I've been talking to Rook and it sounds like his intakes were all in spec on the recent valve inspection but the exhausts were a bit too tight. No hard numbers yet, looking forward to hearing a full report from Rook on actual clearances when he's all finished. The book calls for 15,000 miles for the first valve inspection and I've noticed many are running way past this before doing the first inspection. I think Rook was at 28,000 miles. It seems that this is an area of neglect for many owners since the dealer charges quite a bit to do the inspection and for the DIY'r it can be a daunting task the first time. Blue07, how many miles when you did yours, I know you have a lot of miles? I'm curious as too what clearance can lead to the valve staying open and causing valve or seat damage, it sounds like no one has been this tight thus far. I am at 15,000 miles now on my 14 but considering holding off for awhile since this is a pretty big job and the bike will be down for awhile to do it right. I know I waited to 11,000 on my VTX and it called for an inspection at 600 miles and another at 8,000 with subsequent inspections at each 8,000 miles. I was lucky and the tightest valve was right on the lower limit. To be honest, I'm now at 28,000 on the VTX and still haven't checked them again, planning on doing this when the weather cools down abit. I'm curious to see where they're at. My experience has been that after the initial wear in they stabilize and don't change much, we shall see.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 8/16/2011 @ 11:13 AM *

14 owners, sound off. How many miles when you did the first valve inspection and what were the actual clearances? I'm going to let empirical evicence determine when I should do my 14. If everyone is finding tight valves at 15,000, I'l go ahead and bit the bullet and get this done ASAP.

Hiya Kruz...hope yer doin well.I didn't have mine checked until just past 24,000....each one,intake/exhaust were right at the spec.I've got 48,000+ right now....I want to go get em checked again....it's just pulling all the bodywork off that I'm avoiding.I'd really rather do that when I won't be riding again for a while.Season's winding down,kinda.Engine sounds excellent.No strange noises.I'm probably gonna wait till after Sept to have it done.I mean...she was fine at 24,so 50,000?I'm guessing it will be okay.Think I'm taking a chance on some damage?I may have gotten hold of a 'strange' bike.I broke her in by the book.Maybe that had something to do with the zero engine issues I've had?IDK.Went to full syn motul at 4th oil change.10/40.STOPPED running at wide open 'every other ride'.Ya...I think your valves are most likely,okay.I have run injector cleaner through there about 3 times since I had the valves checked...and a couple of times before that.Maybe that has helped keep things clear?My plugs I replaced a few weeks ago(from the previous set that went to around 19,000 miles,maybe less)...they were light tan,but the pointy tips were beginning to erode,they were kinda bending over just at the very point.They didn't appear to me to be like,'too lean' or 'too rich' or anything.Looked 'normal' for a 24,000 mile plug.(?)

I have my sheet from the valve check here somewhere.He wrote everything down on the back of the work order.Want me to see if I can find it?I will if ya want.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/16/2011 @ 11:41 AM *

Yea, just curious. What did that cost you, that had to be a fair amont of labor? Valves is one of those things that I just couldn't trust to anyone else since it's so critical. Tire mounting and balancing is the only thing I farm out and they almost always nick my rims. If your valves were in spec at 24,000 miles I would venture to say they're not going to ever move. Most of the clearance change is due to valve seat regression and that takes place in the first few thousand miles of operation. I've known guys with old, high mileage bikes that have said, "Valves, you mean I was supposed to adjust them"? LOL! They're still running good so IDK.

1 bad says .006" intanke, .009" exhaust is optimum(those are both the minimum spec). Hub says going wider is better than tighter because obviously you will have to readjust sooner if you go on the tight end.

Her's mine at 29000 miles.
metric

inches are a little easier to conceptualize. Nice neat round numbers. (.006 .007 .008....)

https://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=45E3E8AB-1372-66AE-3BD2BBF9FC6A10C7

I removed Tbodies. That was not necessary but sure opens up that cluttered hole under the airbox. Really, J, this is aboiout 7-8 smaller jobs rolled into one huge procedure. None of the small jobs are anything any of us couldn't handle but all together, first time doing it---we are talking prolly ~100 hours of work. That seems insane but I guess and then double and that usually ends uo being about right. I am working full time and overtime ~ every other weekend which kills any opportunity to do anything. The 14 has been out for aprox 10 weeks. I estimate another 30 hours. to reshim and put all back.

It's a really great learning experience, though. I don't wish to scare anyone off. I believe the How Tos will cut the time in half but you can see we are still talking a sizable chunk of time.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/16/2011 @ 3:42 PM *

OF course you know I screw around a lot with taking pictures and staring in awe par for the course if you never did this kind of thing before and you get into it.

the looser the easier to spit a shim . i'm not even gonna get into the problems with heavy springs

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 8/16/2011 @ 5:31 PM *

Oh, just list why, bad. Hammers the seat you can feel the lip of aluminum [at the valve seat] kind of close the gap?

Kruz, it's all about blueprinting the bike. Bike runs a number in the middle. You aim for that number or like bad said, she starts spitting shim '@ high rpm.'

Loose Shims:
1. Spit-able.
2. Cools the valve where it can't cook the carbon off.
3. Great for grunt, bottom end work.

Book Spec:
1. Blueprinting is that mark.
2. Cleans the valve in a more ideal gap to close to open.
3. Thus, the overall 'gruntop end' combined.

Tight Shims:
1. Tick-able sound you know whoever set the shim gap, it is way too tight is that tick every so often or a constantick.
2. Cooks the valve when it can't cool, it burns the carbon, then the valve itself into cracks around the face.
3. Great for top end speed.

Rook will tell you. His feeler leaves should be put away without a gap in that pack. A warped disc sound familiar? Go check the mechanic's feeler pack. Are they all bent or look brand new? Some think pushing that feeler in is a feel of the feeler gauge. It is in the hands of one who knows how to feel a gap with that tool or the tool is useless. Like hand that AK to a monkey video.

^^whether it be easy or just a bit snug, if it don't go right in, assume that blade is too thick. Try the next smaller. If you pushed it in, I would assume the next smaller blade was closer to the actual clearance.

Here is what we are looking at in jobs to do valve clearance:

fairings
clean air switch valve
*fuel tank
*throttle cables
*throttle bodies
crank case sensor cover
stick coils
heat insulator matt (Main wiring harness comes apart again like in PC install)
head cover
cam chain tensioner
camshafts
lifters, shims
The * items are not necessary to remove unless you are willing to cut off the heat insulator mat. That thing has prolly gathered a lot of dust. You'll want to remove it especially if you have a head gasket leaking oil up there. I would really try to clean everything up spotless before opening the head. You can cut that insulator matt off if you want but then you will have more heat radiating on you at the stop lights.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/16/2011 @ 10:54 PM *

Oh, just list why, bad. Hammers the seat you can feel the lip of aluminum [at the valve seat] kind of close the gap?

you get to eat valve with mushroom heads and pulled necks every few passes until yezz runz outs of mushrooms and necks...

Thanks for posting that chart Rook, that gives me an idea of what to expect although I doubt I'll wait till 28,000 to do this, probably get her done in the next few thousand miles.

Back to original question, Hub, 1Bad, looking at Rooks numbers, did he do any damage or still OK? #4 intake looked a bit tight at .004".

The way I see it, the mfg gives you a range to play with, target +/- .001" to shoot for. If you set 'em up initially on the tight side of the range and they're going to wear in the next 15,000 miles, you're going to have some tight valves like Rooksteer here, they know that. No avoiding it. Does it hurt anything though? I think the Rook caught 'em in plenty of time. Just my .02

* Last updated by: Kruz on 8/17/2011 @ 6:52 AM *

Rook wrote:

---we are talking prolly ~100 hours of work.

At a shoprate of $80 per hour that comes out to $8000 to adjust your valves, labor only no parts included. Might be cheaper to buy a new bike or drop in a new motor rather than have those valves adjusted.

Seriously though, this may be an explanation of why a lot of guys postpone the first valve inspection....indefinitley.

I'm curious now what a Kawi dealer would charge for this job. I know the Honda dealer wanted $300 labor to do my VTX back in '05, that was about 4 to 5 hours. But that's a V-twin with 3 valve heads and screw type lash adjusters, different animal. Seems reasonable now, at the time though I thought it was armed robbery. I spent an entire day doing the job myself. Could probably do it the second time around in 5 hours, learned a couple shortcuts.

Speaking of shop rates and dealers, I remember a guy who took his bike in for the initial 600 hour inspection on his Honda VTX1300. This includes the first valve inspection as those big, heavy valves they use beat the seats into submission pretty quickly. Long story short, the dealer never touched the valves but the owner got the big bill for it. I've heard of this happening more than a few times, mechanic figures no one will ever know until way down the road when it burns a valve seat or won't start anymore.

i always believed if you got any clearance its ok .. its when its holding the valve open that damage is done..

Speaking of shop rates and dealers, I remember a guy who took his bike in for the initial 600 hour inspection on his Honda VTX1300. This includes the first valve inspection as those big, heavy valves they use beat the seats into submission pretty quickly. Long story short, the dealer never touched the valves but the owner got the big bill for it. I've heard of this happening more than a few times, mechanic figures no one will ever know until way down the road when it burns a valve seat or won't start anymore.

i've got burnt on this back in the day of young and stupid.. this why i do all my own work on everything ..i will not trust anybody on anything unless i'm standing there watching it done 1st had ..

At a shoprate of $80 per hour that comes out to $8000 to adjust your valves, labor only no parts included. Might be cheaper to buy a new bike or drop in a new motor rather than have those valves adjusted.

the dealer never touched the valves but the owner got the big bill for it.

..i will not trust anybody on anything unless i'm standing there watching it done 1st had ..

Glue a hair across the parts and see if it is still there when you get it back.....what are you going to do if you find out the work wasn't done?

Don't pay em..Sears Service Center at Memorial City Mall in Houston had a bad reputation for doing this, a news crew had the parts marked with flourescent dye and setup a camera to watch the vehicle. It got rolled out into the back lot and then rolled out when the customer came to pick it up. They got the State Attorney Generals office involved on that one. It happens, Romans (the people of Rome not the forum member) said it best... Caveat Emptor...Buyer Beware!

* Last updated by: Kruz on 8/17/2011 @ 11:45 AM *

I remove everything necessary before takin mine to my mech.Everything.That way...he just goes in,pulls the cam cover,inspects,and buttons er back up.I think my last bill was at around 200,but not sure(it may have been less actually).He knows his shi^alright.I did have to leave er overnight though...which just about killed me!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/17/2011 @ 11:48 AM *

Don't pay em..

Caveat Emptor....Buyer Beware

Actually applies to any transaction involving the exchange of money for goods, real estate or services. When you hire a mechanic you are purchasing a portion of his time. The principle of Caveat Emptor can apply here if the mechanic does a poor job. He's incompetent and you should have checked out his reputation before hiring him, case closed, nothing criminal about it. Something entirely different when you contract for a service and the service is not performed but you are billed for it as if it were. That is theft or fraud.

(?mp'tôr') n.

The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying.

[From Latin caveat ?mptor, let the buyer beware : caveat, third person sing. present subjunctive of cav?re, to beware + ?mptor, buyer.

Actually, in the case I mentioned above there was no need to call the police as the news crew confronted the manager with their video evidence, the last thing he wanted to do was to bring in any more publicity. The theft was on his part or more accurately fraud. If I remember, some folks did jail time on that one.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 8/17/2011 @ 2:04 PM *

I like the idea of...'glue a hair onto the parts'thing.At least YOU know it did or didn't get done.Just be VERY sparing with the glue!Wouldn't want to raise any red flags to an 'observant' eye.

Kinda like settin a small shred of paper above yer door sill inside.Small,very small...to not be noticed when it 'miraculously' fluttered to the center of the living room floor while you were gone off to work.Unfortunately,there ARE some real pieces of work out there.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/17/2011 @ 2:52 PM *

Kruz, You and 1bad made good points. I read a book called, "Mr. Badwrench" an Sears was just part of that kind of ripping off. Remember all those tire/service chain stores? Where are they now? Best is to sit and wait there and watch. They say no, you walk. Some can't tag team [the] talking to you and doing the work on your bike [at the same time]. Ask Rook about that measuring and about getting it right the first time. It's kind of distracting as that time to stop and talk eats at his/her wallet/purse strings. Better to step back, watch from afar.

I would point to management about shoddy work in the back. If they are slack, let that happen, you need to see the connection of the manager getting a kickback on that work order. So, if the engine is about to give up, that thing is out or at least they have to work on something. If you come in for a 600 mile, the oil can at last extend more than that, you gotta wonder what else they didn't do?

Find a manager that cares more about shop reputation with all those awards, he/she is probably on top of each bike. That says, customer satisfaction. "Was your problem solved in a timely manor ~ Yes or No?" kind of mailed off to corporate. The only way you get that sign lined up on the wall is a drop in the mail.

No factory name on that plaque of satisfaction here at this dealer is to walk again. Either that or find a mechanic that takes pride or has that, 'gotta cover your ass you never know' kind of bites you all the time. If you do not learn your lesson about, yeah, 'close enough for gov work' is that attitude, walk.

Rook is the rare. Asked too many basic questions that hit the spot. In other words, he was already there. It was the physical application he was missing. Plows right through the shit now. As if some human looked at, then steeped back, looking at a what? CB750 kind valve adjustment? What is the difference you step back in awe of the same bike is so many words are the same parts behind the covering.

Now that the cover is out of the way, Kawi already had shim under bucket. Backdoor help was Pop's, right? Wasn't Pop's running Kawi and was not parts coming from cough-cough... Shim under the bucket? Shim over bucket? That was too easy. Racing club level, you were spitting shims out the top. Racing with back door experimental parts is another idea. We shim it fast forward is here we are. No change in design = Shim sheer the shit out of the cam tower caps you cock sucking squids I'm stuck with that shit fix is heli-coil your ass use an inch beam!

Oh, I got an acid flash back was way too much time smelling that charging area to upsell you a battery you won't charge on the 15th day you let it sit that long you cock sucking mother gotta smell that shit you don't believe me is here, here is your upsell stick the fucking thing in yourself! Oh, I was out in the garage charging the ape's battery being it was a fucking sitter for so long and so long as I'm working on that bike...... Kruz! Get your ass in the garage and get to work!

Kruz! Get your ass in the garage and get to work!

You have enough bikes this sort of thing shouldn't come up too often. You have the space. I'd say hoist that big girl up and start stripping 'er down.

^^Yeah, Kruz. You might want to check those valve clearances. That is only half the reason to have a look in there. I have some wear on my caps and if I would have checked at 15,000, maybe I would have been able to head it off or make it less severe. The caps are made for THE ENGINE. One and only. can't replace. Have to replace the engine--at least the block- to get fresh caps. Oh well, almost 30,000 miles, some things have to be waring out but she should go a long time still.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/17/2011 @ 11:01 PM *

Caps? What Caps? Worn out? Replace engine? What the heck are you talking about Rook, you're starting to sound like HubMeister?