Ivan's unsolicited response from another thread:

RE: Flash Negatives!
07/03/15 3:07 AM

Anyone flashing these bikes except myself,unleashed, and Don are using Wooly boxes and software.

Changing the format of the original file so it works only in your software so you can control who uses it is part of the problems. The other problems come from interface boxes that are improperly designed And can physically damage board components.

Anyone who uses it is handcuffed to all the limitations and problems associated with it.

That's why I don't have any problems with damaged ECU'S and I suspect that Don doesn't either.

We both have our own software / hardware.

We both do not alter the file in any way.

I have never had any problems with any ECU that I have reprogrammed.

Ivan

I read this. I was confused by it. If they are not flashing the ECU then they are false advertising. Flashing is a specific term that means a specific things is being done. To interpret what I think Ivan is saying is, he does not download the ECU's image (bin file) the modify it, then upload it. This would be a flash. Maybe his software is able to interrogate the ECU directly and modify settings... which I agree would be the superior way of modifying the ECU although it is not flashing the ECU.

Ivan's unsolicited response from another thread:
RE: Flash Negatives!
07/03/15 3:07 AM
Anyone flashing these bikes except myself,unleashed, and Don are using Wooly boxes and software.
Changing the format of the original file so it works only in your software so you can control who uses it is part of the problems. The other problems come from interface boxes that are improperly designed And can physically damage board components.
Anyone who uses it is handcuffed to all the limitations and problems associated with it.
That's why I don't have any problems with damaged ECU'S and I suspect that Don doesn't either.
We both have our own software / hardware.
We both do not alter the file in any way.
I have never had any problems with any ECU that I have reprogrammed.

Ivan
I read this. I was confused by it. If they are not flashing the ECU then they are false advertising. Flashing is a specific term that means a specific things is being done. To interpret what I think Ivan is saying is, he does not download the ECU's image (bin file) the modify it, then upload it. This would be a flash. Maybe his software is able to interrogate the ECU directly and modify settings... which I agree would be the superior way of modifying the ECU although it is not flashing the ECU.

Whatever Ivan modifies it works, it might not be a "flash" but it is certainly an adjustment that makes a difference. It's basically playing semantics, Flash, adjustment, modification.... Regardless its better than winding up with a Cbrick... Ask Wheelie about his ECU that got bricked, atleast he has a $500+ paperweight!

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Ask Wheelie about his ECU that got bricked

Wee, am I to assume you ate this story? I don't care who's fault it is, you were going fishing and trying out your new anchor? Say it ain't so!

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What I meant by not altering the file was:

Not altering it from it's original so it will only work in a particular software.

In order for there to be control over who can flash, and how many ECU's can be flashed, the BIN files have to be altered so that they will only work within the software.
Also the ECU is tied to the original computer that flashed it by it's own unique password... in order to be flashed by another computer, the ECU must be first unlocked (new password) before it can be flashed.

I am not tied to any company or software, and the ECU's that I reprogram (flash) use the files in their original format (not encrypted so they can be dispensed/controlled)

I can also unlock and reflash a "brick" for the ECU's from this bike (2012 & up) with files in the original format.
Whether or not it will fix the problem is determined by whether or not there is a corrupted file, or physical damage to the board.
Bikes that have Denso ecu's are forever tied to the original flashing computer with Wooly software and cannot be unlocked by anyone.

The 3A code is physical damage.... whether or not it poses a performance problem is unknown to me as I have never tested a ZX14R with that problem... I did however install a 100% stock file into an ECU that Romans sent me and the code remained... This means physical damage outside the ROM.

Once again, I have never had any problem/damage with any ECU that I programmed/flashed... I anticipated these problems before I got involved with my own equipment and made sure that I would not be at another company's mercy so that things like this would not happen with my customers.
Being in this business as long as I have, my experience has shown me all it takes is a few problems like this and your reputation goes in the toilet.

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 7/4/2015 @ 5:44 AM *

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my experience has shown me all it takes is a few problems like this and your reputation goes in the toilet.

That puts Justin's software sitting right on the porcelain ring.

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Thank's Ivan for clearing the "Bricked ECU" issue.

I'm very happy with my ECU flashed by Ivan. Everything works as it should...after reading this I really don't think I would ever get reflashed by a Woolich tuner or purchase the Woolich software for the 14R at least...Seems like a great idea, just not executed properly for this application. I would imagine it is better to edit a file directly in the ECU, not override it with another "edited" file. Then loading a fuel map in this edited file could pose more problems? And other bikes like the 10R seem to have less issues with the Woolich software than the 14R? ...strange

Thanks Ivan. Great feedback!

But I do disagree with there is no risk flashing with whatever technologies you, Guhl, or ECUUnleashed use if you are actually performing ECU flashing (which you are now that it's clear). Flashing is flashing, and it's impossible to guarantee any flash will be successful. I'm in IT, have flashed 100s of things from mainboards to optical drives to other devices. In my time, I've had one mainboard flash fail and it bricked that board. Other than replacing the chip (or hot flashing it) that mainboard would not post, start up, whatever to even try to reflash.

I'm not sure exactly how ECUs work, but I would assume it would be in a very similar way. When flashing, the ECU is started to the point where flash memory area is accessible. However, if mid update you pulled the plug it would fail and I highly doubt you'd be able to start the ECU flashing process again. Again, I don't know the particulars of ECUs and their configuration. Maybe their like a lot of modern mainboards which have a copy of the flash memory area so that if the original is corrupted it'll fail over to the backup copy. I doubt it, but that could be the case... considering the expense of ECUs they should come with fail over stuff but it doesn't seem necessary given the application and since they are not owner servicable parts.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 7/4/2015 @ 8:56 AM *

I've never had a bad file upload or any damaged ecu ....ever.
In all the bikes that I have tuned and all the mail-in customers.

Every bike that's used for R&D gets flashed more than 300 times during identification testing and tuning ... having the proper equipment ensures no damage and no errors.

Ivan

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But I do disagree with there is no risk flashing with whatever technologies you, Guhl, or ECUUnleashed use if you are actually performing ECU flashing (which you are now that it's clear).

I buy a racing kit-ECU from mother tea. She says, flashit all day long. Your chip set is going to breakdown come 65,000 times; are how many times you can flash the crystal chip. So go burn-baby-burn.

Flashing is flashing, and it's impossible to guarantee any flash will be successful.

There are logic gates and math calc's to be made. Calc hardware is in place and there are at least 2 are the basic layouts. That's backup after backup or the calc slams a cell line with a + or - as if saying you are out of range. The math countered your move and it still lights off on that burn. That's sort of how the kit works.

Other than replacing the chip (or hot flashing it) that mainboard would not post, start up, whatever to even try to reflash.

That board is the same as lifting the hood of a car and name each part. If you knew who did watt, you could repair it. If the board didn't cook that other side out, but more smoked the chip, it stops there. No other parts are going to be changed, but that one chip that holds the files, etc. I'll figure it out.

if the original is corrupted it'll fail over to the backup copy.

Go to Start-run [type] debug; click ok. When the window pops up, [type] A 100, then press enter. Then [type] INT 13, hit enter. Now [type] debug, hit enter. See how it corrects your code? So you know how to debug the software or remove the corrupt filed is to know the code and the rest is working to clean the files back to zero. First thing is to know how to debug the software, and that is by reloading the windows system as if new out of the box.

Ivan first has to know this code by the manu or the programmer and how to bring the partitions back up all clean, nothing saved but back to ROM. It can't be cooked, or where there is heat, there is smoke. So if it was cooking or over processing or a hertz spiked, I don't know if flashing is going to cook a part? No for now. Could it corrupt a file? Possible. Is there one more move if not cooked/corrupt/? is the other? What are we missing?

Where is Justin? If this alleged software is bricking (some) 14's, not zx10's is it? I'd have second thoughts. Unless Justin can explain it and his feedback so far?

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The ECU probably has no failover or redundancy in the chipset. I am not completely sure, but there may lie the issue. In the actual upload process of said flash. Maybe that's why it only happens once in a while.

I think in short Ivan said he will never make a Cbrick...lol (sorry wheelie). It seems that the thread on the other forum has turned up 3 Cbricks... I am guessing a few more will turn up ;-)

* Last updated by: seno on 7/4/2015 @ 1:32 PM *

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If it's a 3A code, it can't be fixed. ...maybe the FI light can be turned off, but the problem will remain.

If it's non-responsive, (no fuel pump w/key on) there's a chance to revive it by unlocking it and sending an unaltered stock file.

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 7/4/2015 @ 2:04 PM *

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Lately I have been working on my Mustang PCM or ECU as we call it in the ZX14 ...What I have found in a very short time is there are a lot of tuners out there , some good and some bad ..What I have learned is the PCM or ECU has a base file that needs to remain in the ECU .. We can add or remove numbers but the base number has to be there and remain there ..Mustang guys call it the stock file , we call it the BIN file ..Same same .. Now I have had some problems flashing my Mustang PCM .. The problem comes from the tuner not using the right strategy codes, Each PCM has it's own strategy even if it's the same year and model mustang .. If the strategy code is different it stacks the tune on top of the stock tune, it also puts numbers in the map in the wrong place ..This happen to me and the car did run ok but triggered a low oil pressure warning light .. Sounds much like the code 3A that some have got after flashing .. Now in order to remove that light the PCM has to go to Ford and use the factory IDS tool to reload the stock file from the Cars VIN number ..Now i know woolich came up with a fix for the 3a code ( a patch at best ).. I say patch because it doesn't fix the real problem that is the base file is damaged or has been removed.. Romans testing has showed that the ECU may look to be ok after the 3a code box has been checked but it is not ..Fuel AFRs and Timing are wrong on 3 different ECUs he tested that should all be the same .. Just as in my mustang PCM it can be fixed and retuned to stock if you have the right tools and if the damage is not to bad .. Well guess what , we don't have the right tools ..Clearly Ivan and Don at this point are not having problems with their ECU tunes ..So that leaves one cause for this problem ..

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There is no base file (as you refer to) in this ecu (ROM) The ROM is the whole thing....the KDS tool cannot restore it....

The only way to turn the FI light off is to write a patch of code that will prevent the light from coming on from the damage.

Car flashes are different and can upload a partial file and if the size and other parameters (checksum, etc) aren't correct, problems happen... (car won't start.... possible brick)

Ivan

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Ivan thank you for taking the time to respond here. My original flash was done by Schnitz and I got the non responsive problem, no start or fuel pump and all dash lights flashing. Schnitz reflashed it and it seems (???) that all is well. With what you said about the ECU being locked if I wanted to send it to you to be reflashed can you do it or is
Schnitz the only one who can flash it?

To all reading this, hope you all have a great 4th.

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I can unlock it no problem.

I've done a bunch just like yours.

Happy 4th to you as well.

Ivan

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Well Ivan if that is the case and it seems it is ..The ECU is now a door stop or a paper weight ..

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Ok, I've looked deep into this issue since my ecu had a problem. What I have found is that even tho said ecu is p/n say 0715 or 0712, should be same say 0715 ecu is a calirornia only spec bike, or said 0712 ecu is say us or 49 state model bike. I have seen same part number ecu used for European and Australia spec bikes. Are they the same?? Can say any bin file be used or program tool know the difference of each ecu before flashing? ?? Or do you need to know beforehand of the specifics of the actual bike beforehand of flashing the ecu?? I would say yes. If you don't know you run the risk of damaging an ecu with wrong file used to flash an ecu. Unless you have a different software that only modify certain areas say of any given ecu.

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Testing has shown if you take a Non Californian ECU and plug it into a Californian bike the code is 3A.

Like wise if you take a Californian ECU and plug it into a Non Californian bike code is 3A

Now, this information should also tell you the bin file is NOT the same for Both ECU's. Also should tell you the software writer made a very bad assumption which caused Romans and I'm sure many others to be painted with some very unnecessary grief. OUCH ! Lets not go there it's in the past.

What is not 100% confirmed is if the ECU is still good ???? In California or vice versa. Work in progress.

What is 100% confirmed in my own testing is you Can NOT ! Flash it back to stock once corrupted. Sent to Ivan. Ivan also could not fix it with his superior software.

I'm still still still testing. I need more time. Need both bikes.

Also Testing if high mode is fucked can I still make low mode into high. Some tests have shown promise.

I'm not going to give up in any case, even if some of you thought I might.

Now if Ivan would just sell me the software he is using ? I know I know. Answer was clear I'm never getting it. Also Ivan you must know my OCD will never let me stop trying to get it lol Maybe when you sleep ?

Anyway, If a new flash was on your plate and you were recently scared off by internet BS Give Ivan a Call. He tried which was all that counts in my book. Cheers

Rick

The part number determines which file is installed other than that they are all the same.

At this point I've said enough here. ...it's not in my best interest to identify and fix this problem.

I do feel bad for the victims that are affected by it. ...truly a shame...if there is anything that I can do to help the members that are affected call me on the phone during business hours to discuss your individual problem. Not all can be helped, but maybe some cases can be.

I wonder if the people who are affected will hold the offending parties to the same standard as they hold me to and rip them to pieces in public like others have done to me ??

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 7/5/2015 @ 3:57 AM *

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It would be nice if each flasher would state the failure rate they've seen.

I still think we're talking about the ant or two that runs in a circle amidst a hill of good workers.

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Ok, I've looked deep into this issue since my ecu had a problem. What I have found is that even tho said ecu is p/n say 0715 or 0712, should be same say 0715 ecu is a calirornia only spec bike, or said 0712 ecu is say us or 49 state model bike. I have seen same part number ecu used for European and Australia spec bikes. Are they the same?? Can say any bin file be used or program tool know the difference of each ecu before flashing? ?? Or do you need to know beforehand of the specifics of the actual bike beforehand of flashing the ecu?? I would say yes. If you don't know you run the risk of damaging an ecu with wrong file used to flash an ecu. Unless you have a different software that only modify certain areas say of any given ecu.

712 is AU/WVTA/GB/INDONESIA with Immobilizer
714 is US/49 '12 no Immobilizer
715 is US/CA '12 no Immobilizer
838 is US/49 '13+ no Immobilizer (ABS/No ABS)
839 is US/CA '13+ no Immobilizer (ABS/No ABS)

AFAIK at this point in time 8xx is the part numbers in current Gen 2 14Rs, obviously that could change with '16s or whatever next revision of models.

Ivan also could not fix it with his superior software.

Well, the ones he brought back to life were not burned out. I thought it more the software side than physically cooked. So the board is not rendered useless and Wee, that's a good thing. Unless, here wee go; I'll assume that unit was passed around, wink-wink, came back bricked, because this was one of the ECU's Ivan could not debrick, I don't know?

Can-0-worms again... How many bricks to unbricks are C's? How many 14 bricks are there? How many 14 ECU's to bricks has Ivan revived?

Six would know what I mean. I'm back to physically writing code I hit start-run-[type>debug-ok, see it? That's where you overwrite... If I knew the building of the platform anshit and where to look or what to write? Fun shit right there. See where I'm going?

...and rip them to pieces in public like others have done to me ??

Guilty? Slowly I turn, step buy step of the sin-say, my Ivan/gad you ate watt I chewed off you. My bikes have been wired up due to your intro to 1999 and my exit [7 years out of the loop], then came back shocked as how the bike changed forever. Years of searching for the steps because of you and thank you for that; watt a load off my foot.

So, guilty am I to chase the abstract, finally figured out the physical [magnetic] moves, the truth tables, the IC (huge clue) the flip-flop; the flop; which turns the light offandango; the oh it so hertz signal when it does. And now for the software part. Yeah, so here I am trying to correlate a wire ping and some instinct told me so. Now the flash, and there is silence about how many bricks are out there. But here I am again trying to walk the abstract, the ECU is not physically burned, but a file is. There is your difference... GUILTY me ripping up the abstract once again.

Only difference is, I do not place the person on the red carpet. The no show does. It's that the abstract has died, the other side has left the propaganda machine back at the building = No backup to the abstract. So, who is getting beat up are the abstraconcepts.

Tesla spun in his cough'INN I laughed so hard... did I build a web around it.

Ivan has history. Look at him now. The Uncorker. Like Romes said, Ivan is at least repairing damage. Ahead of the curve again!!!

Smooth me out Go see Ivan.

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/5/2015 @ 8:15 AM *

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I haven't brought any back to life yet.

The only damaged ones that came into my hands are the ones that Rick sent to me.
(Still owes me the shipping money) :)

I have unlocked a bunch and flashed them with no problems...

Ivan

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