They didn't intend for street guys to get out there and kill themselves.So they tamed her down a bit.

You can bet Kawasaki is taking ALL this potential owner feedback and such VERY Seriously(they've got a while yet to get this bike 'adjusted' to what guys really want)

I think they have it all planned out already. They probably don't want everyone to be screaming that Kawasaki made a 300 hp bike for the street. What they want everyone to say is, "Kawasaki made a 1000cc engine capable of 210hp. It's not any faster than the ZX-10. Just an ordinary liter bike like the Honda and the Yammi and the Suz. (Heck, it must be a lot slower than that BMW!)." Those are the facts that are being released. ...but the facts will take a big turn once owners start messing with the H2.

---

Hmmm...could be...IDK.But seeing this model as a limited production bike...and no more orders after the Dec deadline...it means that (relatively)few will have it...so it's not like 'this is just a 1000 Literbike"....it won't be attainable unless a guy sells his.I think Kawasaki will be updating this bike at some level for the guys who have it.IDK what kind of 'improvements' it could possibly get...but Kawasaki wouldn't have to like...redesign anything(for this bike)on a mass scale.Anyone not having this machine will NOT be able to order parts.Refitting could(I imagine)be pretty simple seeing they're making only to order...and that won't be very many..relatively speaking.This bike has a future...I think Kawasaki is pushing the GP door open here.We know right now it isn't allowed for track racing...but if these other competitors step up their game...things could change radically...Kawasaki is now already there...it's catch up time for the others.Doesn't matter to me...I'll never track this bike...well...maybe sometime just for fun...but for the street...as is...I'm feeling very good about it's performance.Never having a literbike...this whole deal for me is gonna really be exciting.

And we have yet to see it's real output at the drags...I think it's gonna blow a lot of minds.When you start adding up all the trick technology in this machine...really found in nothing else out there(similarities..yes)but full blown Kawasaki tech...it's really gonna shine.

Unless I misunderstood your "what THEY want guys to say" part...the street version isn't gonna reach 300hp...mid 200's..I think so...We know it's all in the wrist anyway...I would say...just from MY perspective(course I'm not 20 years old)...I doubt most owners of this bike are gonna WANT to try and really push this bird ON THE STREET.It's just too quick.I could imagine it getting away from a guy VERY quickly under the right circumstances.Even with all the electronics aboard.Those circuit vids do not show even remotely what this bike is gonna be able to do.Those pilots were reigning those bikes in.

My opinion...the H2 will outperform those other literbikes in the handling dept very nicely.The power delivery of this bike is incredibly quick...and not 'just' at 5 or 6K.You downshift this thing and punch it...it's gonna kill anything around it...that's my thoughts.I see the mechanical technology with this bike...coupled with the engine response...no way will anything be able to keep up...I don't care if 'they' do weigh somewhat less.You drop some poundage from it...it'll be sitting right in the sweet spot.(not that it isn't already considering everything going on with it).

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/2/2014 @ 2:43 PM *

'We use only one throttle plate so you are more a fly-by-wire, as we take our telemetry and match our electronics, or better yet, 'balance our system' so you, JoeA Squiddy, will not be able to hack into the fly move. There is no way you could match the mapping as even as a throttle opening and let the sub catch up. No, we will limp your ass if you make the attempt. So slower is the hack attempt.'

Signed,

Harry Handcuffs over at Heavy Industries

---

Harry Handcuffs!!!! I love it but I'd rather my fuzzy cuffs. :)

---

Unless I misunderstood your "what THEY want guys to say"

They (Kaw) wants people to say it's a normal liter bike for the street for insurance purposes and to appease law enforcement and the general non-sportbike riding public. They had to make the H2R so H2 owners had some idea of what the H2 was really meant to be but could not be from the factory. I think insurance is going to be high already but can you imagine what it would be if Kawasaki made the H2 with another 70 hp? I'm sure at least that much is in there. I can't see why they would make a 210 hp bike with a super charger when they already did that twice without a supercharger.

---

Rook wrote:

"I can't see why they would make a 210 hp bike with a super charger when they already did that twice without a supercharger."

That is hard to understand, if that were the case.

I think the H2 is, as has been stated, capable of alot more than 210, and its being advertised and promoted as a "mere" 210 for other reasons.

"I can't see why they would make a 210 hp bike with a super charger when they already did that twice without a supercharger."

That is hard to understand, if that were the case.

I think the H2 is, as has been stated, capable of alot more than 210, and its being advertised and promoted as a "mere" 210 for other reasons.

Not sure why you believe this. H2 hasn't exceeded any street expectations to justify any kept secrets at this point. Price is high some were expecting high teens, weight was much more than anticipated most were expecting a light weight, most were expecting a supersport not something basically competing against 14R.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 12/2/2014 @ 7:41 PM *

All good opinions.

I think the idea(which I previously entertained)about 'keeping this bike's performance numbers downplayed to appease Law Enforcement' is...at this point...not in the equation.They can't stop it from being bought and ridden.This is a performance machine.I love my 14...but I do believe the H2 is not gonna be for competing against it.The 14(IMO)will just be spooling up into it's HP/torque range while this bike is already in it's high performance capabilities and flying well ahead.That's just my impression.I've watched recently some Drag videos of the 14...great as they are...and record times...I do believe the H2 is far and away much quicker and stronger.You see how 'long' it takes those draggers to shift up while powering down the strips.To hit the meat of their engines.For those record times.From the videos I've seen about the H2...and how it's performing on a dyno...it isn't gonna need those 'longer' times to hit it's performance curves.I don't think it'll be 'competing' with the 14...it'll be in a class of it's own...well ahead of a 14...hope me saying this doesn't piss anyone off....I LOVE my 14.And I don't in any way consider it a 'lesser' bike.It's not in what it was designed to do.

You have to take into account the comparos between the newest 1000's.Okay...so some make 210 HP(maybe even a bit more)...WHEN do they make that?That's the difference.And like any performance engine...those HP numbers are variable.Meaning...mods.I think the sophistication of this H2 package is gonna be a serious wake-up call for the others.Now that this factory supercharger has arrived with all it's attendant electronic aids...they're gonna be hard pressed to be able to 'keep up'(and I don't mean speed wise)and produce a similar package for a competitive price.Since this H2 is only gonna be streetable,or drag strip...they may just figure.."what the hell...we don't NEED to try and compete with this one shot wonder'...that certainly isn't gonna take the fun out of owning this bike.I could care less about tracking or dragging.And I think a lot of guys who've ordered this street version may feel the same way.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/2/2014 @ 8:15 PM *

From the videos I've seen about the H2...and how it's performing on a dyno...it isn't gonna need those 'longer' times to hit it's performance curves

I haven't lingered over the videos like some of you but the guy does seem to shift at pretty quick intervals on the dyno. Maybe he wasn't hitting peak rpm? I saw one video of a dyno run that was not done at WOT which would actually make it more impressive to fly through the gears. Maybe it's gearing? DOes this thing have an extra tall first gear and 2-6 are all very close??? That would be very much in character for a track bike. Should be interesting. One thing almost certain, if it makes the same peak hp at a little higher rpm as the 14R, and less peak torque at 3,000 rpm higher....sure seems to me it will be a little slower...even if it is a bit lighter. But that's the bike as it comes from the factory. Ther'll be a few sneaky loose ends Kaw leaves hanging for speed freaks who want to get the most out of this bike.

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/2/2014 @ 9:18 PM *

---

I've always known and expected the H2 will outperform 14Rs. That's just progress. The H2 is the new KOTH, the new flagship sportbike for Kaw (well I guess maybe H2R is technically...but whatever). I never have, and don't have problems with that. I'm sure the H2 will be a great bike. It will be faster than 14s straight line and cornering, just as the flagship should be.

But when it comes to what we were expecting it's got less power, more weight, cost more, and probably what's worse is limited production. I would've really loved the H2 if it ended up being the lightweight supersport track ripper we were expecting (don't blame "us", blame Kaw, they're the ones that put out all the track vids). Would've absolutely been astounding at that point. Again, it'll be a great bike no doubt, it certainly won't suck, it just won't be in a lot of peoples opinions what it should've been.

If H2 isn't competing against 14Rs and Busa's, what's it competing against? There's no way you can tell me it's competition is lightweight supersports. Open classers are all that's left.

loose ends, loose ends!

Grn, start researching how your gonna get your hands on one of those H2R pipes. LOL Actually, I'd just ride it and enjoy it for a year until we find out how those loose ends get tied up.

---

Here's your answer it's obviously being downplayed if you look at the pictures of the bike it has a 14k redline and the hp is being advertised at 11k. Reading between the lines that means they are not stating that it is either being factory derated just like the 10r is where a ecu remap cures the hp curve. Look at the 10r from the same post the h2 has 18% more torque multiply the 210 by that it's 247 at the real power peak of say 13500 rpm. I think with a remap and a muffler and that should be the real story. It's got to be it's a hot 1000 with a supercharger.
H2 210bhp@11000 133nm@10500 curb weight 238kg

"But when it comes to what we were expecting"...and what might that be?300+HP on a 400lb frame?I'm glad I wasn't expecting ANYTHING.It'll make riding it that much more enjoyable;)

Some of these comments(not specifically HERE)about 'performance letdowns' remind me of Ronald Reagan's famous quote..."I've noticed all the people pro abortion have ALREADY been born"...I've noticed all the people poo-pooing this bike haven't bought one.Have no intention of buying one,and have VERY little real info that they're posting around as 'facts'..."worried about weight"...."where will it fit in"..."makes such and such HP"..."can't do this"..."can't do that".Personally...IDCare about any of that...I just KNOW this machine is gonna be one helluva ride...I'll never approach it's capabilities...THAT I like;)Not to mention...it's destined to be a historic Motorcycling Achievement.This bike is NOT gonna disappoint...no way...no how.I'm waiting for the reviews to come out within a few months...the REAL reviews by REAL riders and REAL world riding.That's what's gonna be fun with all this...besides the ride;)

BTW...Mr Kawnow seems to have a nice healthy understanding of what's what with this motor...;)It's really not so hard to see if you're looking in the right direction.

They didn't design this bike to replace the 14 family.It's a Flagship 1000.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/2/2014 @ 11:05 PM *

"But when it comes to what we were expecting"...and what might that be?300+HP on a 400lb frame?I'm glad I wasn't expecting ANYTHING.It'll make riding it that much more enjoyable;)

Most people, including people here were expecting 225 hp and a lightweight race oriented frame. Again, don't blame me. I'm not the marketing director of Kaw that said to make a bunch of race track teaser vids. Probably the biggest let down for me was the thought this was going to be a production bike, because it was also supposed to represent the future of smaller displacement, more fuel efficient forced induction motorcycles. Don't you remember the first rumors were it would be a 600, and making 200-225 hp?

lol regarding poo-pooing, I don't like it enough to buy one for the exact reasons I've stated. That you do is fantastic, I'm looking forward to hearing about it (somewhat) and hope that it's the best bike you've ever owned. It probably will be! I love the 14R, pretty much everything about it. But I'm not a die-hard Kaw fan that all I will own the rest of my life is Kawasakis. Maybe someday, but not right now anyway.

Don't read between the lines on my post, I pretty much state things explicitly and as expressed before am more of a numbers & facts guy than the hippy feel good type. If I thought it sucked, I would say so. What I have said just reflects reality of what most thought we were going to get espeially when it actually was announced it would be a liter bike, and not a 600.

Probably the biggest let down for me was the thought this was going to be a production bike, because it was also supposed to represent the future of smaller displacement, more fuel efficient forced induction motorcycles. Don't you remember the first rumors were it would be a 600, and making 200-225 hp? Now that was exciting shit!

Personally I think the H2/2R will be the first of a line of supercharged 'production' machines but priced for the masses. The 2R is a showpiece, an apex machine, like Kawasaki saying "This is what we can do,we have the technology" JMO

"Not sure why you believe this. H2 hasn't exceeded any street expectations to justify any kept secrets at this point. Price is high some were expecting high teens, weight was much more than anticipated most were expecting a light weight, most were expecting a supersport not something basically competing against 14R"

The price is right where it should be. For thins kind of technology and components show me another 1000cc bike with a super charger. Thinking this bike would be in the high teens is not realistic. They have added a SC on a totally new motor design with a warranty. It's right where I was thinking it would be. And thinking it was going to be 225HP in a 400 lbs package after adding the components that they have would never happen unless the thing was built from titanium...... She will perform and will be the perfect blen between the 14R and the 10R....I love riding my 10 but anymore that 150 miles is painful, my 14 is awesome for sure and I love her but after riding the 10 your left wanting more performance without the harshness of the 10. I think this is exzactly what we are going to get.....not a track bike or a 2,0000 mile touring bike but the right blend of both. "Flag Ship" ??

---

The price is right where it should be. For thins kind of technology and components show me another 1000cc bike with a super charger. Thinking this bike would be in the high teens is not realistic. They have added a SC on a totally new motor design with a warranty. It's right where I was thinking it would be. And thinking it was going to be 225HP in a 400 lbs package after adding the components that they have would never happen unless the thing was built from titanium...... She will perform and will be the perfect blen between the 14R and the 10R....I love riding my 10 but anymore that 150 miles is painful, my 14 is awesome for sure and I love her but after riding the 10 your left wanting more performance without the harshness of the 10. I think this is exzactly what we are going to get.....not a track bike or a 2,0000 mile touring bike but the right blend of both. "Flag Ship" ??

First before any of continue to preach like you're something special, why don't you read through this thread? Please be sure to note the dates and the comments I made. http://www.riderforums.com/ninja-h2/83454-h2-cost.html

And what's "Flag Ship"?? I assume you're unclear of what that means, or you're like "what are you stupid..lol flagship whaa?? Are you sure you're ready for this bike? You do know the 14R was the previous flagship sportbike for Kawasaki don't you?

The bike in question is apparently called the Ninja H2, and it would ostensibly be Kawasaki's flagship superbike – a place currently taken by the Ninja ZX-14R with its 1.4-liter inline-four and Ferrari Testarossa styling.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/09/04/kawasaki-supercharged-ninja-h2-intermot-video-teaser-motorcycle/

The price is right where it should be. Thinking this bike would be in the high teens is not realistic.

Sure it is. Oil is cheaper. Besides, when it comes to electronics, they have to keep up with the italians. It's a teen bike for sure... down the road. It would be a waste to shelf an engine like this.

You are going to buy the world's fastest accelerating production bike. This is now mother tea's, 'top model.' The 14 is/was long in the tooth years ago. They sure are not about to slow down a model, especially a 'top model.'

---

http://youtu.be/5tHCVU1ctg8

Might be time for a duc?!

A bit less claimed hp but more claimed torque in a bike weighing 157 lbs less?? Even if the figures are crank vs rear tire; that's impressive. All the electronics of course, but I haven't seen a price tag yet.

Guessing by the 1199's of 2014, that we are at least in the 20 to 25 K (US)range, though, for the 1299's when they go on the market.

Also got this coming from Ducati:

Note the rpm range for the torque figures of the Ducatis in comparison to the H2. The H2 figure quoted is just at 98 ft-lbs (133 nm); both the ducs are higher, the 1299 significantly (8 ft-lbs).

I am hoping (guessing) that the figures for the H2 are understated as others have suggested. Surely the H2 will be unique for its own attributes with that paint and the supercharger and the style, but I think I'd rather have a 1299 maybe, although, it will be a bit more cramped for a guy my height. The base model should be "cheaper" than the H2 and with 150 plus less poundage than the Kawi, easier for me to deal with while still recovering my former strength following the extensive surgery this summer.

I visited my Ducati dealer this am and my Kawi dealer this pm. I know the 1199 fits me and I know that my Kawi dealer has an H2 coming in soon. One has been ordered through him and I hope to get a good look at it before its delivered.

Ducati.org forums section has all the 2015 news, if you are interested in reading more. The 1299 will have basically the same ergonomics as the 1199 with a few little tweaks that may make it a tad roomier to boot. No siting up, though, for you guys that use handle bar risers on your ZX14. The Duc requires strong back extenders and a laid forward riding style.

Not taking anything away from the achievement that is the H2; just noting the numbers for comparison.

Cheers,

* Last updated by: PaulAB on 12/3/2014 @ 11:04 PM *

---

Sounds like a very good track bike...I think for me though...a more 'aggressive' ergo style would not be good.Even though the H2 has 'similar' ergos to the 10R...I do think I'll be okay with it.From the pics I've gleaned over...the seating on the H2 IS flatter than the 14...which is a good thing (for me).You know..if it's too uncomfortable or something and can't be somehow 'modded' to BE comfortable...I won't be keeping it.Regardless of how cool it is;)I need something I can RIDE...course,I have my 14R...that won't be going anywhere...

The Duc sounds like a very good pick for a track bike;)I can't do that...my lower back just won't take the twisting and trying to hang off...I've tried...just too much stress on it.

I modded my 14 seat to be flatter...it really turned out well...made a seriously big difference in long hours riding.Along with my Genmars.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/4/2014 @ 7:48 AM *

"I am hoping (guessing) that the figures for the H2 are understated as others have suggested. Surely the H2 will be unique for its own attributes with that paint and the supercharger and the style, but I think I'd rather have a 1299 maybe, although, it will be a bit more cramped for a guy my height. The base model should be "cheaper" than the H2 and with 150 plus less poundage than the Kawi,"

Wake up PaulAB the figures your quoting are for a dry weight bike have you ever rode a dry weight bike? No because it has no oil battery or fuel etc. Also have you ever seen a race between spec sheets? No because claims on paper don't equate to riding a bike. There is no way on earth a non supercharged 1000 will even be close to a supercharged one the 60 or 80 lbs difference will help it keep up figuring that after losing some weight from the exhaust it might be closer to actual weight but even if it is not the forty or so more horsepower won't be overcome by any Ducati or BMW or whatever. Another item is no one is mentioning the torque spread of a supercharged engine usually as soon as the throttle is opened more power is had and instantaneously felt.

* Last updated by: kawnow on 12/4/2014 @ 1:36 PM *

The kerb or 'wet' weight of a 1299 Panigale S is 190.5kg (420lb). Don't know why people get hung up on dry weights, they don't mean a whole lot.
Also don't forget the weight of the rider has a much bigger influence on the power to weight ratio, hence acceleration, than it does in a car. A ride who weighs in at 100lbs more than the next guy will always be at a disadvantage.

"First before any of continue to preach like you're something special, why don't you read through this thread? Please be sure to note the dates and the comments I made. http://www.riderforums.com/ninja-h2/83454-h2-cost.html
And what's "Flag Ship"?? I assume you're unclear of what that means, or you're like "what are you stupid..lol flagship whaa?? Are you sure you're ready for this bike? You do know the 14R was the previous flagship sportbike for Kawasaki don't you?"

Hey Vic it's ok I'm sure you'll be ok at some point..... This is all for fun but if your taking this all so serious you should prolly get a job as you must have nothing else to do..... As for me stupid? I'd say yes....been riding riding for over 35 years and raced 10 of those.... Owen 6 bikes that are payed for and enjoy every day I have with no hate for anyone...So as for being stupid not sure but I might be???

---

LOL, thanks for the "wake up call" guys: I had totally fallen asleep on my Pani and forgotten that these things need fluids to run!

The only comparisons that matter in the end are made on the track; time will tell what the various acceleration markers are and the lap time achievable.

I was only speaking for myself and considering which bike seemed likely to fit my needs (wants) best for the $ outlay. Personally, I'd rather have a Lightning that either of these bikes (or any other for that matter) but I won't spend 40k on a mc.

Seriously, the only thing that needs altering in my last post is that the cost of a 1299 is likely to be closer to the H2 tariff that 20K.

Once again, cheers to all and to all a .......

---