Mat, Ride it and forget it. Wait till you take it out. Maybe, lay out a pair of new underwear... just in case.

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its already pulled. test run is tommorow. Romans might have a pciii plus ignition module for sale that i might buy.

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You're not installing the PCIII to correct a lean condition without secondaries...you're installing the PCIII to remap the bottom 5,000 rpm and down.That's all.It's really only for low end power.You can't get the 5,000 rpm and down range mapped UNLESS you put in the PCIII...or something similar.It's the fuel mapping down there that makes the difference(and removing the secondaries).Any other mapping above 5,000 is icing on the cake,or not.Only pulling the secondaries will give a 'boost' to the engine response,but the 'boost' and remap will give er the kick you're looking for.If you're only running no secondaries,with a factory map...you're missing out on a bigger performance gain.Engine damage?IDK.Haven't heard of anyone's engine being damaged with secondaries removal only.Someone should chime in if they've been running no secondaries and stock factory mapping for any length of time.

IF opening the secondaries(effectively removing them)sooner...like in the 08's and up caused engine damage(lean condition)why would Kawasaki have set the TPS in these later bikes to open sooner?They wouldn't.Secondaries opening sooner create a bigger fuel/air ratio sooner along the rpm scale,assuming Kawasaki remapped the bottom end some.Someone I think misinterpreted the reason for the PCIII.It's not correcting a lean condition.I don't know where that came from...some website somewhere I guess.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 10/9/2011 @ 1:53 PM *

So Blue07.. How do you correct the lean conditions then? (I dont have this problem yet, but how would i have to fix it if i DID have lean conditions?)

tyty!

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By the way,

In a few weeks my bike is getting a new Coat. She's going to get the color of a ZX14 2010. RED!! THATS HOT!!!!!

Picture:

* Last updated by: Matsuke on 10/9/2011 @ 1:57 PM *

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SWEET!!!!Good choice Mat!Lookin really nice.

I'm saying that I haven't seen any posts 'proving' there's a lean condition by removing the secondaries.I don't know where that assumption came from.But it somehow stuck.IF removing the secondaries causes a 'lean condition'....then why would Kawasaki open them faster(lower down the rpm scale)?It doesn't add up.You cannot map the factory map without a PCIII.Period.IF there happens to be a 'lean condition" below 5,000 rpms....then the remap will correct it...but that would only be a secondary reason...not the primary reason for removing flies and remapping below 5,000.The 'custom' maps are adding fuel along the rpm ranges as the engine speeds up.WHY?For better performance.Bringing that 'better performance' down below 5,000 rpm is what the PCIII is really intended for.It's not really used to remap the upper levels...although it can and is used for that part as well.You have to remember....ZEROS in the mapping fuel cells DOES NOT MEAN ZERO fuel.It means ZERO FUEL added or subtracted from the FACTORY set.And I haven't seen anyone show how much fuel is being used on the FACTORY map below 5,000...or any other area of the factory map.So who can say whether the factory map actually IS lean?A/F ratio would be the way to tell.NOT fuel cell mapping.I seriously doubt Kawasaki would map their bike with a 'lean condition' created by secondary opening speed.I think Kawasaki...and I'm not alone on this....put those secondaries in there to enhance the throttle response in a particular way....ON THE FIRST VERSIONS...so people would not end up getting killed right and left with a sudden and strong throttle response.After they'd been out for a while,couple of years,Kawasaki found out that guys DID want to have better response...so they changed the throttle opening speed.That's what I think...only conjecture though.Not proven fact.If you ask anyone with a later model bike how removing the secondaries will affect performance down low...they'll say.."Not really"....their words...not mine.So the 'sooner opening secondaries' are basically the same as REMOVING the secondaries.And I doubt Kawasaki set their maps for a lean condition by opening the flies quicker.

The AIR/FUEL ratio would be the scale to watch.And that would change with fuel cell tweaking.We know Kawasaki did not create a lean condition with their mapping.So I would think(may be wrong here)that the factory map would be virtually fine with or without secondaries.But you will still miss the 'kick' of remapping down low just using the factory settings.

All this I'm saying is my thinking on it.I am not a tuner...or anything really but a consumer.I have not seen any dyno runs without secondaries using the factory mapping to see what the A/F ratios are from 0 rpms to 11,000.If there are some...someone should post up so we could all see what's happening without secondaries being involved.There's several showing different fuel cell mapping on up the rpm scale....and their A/F ratios.But NONE that I've seen down below 5,000 and NO PC.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 10/9/2011 @ 2:53 PM *

Thanks for the clarification Blue07! That helped =D

Man, u guys are making me nervous to ride my bike now with the flies removed. LOL... Especially because it isn't the best weather right now, and its raining now and then...

You liking the color Blue07? I love it also! Its darker than the usual color u see on the ZX14 (From 2006). I like this one more, it has more depth!

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Yep...very nice color!I think you can ride your bike without the PCIII.And no secondaries.And not worry about engine damage.Remember....opening a secondary plate sooner is the same as 'no secondary plate' in the real world.I'm pretty sure if Kawasaki set their plates to open sooner...they would have 'remapped' somewhat from the factory to make up for any possible lean condition by doing that.To me...this makes sense.But I'm NOT an expert!They STILL do not want their consumers to kill themselves by purposely creating a throttle condition that would get people into trouble.So their 'resetting' of the plate openings was a 'compromise'.The lower remapping with the PCIII will give the engine the full benefit of the plate opening sooner.NOT intended to create a richer condition.Even though it does.

I removed my secondaries way back when...07.I ONLY installed a PCIII for fuel addition below 5,000 RPMs so I could get the punch I wanted down low.But I wouldn't hesitate to remove the PCIII and ride without secondaries.IF I wanted to remain 'stock'.(with a somewhat better response).

If you look on the aftermarket pipe companies....they recommend a PCIII to get 'maximum benefit' from their pipes.They do not say..."to correct a lean condition'.Not that they would...but...aftermarket pipes DO allow a better airflow.Which pretty much means...MORE FUEL.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 10/9/2011 @ 3:16 PM *

Operation 'Flies Removal' COMPLETE!

holy crap, R you wen't and got 'er done. good for you! The screws are scary. I used a magnet tool to grab mine just as they were on the last thread. Wish I was off of work today, i could have given you some pointers. What ever way you got them out is good. There is a thread in How Tos about fly removal.

Hub's opinion is that the flies out opperation will not do any harm even without the PC.

My feeling is that you might as well be on the safe side and use the PC. Here is why.

The bike is programmed to mix the appropriate amount of air and fuel. Air/Fuel Ratios (AFR). An AFR program is called a map. The stock map was created to work with a stock air filter, stock exhaust system, stock intake, stock everything. The MORE mods that you do that affect AFR (such as aftermarket air filter, full system exhaust, velocity stacks, nitrus oxide system etc, etc, etc..., the LESS appropriate is the stock map. Simply put, the stock map is programmed for 1 unit of air for 12 units of gas but your mods are letting in 2 units of air. The stock map keeps pouring in the amount of fuel it was programmed to. IT does not know there is now twice as much air coming in from the modifications you did to increase air flow.

You have more air and now you need more gas to go with it. If you run with too much air and not enough fuel, you are running lean and this is a big risk to the engine. To accommodate the need for additional fuel, you need a new map. You need a PC to put the map into so the bike can run off of it rather than it's stock map.

That's the general idea, Matsuke. There may be a few small misconceptions there but the general idea is accurate.

What exactly happens when the bike runs lean .. ?

Too much air/not enough fuel= but burns very hot.

How do you notice,

It is not as simple as keeping an eye on your temperature gauge. It just happens. If you have an AFR gauge hooked up it will indicate a lean condition if it happens. Running lean can lead to a hole burning through your piston.

how can it only be in the 4k-5k area for example?

You would have to ask a Kawi engineer to be sure but I would bet that the lean zone abetween 4-5K is related to flies IN opperation. The bike is supposed to have flies in and that is what it was mapped for. Flies in means less air comes in. The map introduces the right amount of fuel for that air. You take the flies out and now you have twice as much air coming in, same amount of fuel. THer e is TOO much air now. You are running lean.

so that is why most people get a PC---just in case. However, I can tell you that a good map does more than keep your engine safe from burning up. It makes more power and runs cooler too. You can tune the map to do all kinds of stuff. A PC is a nice item to have whether it is essential or not.

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There are TWO styles of PC from Dynojet.The EX...which is a street version for remapping everything above 5000.Then the RACE VERSION ONLY...which will open the 5000 and down rpm range.It is for allowing the user to remap for maximum kick down low.It is not intended to overcome a lean condition...but it can and will if mapped correctly.So worrying about factory settings with no secondaries is probably a waste of time.I think Dynojet would have touted'correct your lean condition by installing a PCIII" as a way to sell units.But they didn't.They'd probably get sued big time from Kawasaki if they said'your bike is now dangerously lean without the secondaries'.They know people are removing the flies.They have the maps for that on their site.

And NOW Mat...since you've gotten those pesky flies outta there....NOW...get ya the Rifleman's 1/5th throttle mod.And HANG ON!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 10/9/2011 @ 3:42 PM *

Whoop! Thanks for explaining guys!!!

Rook.. That sounds kind of scary - U can fuck up ur engine without even noticing ur burning the Pistons? WUT?! lol!

Blue07 .... Are u throwing ANOTHER new term/tool into my direction?? Rifleman's 1/5th throttle mod?????????? lol!! Sounds fuckin scary if u asking me..!!!

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... btw, anyone ever tried to PAINT a set of exhausts with any succes? Dark greyish Muzzy exhausts would fit that bloody-like ZX14 color ... LOL!

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Never had any complaints with em yet!I LOVE mine!

You have more air and now you need more gas to go with it.

You are so fun to play with, Rook. You are like a mechanical rookie, now, you are the theoretical rookie.

You are missing the videos of no one listens to turtle walk the speak. Let me speak the walk. I'm an ass the assbasswords, swinging the meatalk. I have to screw it up so bad, it walks right back like infinity it walks:

More Air Rook: Show me how more air entered the cylinder? If we are going to see 4 more millimeters in bore, I think we have more air entering one size engine than in another.

Same Air Hub: Show me how if we have the same bore, same valve opening or that full lift and that time in duration we did not change. Show me more air.

More Air Rook: I'm going to show you more air. I took the air cleaner off. I changed the air cleaner to a wider fiber. I did something to make more air enter the engine.

Same Air Hub: Show me how you did that feet. Like feet per minute maybe. The feat is that you need to connect the brain to think how did more air enter the engine if at BDC [bottom dead center] We filled more air.

More Air Rook: Simple. I am going to show you how to fill a cylinder. I'm going to pour water in an empty glass and this represents the cylinder being filled with air. Once the intake valve closes, that air is filled to the very brim of the glass. I have more a....

Same Air Hub: She showed me. She showed me on the metereader. So, Rook, every time the valve closes, that water is filled to the brim each and every time. If it returns to atmosphere each and every time at BDC, that which tends to remain in motion and all that has stoppedead. The vacuum goes neutral on valve close. Oh, you'll hear a pop out the intake we have a leaking valve.

For every action, you did not see that number swing to 14.7 on the return if that is the suck going in to return to neutral or 1Atmo. I do not even have to say a thing but you be watching some of my vids with meters. That is why I have to use that dildo, bend you over, shove that tech rug burn right up your ass is, you keep repeating a fallacy or does the meter?

* Last updated by: Hub on 10/9/2011 @ 5:27 PM *

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Rook... Year smoking up the room(s). Connect the dots or we is going to LAPiss the slapiss the tech along the way so you walk the concepts you speak. When you diagnose, you have to have some basics. The smoke screams basics lost. Basics missing a step more or less. This is the qualify ear Q. You do not hear that suck is one number, then you sort of now can get the other number in what you call, 'lambda.'

Look up the Mangoldt theory. Look at the Tuono run in lambda or say, it is running in A-n D-J methods. One you divide. Spit screen 30 is 60 cycles on an old analog monitor means divide the digital jetronics. Same ass methods you cannot get out of the absolute loops no matter in open or closed loop.

Same absolute you fill 14.7 on the normally aspirated engine. Divider number hello? You base number hello? I'm talking out of my ass hello?

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Rook.. That sounds kind of scary - U can fuck up ur engine without even noticing ur burning the Pistons? WUT?! lol!

Never heard of anyone doing that unless they had NItrus or turbo. It is a concern though. I don't know enough about it to understand exactly how it happens but I know enough to understand that I do not want to burn a piston. So it's PC for me.

Hub I see where you are coming from with the engine is the same size and the valve closes the same. So there is not more air, but faster moving air? Goes in one end comes out the other in less time. There is less resistance to sucking air into the motor if there is more air available at the gate and/or out the exhaust?

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you see Matsuke, it takes too much time to understand these things right away. Yoiu follo wthe crowd you be ok. maybe a few hundred dollars poorer but you sleep well at night until you understand this stuff like a pro.

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Someone took a sneaky video of the Kawasaki Banner!!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/RickyGadson#p/a/u/0/MNHSpSCnUns

Sneak Peek Fellas!

Snuffy

* Last updated by: SnuffyZX on 10/10/2011 @ 7:04 AM *

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OK! Found a Painter who can Paint my bike to the colors of a Red ZX14 from 2010 (It is a bit more darker than the 2007 Red).

It's gonna cost me around ... 900 euro's. I know i know, it's a bunch of money, but the color is just !!!!! HOOTT!!!!!!

Small question by the way, i saw the 'How-to' from you, Rook - And it looks like a whole job to get all the parts loose
that has to be painted..... How long will this job take me, a person with Common sense? :P

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OK! Found a Painter who can Paint my bike to the colors of a Red ZX14 from 2010 (It is a bit more darker than the 2007 Red).

It's gonna cost me around ... 900 euro's. I know i know, it's a bunch of money, but the color is just !!!!! HOOTT!!!!!!

Small question by the way, i saw the 'How-to' from you, Rook - And it looks like a whole job to get all the parts loose
that has to be painted..... How long will this job take me, a person with Common sense? :P

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Wait for Rook. One thing I do is make a parts pattern. Even though it is mini in size, I still stab each area that a screw came out of into the cardboard drawing. I use that blue painter's tape over the bolt/washer so they don't fall out. You can mark L for left R for rear, B-F, for the back tail or front nose. Just pick up a cardboard with that painted part and off you go. No splattered nuts in a jar and where was that longer one suppose to go?

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Thanks for the tips Hub! Good ones

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