Good to know you liked the 7100 I just spent my gift card on some ! will see if I can tell the difference next oil change, I am sure I will be able to tell the difference, just running castrol M/C dino oil at the moment, had regular rotella in before that, it still seems to shift a little hard unless I am at a certain RPM, nothing major, but hoping the motul will soften it a little ....

* Last updated by: carabuser on 12/13/2012 @ 12:18 PM *

I think you'll be pleased with that 7100....it works very well.

Just checked my manual (2012 ZZR1400/ZX14) and the ONLY recommendation is for API SG/SH/SJ/SL or SM with JASO MA/MA1 or MA2 IN 10/40 viscosity with a note saying this may be changed to suit climatic conditions. There is NO mention of synthetic, semi synthetic or dino. Just a 'caution' note advising not to mix additives with the oil. So, obviously, the important thing here is the oil SPECS, not what it's base oil is derived from. At least, that's the way I read it.

* Last updated by: pegscraper on 12/13/2012 @ 12:43 PM *

In mine...the list for synthetic is in there...I think there's like two types allowed.I'll have to look...but I was surprised when I saw the Jaso numbers or whatever they are...and noted the use of synthetic.From the very beginning of the engine's life.

I just looked in my manual...and the "jaso M series" are synthetic.Rotella was listed on the web as one of these(classed with "Jaso M")

Apparently the other API SG's and such are dino oils...

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/13/2012 @ 1:10 PM *

Grn - could not find the warning on Brock's website about Mobil 1. Would really like to know what he said since I trust his opinion. I used Mobil 1 4T in all my previous bikes and was going to start using it in the 14R as well. Let me know if you can find it again. Thanks.

From the Brock's website:

This is why I have NO PROBLEM using fully synthetic motor oil much sooner -in the life of the engine- than in the past. In fact, we actually break-in some big stroker engines on fully synthetic because we see more bearing issues than problems with the rings seating, especially with after-market billet crankshafts

I used 5W-30 Mobil 1 car oil for everything else except modified engines making over 210-220 RWHP- in this case I use the 10W-30 Mobil 1 car oil up to and over 500 HP (shootout turbos and/or nitrous, etc.)

Mobil 1 has apparently actually changed the formulation (all weights) of its fully synthetic car oil we have been using for years?.. In the past, they only changed the label, but the product worked well.

We have had a rash of welded clutch pusher assemblies (and damaged clutches) in the first part of 2007. Nearly all can be traced to switching to the ?new? Mobil 1.

We had HP problems in the past with the Mobil 1 bike oil vs. their car oil...that's why we stuck with the car oil.

What this tells me is that they got higher dyno numbers using 0W or 5W car oils than they did with 10W bike oil. No big mystery there.

* Last updated by: Danno on 12/13/2012 @ 4:02 PM *

Ive always wondered... what does that "W" indicate? Winter?

Weight.The higher the W...the 'thinner' in colder weather(or in higher temps as well....which may or may not be good for hotter running engines?...I think.It's only on the first number...course,you knew that.O weight would be almost no 'thickness' to slow down spinning parts(like for dragging).I do believe W stands for 'winter'.Hell...IDK;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/13/2012 @ 9:03 PM *

Thanks Carabuser.

pegscraper; I read it, just didn't see Amsoil mentioned. No problem with your opinion. I guess I just don't like the term "placebo effect". Makes it sound like someone with a different opinion than yours doesn't know what they're talking about.

@Danno -

Amsoil made my ZZR 1200's motor slightly more reluctant to start, reduced fuel mileage (slightly) and made shifting a bit more difficult compared to Mobil 1 4T. For that reason, I have not bothered using it in the ZX-14.

Lytnin' (who also runs Mobil 1 4T) told a story of rebuilding his friend's ZRX dragbike motor that was full of Amsoil. He said the stuff was so thick and clingy, he could hardly hold a part between two fingers. It seems Amsoil uses an additive that makes it cling to an engine's parts, which could be good, but also seems to have the effect of thickening the oil, making it flow less easily. To me, thick and gooey is not good.

This is anecdotal evidence, not empirical. Your results may vary. Both oils were 10W40 4T. I have heard of Amsoil 0W40, but don't know if it's a 4T product. It may flow a bit better than their 10W40.

I am dubious there wasn't some other cause, and there is no way to know.

I use MCF 10W40 in my bikes. NOT 4T.

And Amsoil is not thick and gooey, it pours just like regular oil.

But if you blow some rings, or something, and it blows ash and such down into the crank, well, I guess you could get something gooey and thick.

Taking the opinion of people who are not good mechanics and don't know what they are talking about as gospel is hardly a good reason to tell lies about Amsoil.

And I know you don't mean it that way, but you are trashing a great produce because some guy doesn't understand what happened to his engine.

* Last updated by: privateer on 12/14/2012 @ 9:52 AM *

uh oh......

"Weight.The higher the W...the 'thinner' in colder weather(or in higher temps as well....which may or may not be good for hotter running engines?...I think.It's only on the first number...course,you knew that.O weight would be almost no 'thickness' to slow down spinning parts(like for dragging).I do believe W stands for 'winter'.Hell...IDK;)"

I think you may have got that the wrong way round. The higher the number the THICKER the oil.
For instance. 10w40 means an oil, when cold will have the viscosity of a 10 weight oil but when hot will the same viscosity of a 40 weight at the same temperature. So a 5w40 will be thinner or have a lower viscosity when cold than a 10w40 but when hot will be the same.

From Amsoil :

"W" means winter

0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30 synthetic motor oils are ALL 30 weight oils. The answer is that ANY one can be used regardless if your vehicle owners manual says to use, for example, a 5W-30. "W" means winter. In winter weather the 0W oil will flow like a 0W oil, and the 5W will flow like a 5W oil and a 10W will flow like a 10W oil just until the engine warms up. In order to understand the differences one has to first understand that the numerical values given to these various weight oils are strictly empirical numbers. For example, 0W does not mean that the oil has no weight. That is one of the reasons why we say it is strictly an empirical number.

In order to determine the differences between the three oils one has to look at the kinematic viscosity of each lubricant. The kinematic viscosity is essentially the amount of time, in centistokes, that it takes for a specified volume of the lubricant to flow through a fixed diameter orifice at a given temperature.

Yeah...I was thinking...well...I don't know what I was thinking just then...I knew it didn't sound quite right;)Thanks.

I ran some expensive 5W/15 once in my 07...supposed to be really good oil...for motorcycles...name brand...German I think...it lasted about 1500 miles and the shifting went totally bonkers...HOWEVER...it LOOKED very good:)

Came in a GREY colored plastic container...with a green built in pouring hose...nice....recommended actually by some bike mag.It was motorcycle specific...wet clutch...all that.It is a known brand...I just can't remember just now who made it.Full syn.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/14/2012 @ 12:55 PM *

"0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30 synthetic motor oils are ALL 30 weight oils."

They are multigrades. The Viscosity Index Improvers used to make a multigrade oil give the oil the viscosity of the BASE GRADE oil when cold (ie. 0, 5, 10 etc) and the viscosity of the second grade when hot.

I didn't know that...dumb as that sounds...thanks...and all this time

pegscraper; So "0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30 synthetic motor oils are ALL 30 weight oils.".....when hot. And all can be used because vehicles vary weight with ambient temp anyway. So since my mower calls for 30wt, could I use 0w-30 syn? Sounds like it.

"pegscraper; So "0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30 synthetic motor oils are ALL 30 weight oils.".....when hot. And all can be used because vehicles vary weight with ambient temp anyway. So since my mower calls for 30wt, could I use 0w-30 syn? Sounds like it."

You could do but you'd be wasting money. Unless you're cutting the grass at -20 degC a single grade 30wt oil is pefectly adequate and preferred as it would be in numerous other similar applications. Multigrades were developed specifically for motor vehicles to cope with the huge variation in operating temps from extremely cold starts in winter to being stuck in traffic in summer. Monogrades are unable to cope with such a large variation in temperature, and hence viscosity changes and offer the same protection.

pegscraper; only reason is I buy Amsoil by the case. The mower only uses .7 quart, and maybe burns another .2. I usually have an extra quart in the 0w-30 case. About a $3 difference over straight 30wt.

15-50 mobile 1 here, I know it's not motorcycle specific , shifts better than ever no slippage , less crunch neutral to first , tried amsoil mct 10-40 , mobile 1 noticeaby better, my opinion.

This is a good article and has some good info on oil

Your text to link here...

"Don’t mollycoddle your new engine with expensive oils either. Running in oils are rare and completely unnecessary on a modern engine, but here’s a shock, don’t splash out either on a costly fully synthetic oil until your engine’s covered at least 5,000 miles (8,000km). This comes from the highest authority, Castrol, who would love you to buy the company’s expensive synthetic oils..."

"Peter Brett says that they’ve discovered synthetic oils actually interfere with running in, for reasons which go beyond their low friction properties - there also seems to be a chemical process happening which hinders it. “Although you can treat an engine as fully run in after 500 miles, surface stabilisation continues for at least the first 5,000 miles of an engine’s life,” he says. “Synthetic oils actively prevent this from happening, and not simply by holding friction surfaces apart, although we still don’t know exactly why and how this happens. But there’s no doubt they inhibit the process itself. So the consequence of using a synthetic too early is your engine will never run in properly. I would even suggest waiting until 10,000 miles (16,000km) before using it in most engines subjected to normal use. Until then, you’re best to use an inexpensive but branded mineral oil.”

So, save money by using a cheaper oil when your engine is new, it will run in properly and you will improve its longevity, power output and oil consumption. Can’t be bad, and that comes from people whose interest is in selling you expensive synthetics.

It’s worth noting that when you do reach the mileage where a synthetic will start to be of benefit, only use a fully synthetic if it’s specifically designed for motorcycles with wet clutches (unless your bike has a dry clutch anyway, eg Ducati, BMW, Guzzi) or you’ll suffer clutch slip. Otherwise go for a semi-synthetic, but even then check it’s suited to wet clutch systems."