stoppers,Escort Redline radar detector,Techspec tank grips and tank protector,Versys 1000 fender eliminator,Kaoko cruise control,Moto red oil cap,Oxford heated grips,Red magnetic oil drain plug,Red and black Bagster Spider rear seat bag (for touring only).

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extrapolator


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Location: N Cent FL

Joined: 08/11/14

Posts: 1828

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/28/15 7:35 AM

Yannih - Thank you very much for posting the details of your experience. I hadn't realized, but you're right: I don't remember reading much of anything negative about flashing. I had read a brief comment or two about ECU's being 'fried' but guess I dismissed that as not being caused by the flasher or just so uncommon I don't need to worry about it. I dunno why; maybe I just prefer good news

I have not yet had my ECU flashed for a couple reasons: 1) Never had it done before, so just gut feeling haven't been real confident in the process; 2) The less-than-professional posts I see from the flashers themselves, which I've posted about recently in another thread; 3) Cost!; 4) Do I really need this?? when this bike is already faster than every other bike I encounter on the road, and heck I don't race anyway!; 5) I generally like to do mods that can be put back to OEM reasonably, in case something goes wrong, or I change my mind, or I decide to sell the bike, and I wasn't sure whether an ECU could be put back to OEM.

Now that you got your local tune and all is good, now do you notice a performance improvement?

Thanks again ... and glad to read you got yours all sorted out.


* Last updated by: extrapolator on 6/28/2015 @ 7:36 AM *



=x+rap01a+0r

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20646

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/28/15 7:55 AM

I wasn't sure whether an ECU could be put back to OEM.

My understanding is that it can be flashed back to stock values but it no longer a
kawasaki OEM part.
kawasaki diagnostic equipment will not work on an ECU that has been flashed.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Romans


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Location: Toronto,ON

Joined: 02/13/09

Posts: 5926

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/28/15 9:16 AM

So the moral?
If you have an O2 sensor on your bike, it must be disconnected before your ECU is flashed or it will interfere and over ride your fueling in a negative way (this is not required on US bikes as they do not have O2 sensors but atmospheric sensors).
Plus if you have the hesitation issues I had in gears 4, 5 and 6 at 3500-4500 rpm's, check your O2 sensor.

This is probably obvious to the well informed but worrying and frustrating for those who do not know and experience the resulting issues.
I know. I experienced it...

I expected the flash supplier to know this as a matter of basic knowledge


On bikes that use an O2 sensor in the stock exhaust we have a closed loop area that cannot be adjusted by a Power Commander or Flash Alone. If you make adjustments with the PCV or Flash in the closed loop area the O2 sensor will sense these changes and the ECM will alter the fuel curve accordingly.

If you want to have full fuel control over the entire RPM range of your bike then you will need to bypass the closed loop area which a O2 eliminators will accomplish. If you are looking for the best fuel economy and not worried about making changes to the closed loop area you can leave the stock O2 sensors connected and still make changes outside of the closed loop area in the Flash. Make sense ?

Just wanted to make sure You understand you do not need to run your bike without your 02 being plugged in.

2) The less-than-professional posts I see from the flashers themselves, which I've posted about recently in another thread

extrapolater, I help as many as I can here to understand. With their understanding hopefully I helped some to make informed decisions.

As far as less than professional posts, well for me personally I have always tried to be a gentleman and to keep my personal feelings off the table. More work may be required here. I respect your comments Cheers.

Rick

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13739

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/28/15 2:25 PM

WATThe WHO She WATTShit???

Just wanted to make sure You understand you do not need to run your bike without your 02 being plugged in.

I get my ECU flashed, I'm out of town like way out of town, my bike sputters in the first few gears and I'm riding so fast in the other gears the 02 shuts down?

I remove my 02 and now I am zero 02 in the compute using the first few gears is low emissions? Is that how I read that? Too fast is the fluttering PAIR valve at that higher gear speed? Idle and all that no problem?

Am I understanding this? I remove a sensor [hello] method = No sensor input? Did that not step on a rubber duck, quack like a rub beer served 42°F at the minimum is it Beer:30 yet? Too late for flap flops?

Seven did the sixty millimeters method in or watt? That's sensor down, up pops 'the method,' who's your daddy controls the elevation, and did we not default to, and it's my fault you do not turtle talk?

Signed,

I cannot believe it'snot butt hertz.


* Last updated by: Hub on 6/28/2015 @ 2:28 PM *



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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seno


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Location: Lithia, Florida

Joined: 08/31/11

Posts: 592

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/28/15 5:25 PM

Yannih, who flashed your bike?



2015 30th Anniversary Edition 14R #250-> Brock's CT Ceramic Coated, Ivan's ECU Flash V2 & Map, Block off plates, HM Strain gauge quickshifter, GPR Damper, Spiegler lines, Muzzy's Sliders, Pazzo levers, Rizoma Next Fluid Tanks, DDM Ultra 5500K HID's Low & Hi, DB Windscreen, Cox Radiator guard, gold titanium bolts... too many to list at this point

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toledoUPSguy


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Joined: 06/17/12

Posts: 512

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/28/15 6:00 PM

Yannih, who flashed your bike?

Yes, what he said x2



The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.
2014 zx14r in nuclear sunset orange and black

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13739

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/28/15 6:48 PM

I was extremely disappointed that this wasn't recognized by the flash supplier which caused a lot of worry and wasted time and effort on my part.

Now, don't take offense to this, but it takes years to figure out failures and have that hands on kind of experience; like a transmission from a car is one example. So if my instincts are right, I can pick 'The Hand' speak of experience, then I can see how Cblast speaks and it's just not running wit da pro'zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Where was I? If not C, then Nel was in collaboration and both are hitting zero mail it back for watt? Change to a higher octane is not it in the diagnosis. Was this an example of the classic, take your abstract and use it against you? I know crap about computing, but diagnosing at least leans that way in theory.

So here is were I have no gripe with Cblast, nor Ivan, you guys just do not get it, I am after specific steps to this brick. Nothing personal, nor am I defaming the flashers. I hear BS when it steps and oh well, use is going to get clowned and wear it well. I want to wear the suit and be wrong so I learn something is why.

<<<< This is what you are up against. I do not make the rules, I only try to repair them as per only fails in so many ways. And when an 02 queefs in 3 gears and none in the other 3, see how if I use this variable it is not the fuel?

The best part about the net is to weed out the tone from the noize. So, it's a simple yes or no on Cblast's part. C, for all the marbles come clean, this has your DNA, yes or no? Take no offense. I know this stuff is pretty complicated and you'd have to be on the same page with me on the processing portion of this. If you are not on the same page, it's not your fault. I have no skin in this. You have a customer base and I don't want you to lose it per say. This is more on your shoulders or some other flasher come forward.

I can see the diagnosing is not up to par in an ever so basic way. And it's not my fault she queefs, nor yours in an ever so BASIC WAY.

Signed,

"The best can be beaten."



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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yannih


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Location:

Queenstown New Zealand

Joined: 11/08/12

Posts: 2172

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/28/15 9:47 PM

Seno and Toledo,
I understand you guys wanting to know who the flasher was. I am sure there are others also.
But my aim here was not to put anyone in but try to pass information incase it helps others.
Remember the costs were fully paid for when the ECU was returned and after that a full refund was received.
I question the knowledge of non US bikes, but not decency of the agency in question so apologies but I am not willing to share the name.


* Last updated by: yannih on 10/16/2015 @ 6:04 AM *



2012 Metalic Spark Black Kawasaki ZX-14R. Yoshimura carbon R-77 slip ons,Custom dyno ECU flash,Striker rearsets,Hyperpro RSC steering damper,HM Plus quickshifter,ASV C5 levers,Hel SS transparent red front/rear brake and clutch lines,Kawasaki/MRA vented spoiler screen,Carbon heel guards,R&G radiator guard,Powerbronze carbon rear hugger,ZX-10 front fender with fender extender,Yoshimura frame sliders,M-Factory rear stand stoppers,Escort Redline radar detector,Techspec tank grips and tank protector,Versys 1000 fender eliminator,Kaoko cruise control,Moto red oil cap,Oxford heated grips,Red magnetic oil drain plug,Red and black Bagster Spider rear seat bag (for touring only).

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untamed


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Location: RSA

Joined: 08/18/13

Posts: 347

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/29/15 12:25 AM

Yannih - what do you know. A friend of mine experienced exactly the same thing. We have the same bikes here in South Africa as Australia. He had exactly the same set up as me. PCV, Autotune with 02 eliminator.
Check "Romans flash thread" Romans stepped in and told me to disconnect O 2 sensor and see what the difference is. This solved the issue immediately. He has been riding it like this with no codes etc.

I flashed mine after this and the flasher showed me in the flash using Woolich software that there is a "disable O2 sensor" option. Being the same tuner as my friend he suggested I leave mine disconnected and then fine tune it via the PCV and auto tune.

So my experience knowing this was a bit more positive. My bike does go better in all gears. Biggest noticeable difference is gears 1-3. With low range far better in gears 4-6.

He also showed me two ECU's flashed by a well known flasher in the US that had problems. Please don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the flashers in the US. There is more than enough good testimonies. However as Hub pointed out its really expensive and far to send ECU's backwards and forwards. Also time consuming.

However we just might be able to help someone with a Euro spec Bike to get the best out of their flash.



Life begins at 40.......The fun starts at 240.
Now riding 2014 ohlins ZZR 1400, Z 750, GPZ1100ZX, ZZR1100, Hayabusa, GSXR1000, 2009 ZX14 special edition.

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yannih


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Location:

Queenstown New Zealand

Joined: 11/08/12

Posts: 2172

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/29/15 2:21 AM

Gday Untamed,
Really glad you and your mate were sorted with minimal frustration.


* Last updated by: yannih on 6/29/2015 @ 2:21 AM *



2012 Metalic Spark Black Kawasaki ZX-14R. Yoshimura carbon R-77 slip ons,Custom dyno ECU flash,Striker rearsets,Hyperpro RSC steering damper,HM Plus quickshifter,ASV C5 levers,Hel SS transparent red front/rear brake and clutch lines,Kawasaki/MRA vented spoiler screen,Carbon heel guards,R&G radiator guard,Powerbronze carbon rear hugger,ZX-10 front fender with fender extender,Yoshimura frame sliders,M-Factory rear stand stoppers,Escort Redline radar detector,Techspec tank grips and tank protector,Versys 1000 fender eliminator,Kaoko cruise control,Moto red oil cap,Oxford heated grips,Red magnetic oil drain plug,Red and black Bagster Spider rear seat bag (for touring only).

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yannih


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Location:

Queenstown New Zealand

Joined: 11/08/12

Posts: 2172

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/29/15 2:23 AM

No more reports of flashing issues and no further input from flashers?

I thought this might be a fairly short lived thread...



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untamed


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Location: RSA

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RE: Flash Negatives!
06/29/15 2:48 AM

Would love to know what the guys from Woolich say? Both mine and my mates bikes were flashed using their software.
- Must the O2 sensor stay plugged in? With PCV or not?
- Should it stay plugged in but with the optimiser still connected?
- Should it be unplugged?

Is it ECU specific? Mine is the 0712 part number, be interested to see what yours is.



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Now riding 2014 ohlins ZZR 1400, Z 750, GPZ1100ZX, ZZR1100, Hayabusa, GSXR1000, 2009 ZX14 special edition.

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yannih


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RE: Flash Negatives!
06/29/15 4:20 AM

Untamed, my ECU is the same number as yours.
0712.
But this is generic and not ECU specific if you have an O2 sensor on your bike.
I will try to answer with my limited knowledge and I'm sure the guys will correct if I'm off the mark.

- Must the O2 sensor stay plugged in? With PCV or not?
Leave in if staying stock as it adjusts the afr via ambient air density. If PCV is used remove so there is no fueling conflict and use O2 eliminator/optimiser (depending what year model bike you have) to stop the dash warning light.
- Should it stay plugged in but with the optimiser still connected?
Its either O2 senor OR O2 eliminator/optimisor. You don't do both.
- Should it be unplugged?
Only if you are going to use a Power Commander or have your ECU flashed. If you ride where there is minimal elevation/air density changes you should be right if PC or flash is set to this average density. But if you have major elevation/air density changes you might want to look into that further as there will be nothing to adjust the afr as required. Maybe an auto tune?
If you remain stock, do not unplug.

Also plenty of good related information on the below thread link.
Its one I found while researching my issue.
Also explains O2 eliminators and optimisers.

Flat spot 3-4k


* Last updated by: yannih on 7/3/2015 @ 1:40 PM *



2012 Metalic Spark Black Kawasaki ZX-14R. Yoshimura carbon R-77 slip ons,Custom dyno ECU flash,Striker rearsets,Hyperpro RSC steering damper,HM Plus quickshifter,ASV C5 levers,Hel SS transparent red front/rear brake and clutch lines,Kawasaki/MRA vented spoiler screen,Carbon heel guards,R&G radiator guard,Powerbronze carbon rear hugger,ZX-10 front fender with fender extender,Yoshimura frame sliders,M-Factory rear stand stoppers,Escort Redline radar detector,Techspec tank grips and tank protector,Versys 1000 fender eliminator,Kaoko cruise control,Moto red oil cap,Oxford heated grips,Red magnetic oil drain plug,Red and black Bagster Spider rear seat bag (for touring only).

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untamed


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Location: RSA

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RE: Flash Negatives!
06/29/15 4:43 AM

Should it stay plugged in but with the optimiser still connected?
Its either O2 senor OR O2 eliminator/optimisor. you don't do both.

The Optimisor fits in line, so it plugs into your harness and then into the stock O2 sensor. You cant run it on its own (as far as I know) Info I got from Chris at Dynojet was that if you put the PCV and autotune on a European ZX 14/ZZR1400, you have to use the optimisor so you can override the stock fueling in the closed loop area.
If you disconnect the O2 sensor then it gives you an error code even if optimisor is plugged in.

Since the flash I have disconnected both, and don't have any stutter or error codes.

The Autotune has its own O2 sensor.



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seno


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RE: Flash Negatives!
06/29/15 5:41 AM

Yannih, I understand that you don't want to call people out but obviously the person who flashed your bike was inexperienced and had no business flashing it in the first place. This is my whole skepticism with all these people popping up flashing bikes just because they bought a flasher. Obviously if they were trained properly or had experience doing this they would have known what to do or not to do. I was curious to confirm a suspicion.... You are really very kind to a fucktard who messed up your ECU and caused you a bunch of drama. With that being said, I am glad you got your issue sorted out and are all squared away.

PS-> ECU unleashed did the same thing to my bike when they were "testing" out different flashes.... hey wound up blowing up my ECU in the 2012 and replacing it..... I took my bike for a test ride and then told them to get another test bike.



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untamed


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RE: Flash Negatives!
06/29/15 9:39 AM

I think some of the more experienced flashers also get it wrong from time to time. Maybe they just don't want to admit it. I suppose a good thing to look out for is the sign/waiver "we don't take resposnibilty for any damages........etc etc" Stay away from those type of dealers/tuners they don't back their products or expertise.



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Now riding 2014 ohlins ZZR 1400, Z 750, GPZ1100ZX, ZZR1100, Hayabusa, GSXR1000, 2009 ZX14 special edition.

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Hub


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RE: Flash Negatives!
06/29/15 10:22 AM

Flat spot was dated ?/8/14. Someone should have put 2&2 together. When was this flash, yanni, this year I assume?

Yannih, I understand that you don't want to call people out but obviously the person who flashed your bike was inexperienced and had no business flashing it in the first place.

Noted. But I do not look at the flasher like that. I more see someone taking the effort and learn as you go. Where are you going to find experience but to jump right in, learn from your mistakes, etc.

Obviously if they were trained properly or had experience doing this they would have known what to do or not to do.

With that being said, where are the flash schools? This is big time hit and miss and mother tea loves selling you ECU's. As if it hurts the bottom line.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Blkcasper


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Location: California

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Posts: 766

RE: Flash Negatives!
06/29/15 11:00 AM

Hello, as most of you know, I am said guy with Cali ECU that caused a firestorm. Romans took a lot of unnecessary heat for that issue. He's a great standup guy and I have a lot of respect for him and his work. Once problem was fixed and I got ECU back I couldn't have been happier with the results. I put over 14k trouble free miles on that bike in less than a year until said bike was totaled in an accident.

I still have said ECU as I was planning on getting new bike and was going to use it.
New bike I got Was a Non-California Spec bike and came setup already with Brocks goodies By Rickey G, ECU Flash, and PC5 and runs good so no need to change it.

Now in the process of selling said ECU I, went thru a little testing to make sure ECU would work for potential buyer. This is what I found. I had posted this in other forum.

Hey guys just found out some interesting info on the ECU's. This just in my testing of my 0715 California ECU in my non California bike with a 0714 Non California ECU.

So I swap out ECU. Turn on key and I get the check engine light on. press button for error code and get Error 3A. Which if for purge valve failure.
So apparently CALIFORNIA Specific bikes have 2 parts installed that are not on NON-California bikes. Bike starts and seem to run fine.. idle, didn't seam to miss, ect. Note: I did not ride bike just let it run for a few minites.

1. There is actually a purge valve sensor on the bike located just above the idle speed sensor California Spec bike
2. There is also an emissions canister connected to the purge valve. California Spec bike
3. There is also an Immobilizer function available on some bikes.
4. Also effects ECU P/N 0717 SEA-B1 which I think is an ABS model with immobilizer function.
5. There is also a California only and non-California option on the 0714 ecu.

I got these part numbers off of page 204 of the service manual.

Ok now question is how do you know which ECU to do you have on your bike or what ECU may possibly work?? As the P/N of ECU is the same for the ECU's???

Now the flash guys maybe able to read the ecu and see what they are before flashing??

But only way I cane see is that you have to inspect your bike to see if these options are installed.
Hope this helps some one.



Luvin My ZX14R'S.

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Hub


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RE: Flash Negatives!
06/29/15 3:09 PM

Needless to say I was particularly angry and upset as I had been needlessly put through all this worry and effort unnecessarily due to ineptitude.

If say both [alleged] flashers collaborate on this venture of flashing, you come up with this problem, I would have to assume both heads are better than one, but did both enter the room of mirrors and lights, sit down, begin to pack on the first foundation?

I had suggested the O2 sensor as the cause of the issue and was dismissed.
Plus at no time had I been advised that I should check that this had been disconnected.

I am at the (alleged) stages and it sort of narrows down to me reading someone's abstract to tuning/diagnosing.

Again, that sure sounds like the abstract is way out there in the diagnosis dismissal. I would be chasing straws, but some of this is more obvious to a tuner slamming a sniffer up the muffler, if not screwing in a pc 02 made for the pc's dyno. How many pipes are now coming bung'd?

That 02 is a large dot connector you begin to connect the dots; is that ONE HUGE CLUE of the bike. I mean, walk up to a bike and you can tell if it's open or closed loop? You can't figure that out, stepayway from the bike or go to MMI (missed most instructions) and get some basic theory behind you.

Right now, wrenching away is nothing but being a parts changer changing bulbs. And just to put the finishing touches on the red nose so it sticks, are clueless as to knowing AC from DC we go plug it in, plug it in.



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