I think it's more what Schnitz turned off/toggled on is my guess. It has to be something easy. What do you think, Romes?

I too have Romesyndrome, where the disease like to school themselves to recovery. So if Romes is unsuccessful, I'd like to take a crack at it, no charge of course. I'll even pay to ship it back to you just for the tuition at the attempt.

As we say in the industry... Schnitz has a 'comeback.' He eats it and gets out of the flashing business or it's a write-off for taxes he buys you a new ECU and calls it a day. That, or tries a reflash. And before shipping, plugs it into one of the shop bikes. Don't forget to ask to have that test done before shipping.

I can't believe how many flash boxes Justin has sold; no one is crying frozen ECU's. Don is flashing how many? Ivan has his software and is he going broke buying his customers new ECU's? So it has to be a sequence not followed, a toggle the ECU needs reset back on, or vice/verse; something like that.

1. My thought is: Can the ECU flash a phantom code? Yes.
2. My thought is: Is the ECU functioning to read the phantom? Yes, but not well.
3. My thought is: Then if it lights up everything, flashes the dash, spits more codes, the ECU is alive and well. Yes.

So the phone call goes something like this:

Schnitz: Ring-Ring... Yellow?
You Pee'd On me Yes?: I have a no start issue and shall I get you a tissue?

Schnitz: Oh shit, not the You Pee Yes Man. Go around back.
You Pee'd On me Yes?: No, no, I'm out of town, like way out of town. You mailed me my ECU.

Schnitz: Oh shit, not another one. Let me mail you an on line dealer voucher I have an account with.
You Pee'd On me Yes?: You mean it's KeyPut?

Schnitz: Yeah, you put the key in, turn it on, the yellow/green/red lights come on, it's not in chrismass mode, fella.
You Pee'd On me Yes?: How about I mail it back and you burn the shit back to stock and start all over.

Schnitz: Sounds like a plan. Why not drop it in a priority envelope at the USPS.
You Pee'd On me Yes?: How dare you when I work for the competition it's in my 401k to feed the bottom line.

Schnitz: Well, it just so happens in tiny-mini-print it says you eat it, call it racing is racing. Swallow a man pill.
You Pee'd On me Yes?: Oh yeah, I didn't read that part.

Schnitz: You send me a new ECU I'll reflash it no charge.
You Pee'd On me Yes?: Oh cool, where do I swallow?

Yep you are right Toledo - I believe everyone in the flash game has fucked up atleast one ecu.
Hope you get it sorted....

I think it's more what Schnitz turned off/toggled on is my guess. It has to be something easy. What do you think, Romes?

Hub I hate to post Negative comments without knowing what has transpired inside the ECU. I have been unfortunate enough to have been on both sides of that fense. It sucks, End Result is always the same is cases like this. Both parties get the shity end of the stick. Sorry no happy ending.

When the flashing software first became available those of us who jumped in first were playing Russian Roulette. For some of us Wasn't Long before gun went off. Buying a customer a New ECU for something that is not your fault has a bad taste to it. Ask me how I know ??? Let me explain.

ECU's are listed 2012/2014 Almost implies one fits all. Or does it ? i.e.

For the ZX 14 Model years 2006 to 2007 there are 8 different ECUs. But only 4 serial #s, this is a Wow, We now know we have 2 of the Exact same #'s with different sub serial afterwards. The sub # can only been seen after a ECU read.

In other words you have two possible flashes for same Serial #. One is wrong !!!!! Early on we did not know this. How we found out was not good. Hindsight tells me I should have always known that No one buys 30 to 40 ECU's just to do reads.

Now of course as these new ECus pop up, they become known, then listed in order. Seems easy now but it wasn't early on. We the public found the new ecus one at a time. Results were not always favorable and insults began to fly UGH !

For the ZX14 Model years 2008 to 2011 there are 7 ECU's #'s Listed so far I expect to see more as the serial #'s are Not in order.

For the Model year 2012 to 2014 There are now 10 ECU's Listed. Up to recently there was only 9 Interesting enough we Now have two serial numbers exactly the same in this list. So hard would it be for Schnitz to have flashed in the wrong bin file ? Numbers are the same ???? What possibly happened to Ryan could have happened to anyone. Now in Woolich there is the letters CA after California ECU. But once again there Never used to be. Ouch !

21175-0715
21175-0715_CA

I try and track the trouble making #'s but I must admit I really hate being the one to find them. Hurts. Two serial numbers the same Kawis cruel joke.(this is another large discussion).

To date the 3A code has got me once. And also Cam sensor input missing got me once. Both cases New ECU's were purchased. Later updates were made to the software but it was to late for me. Customers don't want the story and I don't blame them. The killer is the down time they suffer. It's wrong but my attempt is to explain how easy it can happen.

Now this may not be the case here. Just maybe a simple reflash. Fingers crossed.

I hope this info helps in some way. Cheers

Toledo...you have a 2014...yes?It has standard ABS braking,yes?Anyone here have the 'settings' for the ABS and NON ABS 2013 Models in their Woolrich Software?

"Now this may not be the case here. Just maybe a simple reflash. Fingers crossed".

It sounds like Toledo got a a 2012 flash or something.Reflash will most likely correct the settings in there.I doubt anything is damaged at all.He needs the 2014 ABS flashing settings.21175CONTROL UNIT-ELECTRONIC CNUS
21175-0838...

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/7/2014 @ 8:39 PM *

Yes standard 2014 abs

Grn I believe the # you are referencing is under the Schnitz racing sticker and I'm not going to remove it till talking with ryan. I'd love to see you pre edited comments if you wouldn't mind PMing them to me.

* Last updated by: toledoUPSguy on 12/7/2014 @ 8:38 PM *

I don't know how to do that...BUT...it sounds like WHOEVER did your flash hooked you up with a flash for a 2012 or 2013 possibly NON-ABS...that's what it sounds like.I say this because I had my 2012 NON-ABS ECU here...and I installed it into my 2013 ABS model...The engine started and ran okay...BUT...the check engine light would not go out...the ABS lamp stayed on...and I THINK the KTRC lamp was also on.Not sure on that though...Now that I think on this...yes...the pwer mode window was also dead.....

The 2014 does come with a non-abs model...I'm thinking THAT's what they flashed it to.Honest mistake IMO.The guy whoever flashed it 'probably' noticed the ABS function was "on"...and simply disabled it...won't hurt a thing...but your abs won't work without that on..But the brakes will work fine.(SH)it happens.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/7/2014 @ 9:07 PM *

Anyone here have the 'settings' for the ABS and NON ABS 2013 Models in their Woolrich Software?

Grn You do not get to choose. Does Not Work that way.

The part number is made up of 3 sections: 21175-0838

First Manufacturer Identifier:

•Suzuki: 32920
•Kawasaki: 21175

Second ECU Part Number:

•Suzuki: -21H60_
•Kawasaki: -0838_

Third Bin File Serial Number:

•Suzuki: _DJ0HSE00
•Kawasaki: _F569146E

With the 2012/2014 we who do the flash do not get to choose the Bin File serial # Only the First Manufacturer along with the ECU part # Serial # is info is blind to us. The assumption(at the present time)is there is only one. 21175-0838......

Doesn't the ECU hook into the software..where it can be accessed?You can read the ECU files that way?Can't you access the windows that have 'on/off' functions>Like 'resetting' the RPM limit...stuff like that?I thought that was what was so good about this Woolrich thing..being able to change the factory settings.It's not able to see the files?

I guess I mean...like the PC softwre...you connect the Powercommander up to your bike...and open the PC(power it on)and you see the mapping of the 'present' map.Using the correct PC that is.

Woolrich doesn't do this?

"21175-0838......"...that should show what's in the ECU...right?Then you change what you want,no?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/8/2014 @ 8:39 AM *

Interesting.
Here is my question. Let me just say this. Leave out the players. Way too many speculations and assumptions to fog the subject. Let us narrow it down to the ECU and it sits in the middle of a round table.

Romes, you are sitting at the table eyeballing that ECU all over yourself. With your experience (up to now)... Could you pick up that ECU and say...

A. Yes, it is recoverable.
B. No, once you see those codes spit, it's a new ECU.

I guess I mean...like the PC softwre...you connect the Powercommander up to your bike...and open the PC(power it on)and you see the mapping of the 'present' map.Using the correct PC that is.

Grn we can see only what the programmer lets us see. Very Basic. Fuel tables, timing, Secondary throttle plates, Top speed check box etc. We can not choose between ABS or Non ABS. Once you pick a ECU # your locked into what has been uploaded for us to use. When we look at the info inside we can see the numbers show all the same for that Gen ECU. The ECU number itself is the only difference and is the key to all these problems. Info we see inside reads all the same.

With your experience (up to now)... Could you pick up that ECU and say...
A. Yes, it is recoverable.
B. No, once you see those codes spit, it's a new ECU.

Can't give A or B. This is truly is a coin toss. If this is a new bin serial number from a 2014 and the input bridge was fragmented because it did not match, I would say No Fixing.

If the flash did not complete and ECU was simply unplugged too early, maybe a simple reflash will fix it. Woolich software has no Diagnostics that we can run to search the files that are not visible to us. I'm not sure who's software Schnitz uses. If it is Woolich get your coin out. I would love to take a look.

"We can not choose between ABS or Non ABS"...okay...I see.Then it sounds almost like...Shnitz(or whoever 'flashed' it) sent him an ECU that wasn't his original(possibly flashed already)...that would be very uncool.There's only TWO ecu's that'll work on that 2014...one a CA model...with ABS...and one a CNUS model...with ABS.I will say here though...if Toledo did not ride the bike for several feet(he said it wouldn't start or something?)then a lit ABS lamp would be normal.

He's probably NOT getting a lot of 2014's in his shop....not yet anyway(always could be wrong;) ).That's why I mentioned about the part number...OR...maybe something as simple as a pin damaged...maybe?Having the lamps light up on his dash...that tells me the ECU is reading the programming...so it IS working.

"search the files that are not visible to us"...well...why aren't they visible?Isn't this software SUPPOSED to be able to see all files in an ECU?That's what it's there for,to see the programming in the factory ECU?And allow changing the programming?If it only allows resetting of basic functions...and fueling/timing stuff...what's so different about it and say,a PC?It would seem strange to me that for strictly diagnostic reasons...that ALL the 'extra' functions(KTRC,ABS and such)couldn't be disabled somehow...doesn't the programming window(s) have check boxes or something there to turn things on or off?I mean...the bike itself(aside from the motor)will work fine without these other 'add-ons'.It doesn't need ABS...it doesn't need KTRC....it'll drive fine without those.

It just seems odd that the woolrich software..great as it is...wouldn't be able to allow access to something like an ABS on/off mode...I mean...what if a guy wanted to confirm whether his ABS lamp was actually assuring him it was working correctly or not.Rather than possibly replacing an abs unit...my 2012 ECU(non abs programmed)worked in my 2013 ABS...however...the system itself did not operate...but the lamp came on...and stayed on.Am I making sense here?All other engine functions worked...the check engine lamp came on and went out after a restart...it did this a few times when I had that 2012 ECU in there.Once the engine achieved operating temps...then it stopped coming on at startup.Kinda strange in itself.The engine temps were also higher with that 2012 ECU in there...but that could have been from it not being set(flashed)as the 2013 was.

I know I'm kinda focusing on the ABS situation...but the lamp indicates the ABS is NOT functioning if it remains on after the bike starts moving.Which kinda means...Toledo's lamp situation either means...he got a flashed ECU from a different model year(switch)OR...his bike didn't move far enough to activate the abs unit.

Did the needles sweep and fuel pump engage at key-on?

IF Toledo could get his front and rear wheels off the ground....have someone spin the front wheel as he spun the rear...then he could see if the ABS actually WAS working...as per his lamp.At least that would narrow down what model year he's got now in there?Maybe he wouldn't even HAVE to spin the front wheel...IDK.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/8/2014 @ 11:42 AM *

Grn I can't ride a bike that won't start. The needles did sweep turning the key on but no fuel pump.

The ECU is on it's way back, they will have it tomorrow. Here is Ryan's reply:

On Monday, December 8, 2014 8:53 AM, Ryan Schnitz <tech@schnitzracing.com> wrote:

Hello Brady. Send it back to us and we’ll give it another go. Sounds like the Reflash didn’t complete. This happens to 1 in 40 ECU’s or so.

Time to cross fingers.

Sounds like the Reflash didn’t complete. This happens to 1 in 40 ECU’s or so.

One in forty? Who knew? Makes no difference. Sounds like he is going to make it right.

I believe everyone in the flash game has fucked up at least one ecu.

I have reprogrammed many ecus in the last year for many different bikes and not one has had a bad flash.

The reason that there are problems is that the tools that are being used alter the original file so that it can be controlled and only be used in the software that is paid for.
Somewhere in the alteration/encryption lies the problem.

If anyone has a "bricked ECU" for this bike, there is a very good chance that I can save it for you
(for a reasonable fee).

Happy Holidays,

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 12/9/2014 @ 4:50 AM *

so that it can be controlled and only be used in the software that is paid for. Somewhere in the alteration/encryption lies the problem.

Ivan how can this be ? Woolich is wide open. All can use and all can see with any software. There is no lock we can place on the ECU ? Not with Woolich anyway. I assume you are talking about ECU Edit. Am I wrong here ?

If anyone has a "bricked ECU" for this bike, there is a very good chance that I can save it for you
(for a reasonable fee).

Sweeet. I've been waiting to hear this for a very long time. This tells me you you must have better software than I Do.

Ok, you say "Bricked". Ivan Can you be more clear. Bricked implies locked out. Woolich has the unlocking ability of encryption locking codes. So getting in is of no concern. Does your software have the ability to Diagnose broken lines of code ?

Reason I'm asking.

I have two ECU's in my possession with the dreaded 3A code. These can Not be fixed properly IMO. Our current software does have a fix for 3A but my belief is this only Mask for the underlying issue.

What it does do is kill the Dash check engine light. So all appears well, world is good,,, BUT,,,, If you ever reflash a new file without the 3A check box in play bikes Check engine light will come back on 5 miles later down the road. The concentration in the fix would appear to be is masking the dash light input, not in actually repairing the ECU.
Which to my knowledge Can't be done with our current software.

IMO a Mask is Not a ECU Repair. I don't like it. What else is hidden in that chain ? If I have any other issue in that chain Check Engine light won't come on as we have a block in play stopping the inputs from being seen. Of course I can see none of what I'm in belief of. So without the proper software to see beyond what's in front of me it's only speculation.

Ivan Can you Flash My ECU'S back to EXACTLY the way they were when new ? If answer is yes that gives me hope there is no damage inside. I do Not want another mask repair. I want to rebuild that broken bridge not hide the brain from seeing it. I want Back to stock.

I will Pay. I know of others that will also pay. This issue has many silent victims.

Ivan how much will this be ?

Ivan cool offer and a reasonable fee would be reasonable.

What are you referring to as a "bricked" ecu?

bricked as in It's only good to be thrown as a brick because its fucked

I don't think it's truly open unless you can view the hard coding and make changes to that. I don't have the Woolrich software but I would imagine that you are playing within the definitions that they have worked to decode for you. Their definitions produce an understandable interface through which certain variables can be changed. Those changes are then converted into the coding that produce the desired results. At least that's how I messed around with my Mitsu ECU in the past.

It astounds me that there's no aftermarket solution that completely mimics the factory interface.

Ivan how can this be ? Woolich is wide open. All can use and all can see with any software. There is no lock we can place on the ECU ? Not with Woolich anyway.

That's what he would like you to think :laugh:
All of the files that are used in his software are altered so that they will only work in his software... this is how he can control what everyone can do with it.
I suspect that's why others (my competitors that don't use that software) get a better result with a PCV.

I assume you are talking about ECU Edit. Am I wrong here ?
I am not familiar with this... Like I have said before... I have my own software and hardware for this... I have access to every part of this ECU. (the software/hardware that you have does not)

Sweeet. I've been waiting to hear this for a very long time. This tells me you you must have better software than I Do.

I have access to every part of the ZX14R ECU

Ok, you say "Bricked". Ivan Can you be more clear. Bricked implies locked out. Woolich has the unlocking ability of encryption locking codes. So getting in is of no concern. Does your software have the ability to Diagnose broken lines of code ?

Reason I'm asking.

I have two ECU's in my possession with the dreaded 3A code. These can Not be fixed properly IMO. Our current software does have a fix for 3A but my belief is this only Mask for the underlying issue.

What it does do is kill the Dash check engine light. So all appears well, world is good,,, BUT,,,, If you ever reflash a new file without the 3A check box in play bikes Check engine light will come back on 5 miles later down the road. The concentration in the fix would appear to be is masking the dash light input, not in actually repairing the ECU.
Which to my knowledge Can't be done with our current software.

I can install a 100% original file into a corrupted ECU.
If the ECU has hardware damage, obviously installing any file to it will yield the same result.

IMO a Mask is Not a ECU Repair. I don't like it. What else is hidden in that chain ? If I have any other issue in that chain Check Engine light won't come on as we have a block in play stopping the inputs from being seen. Of course I can see none of what I'm in belief of. So without the proper software to see beyond what's in front of me it's only speculation.
This is exactly why I wouldn't put my name on anything that isn't my own.

Ivan Can you Flash My ECU'S back to EXACTLY the way they were when new ?
Of course :)

If answer is yes that gives me hope there is no damage inside. I do Not want another mask repair. I want to rebuild that broken bridge not hide the brain from seeing it. I want Back to stock.

I will Pay. I know of others that will also pay. This issue has many silent victims.

Ivan how much will this be ?
$75.00 each + return shipping for a stock original file

My own files are not available from me to any ECU that will be used in your software

I also can unlock and install a stock file into any ZX14R/ZX10R ECU that is locked from another tuner.

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 12/9/2014 @ 6:53 PM *

"It astounds me that there's no aftermarket solution that completely mimics the factory interface"...factory interface?.What interface Hag?...from how it sounds...someone CAN totally 'erase' the factory files and reload a factory file back in...?????

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/9/2014 @ 7:00 PM *

Not from what Ivan is telling us.

Woolich only allows it's own translation of the stock binary. Once you flash... you're getting Justin's interpretation... not KHIs.

I'm taking yet another step back from this flashing gig.

I'm taking yet another step back from this flashing gig.

Why ?? I have zero negative feedback.

Should I take this personally? :)

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 12/9/2014 @ 7:18 PM *

Why ?? I have zero negative feedback.
Should I take this personally? :)

I knew you were a good sort, Ivan... game for a laugh anyway.

To your point: our in house tuner Sebastian is using a "Wooly box" and he has zero negative feedback either. NOW I'm learning the "Wooly box" writes it's interpretation of the KHI code. This has the possibility of bricking ECUs.

As my esteemed colleague Hub would say, "How close am I?"