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Thread: valve cover

Created on: 05/09/09 12:10 AM

Replies: 93

Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: valve cover
04/03/10 1:14 PM

Okay...well I've noticed something "maybe" strange about these leaks.I've done the washer fix-and it worked fine.Recently,I was checking my oil level,and it "seemed" to be low.I added some oil.That took the level up to the top of the sightglass with it warmed up and sitting level.Now....I looked again at my valve cover,on the left side"just because".I noticed it's beginning to seep ever so slightly again.I don't think the leakage is occurring while riding.I think it's somehow connected to the bike sitting on it's kickstand,and having a "certain" amount of oil in it.I NEVER run my oil level at the top mark,or above ever.So I'm wondering now,could these leaks be linked to oil level?Anyone filling their bikes to the top line or above?The manual calls for in between?I don't think it's oil pressure related.But maybe?I know it gets up in the valve cover there at that edge.That's the common point for the leaks.But I'm wondering if having "too much" oil could cause enough pressure while riding to somehow get a "buildup" right there while sitting? I'm pretty sure it wasn't leaking prior to me adding that oil-I do remember checking it before that,maybe the day before?Both sides.................So actually,the only way to find out if there is a connection,is to drain a bit of oil out-which I'll do.Then we'll see(at least with mine).


* Last updated by: blue07 on 4/3/2010 @ 1:38 PM *

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: valve cover
04/03/10 1:49 PM

Okay-done-lowered oil level in sightglass to halfway between upper and lower marks.Wiped off cover seal-there was only a MINISCULE amount of oil anyway.Nothing like a leak.So now to ride-then check again-in a few days-back to work today.My bike is running so good it's amazing to me!Now she's pulling down 35 mpgallon,as opposed to 31,30 just a few weeks ago.I LOVE my bike!!!!!

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CoolWhip


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Brewtown Metropolis

Joined: 03/18/09

Posts: 121

RE: valve cover
04/07/10 2:35 PM

Nah Blue, I don't think it has much of anything to do with the site-glass or the level so much. I have always kept my oil level in the middle AND had the bike on the center stand when parked. Eventually, got a leaker like many 14 owners. It's just a defect that Kawi has not owned up to (yet).

Well, I finally took it apart to take a look-see (just have to go to the hardware store to get the washers). I noticed they put a lot of red Locktite on the aluminum crossbar bolts on the left (which has a few wires strapped to it). Wonder why all the Locktite? Looking closely, I noticed my leak is on the well known left (front) as well as in the middle (front) of the headers. I also noticed my big ass inch-pound Craftsman torque wrench can't even get to the front bolt without an "elbow" attach to it (tight quarters). Can you say five your old hands.

Anyway, will give you an update after a few miles.


* Last updated by: CoolWhip on 4/7/2010 @ 2:37 PM *

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: valve cover
04/07/10 3:12 PM

Ya-your most likely right about the level.Just a guess on my part.The factory locktite...yeah,it's on there alright.If I'm not mistaken,I read somewhere(maybe the manual?)that we're supposed to replace those bolts(not the valve cover bolts)with new ones once removed?I certainly didn't!Just a dab of locktite on em and they've been fine...the SEVERAL times I've removed em!On the cover bolts-I just used the tool kit open-end wrench to loosen and tighten the bolts(after removing the subframe piece)...I "think" the center front area of oil seepage is just blow-by from the left part...I didn't do any washers on that-only the front left and rear.Got in there "pretty" easily.They were snug,but not "tight tight".Not much torque on those.I'm not fully convinced yet that it's a pressure thing anyway.The leaks only appear on the kickstand side there.I'm more inclined to think it just seeps out while it's sitting after being heated up.How much pressure is IN that valve cover while riding anyway?I've no idea.If you removed the cover while she's just sitting there after a ride,I'm wondering how much oil is collecting at that one corner.I'm not gonna take er apart to find out...that's fer sure.I'm trusting your's is gonna be just fine there Cool...ya may get a tad bit more seepage for a couple of rides,so if ya see that,don't think it didn't work-then it should completely end.That's how mine was anyway.


* Last updated by: blue07 on 4/7/2010 @ 3:31 PM *

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gverver


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Toronto, ON - Oh Canada

Joined: 08/11/09

Posts: 14

RE: valve cover
04/25/10 7:22 PM

hey all, sorry to drag this out, but since it's still kicking, here's my story...

had the valve cover 'repaired' under warranty within the first year of ownership. brought it to another dealer since it started leaking again, and the dealer had to check with kawi to repair a second time since out of warranty. Continued to leak, so thought to snug up the left front cover bolt since I had the fairings off after installing new plugs. bolt snapped with less than a newton of force. dealer basically laughed at the thought they're liable. ordered new bolts, o-rings and cover gasket. waiting now for the parts. noticed the parts listings have new numbers with replaced comments:

11061 GASKET,HEAD COVER
11061-0328 (replaces 11061-0195)

92055 RING-O
92055-0143 (replaces 92055-1616)

The rest of the head cover parts list is the same. I'll update this post with photos of any differences in width/depth of gasket and o-rings.

My experiences with all the local dealers in Toronto have been poor at best. the current dealer at least makes the effort to appear sincere and professional. Sadly, I've had to do all the work myself b/c i'm tired of being disappointed. As much as I like working on my bike, I'd like to have an expert do some things. I'm quickly learning, I'm going to have to be that expert if I want it done right. Thanks to this forum and members for all their posted experience and knowledge.

g


* Last updated by: gverver on 4/25/2010 @ 7:23 PM *



2007 ZX14 | Full Muzzy | PC3 | Custom ZX10 Fender | Secondaries Removed

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gverver


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Location:

Toronto, ON - Oh Canada

Joined: 08/11/09

Posts: 14

RE: valve cover
04/27/10 1:22 PM

Well, just to update the thread....

I spoke to Kawi and they won't accept responsibility for the defect, even though it's pretty clear they've tried to address it with new o-rings and a new gasket since the bike's release. The tech I spoke to flat out denies there's an issue, even though all he has to do is google it and read about a trillion discussion threads on forums from here to mars. I'm still arguing my position on the matter, but looks like I'll be paying for those replacement parts, even though it's my opinion they should at least cover the parts...warranty or not. The leak persisted even after the warranty work was done, and they only came out with the replacement parts after my warranty expired - what good is that?

g



2007 ZX14 | Full Muzzy | PC3 | Custom ZX10 Fender | Secondaries Removed

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: valve cover
04/27/10 2:21 PM

Ya...I hear ya.Well...gotta do what ya gotta do.Next gasket for me will be that 2010 model-however,I'm not COMPLETELY convinced it's ONLY a gasket issue.I'll be keepin my washers on there(now)for as long as I can...until the valve check again(many moons from now).She's doin okay right now.

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gverver


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Location:

Toronto, ON - Oh Canada

Joined: 08/11/09

Posts: 14

RE: valve cover
04/27/10 6:34 PM

Ya Blue, I'm going to post some pictures of the new gasket and o-rings compared to the originals once I get the parts. Was hoping today, but they didn't make the truck. Tomorrow is the new promise. I'm holding my breath for now, but soon you may have to start calling me blue too:)

Cheers,
g



2007 ZX14 | Full Muzzy | PC3 | Custom ZX10 Fender | Secondaries Removed

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CoolWhip


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Brewtown Metropolis

Joined: 03/18/09

Posts: 121

RE: valve cover
05/17/10 2:01 PM

Update: Leak fixed! Thanks so much Blue for all your help & info. I used two M10 stainless steel washers (Ace Hardware) on the left two bolts. I ended up doing almost exactly as you directed...I ended up tightening them by feel since the addition of the washers would change the torque value somewhat. I went back & forth on each bolt, sweated it a little (didn't want to strip those babies )...but STOPPED as soon as I felt them snug up good & when they felt they were almost bottomed out. Meantime, she has been thoroughly high-speed tested & no more leakie! I can't tell you how good it is to NOT have the leak & no more stinkie on startup! Yeah...fixed!

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: valve cover
05/17/10 3:25 PM

Alright Cool...way to go!Glad yer back havin a non-issue issue again!I hate little stuff like that.It's not really hurting anything...but it's "just" not RIGHT either!They should last ya a long time now.Awesome!Mine's STILL leak free from about 20,000 miles ago.


* Last updated by: blue07 on 5/17/2010 @ 3:27 PM *

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wowerman



Joined: 06/21/10

Posts: 11

RE: valve cover
05/15/11 2:43 PM

Hi everybody.Do i need to take fuel tank off bike or just take side panels off and there will be access to bolts?I want to avoid not unnecessary work.How thick washer did you apply?Is one mm enough?Final question is how many bolts two left cyliders or only front and back ones from very left one?

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: valve cover
05/16/11 12:30 AM

3/8ths mm stainless steel M10 washers...two each...front left bolt,rear left bolt.Remove knee grip,left side.You should if I remember be able to get to the bolts from there.You DO NOT REMOVE THE TANK.!


* Last updated by: blue07 on 5/16/2011 @ 12:30 AM *

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COOTER


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South West Florida

Joined: 04/27/11

Posts: 1342

RE: valve cover
05/17/11 2:29 AM

wowerman


I just fixed the oil leak on my 2008 its very easy just get some 3/8 m10 washers remove your left faring unplug some connections lift the rubber insulator to get to the 2 valve cover bolts put 2 washers on each bolt (DO NOT TIGHTEN TO FACTORY SPEC ) tighten each bolt until you see the gasket start to squeeze reconnect all wires clean oil off engine,gasket,headers and run to check for leaks no leaks put faring back on and ride. I did this within 2 hr.



Team panda (ride safe ride sober)

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20600

RE: valve cover
11/21/11 4:53 PM

EDIT, 08/09/2014:
The most recently updated parts are

Head Cover Gasket, part # 11061-0738
Ring-o, part # 92055-0143

PARTZILLA LIVE CHAT

Please wait while an agent prepares to assist you...
You are currently at position number 1 in the queue.
You have been connected to Shannon R..
Shannon R.:  Hi Daron, I see that you need assistance regarding: Why do I see 2 of the same parts listed with dif part#s?. Please hold while I review your request.
Shannon R.:  It could be that one part supersedes into another. Please provide the part numbers.
Daron :  GASKET, HEAD COVER
Daron :  11061-0738 and 11061-0328
Shannon R.:  11061-0738 is just the newest part number. It superseded from one to the other.
Shannon R.:  So you can order by either number and will get the same part.
Daron :  ok, thank you. One more for ya. Ring-o 92055-0143 and ring-o 92055-0187
Shannon R.:  I show the original to no longer be available so this is the reason for the part number change.
Shannon R.:  I will check that one for you.
Shannon R.:  Are you seeing those on the same diagram together, the last two?
Daron :  Yes. on your page headed: Kawasaki Motorcycle Parts 2010 ZX1400CAF Ninja ZX-14 CYLINDER HEAD COVER Diagram the url is http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Kawasaki/Motorcycle/2010/ZX1400CAF+Ninja+ZX-14/CYLINDER+HEAD+COVER/parts.html
Shannon R.:  Thank you. I am going to look now.
Shannon R.:  That has to be an error on the site. There is only one o-ring, part number 92055-0187
Shannon R.:  One part number for the o-ring I mean.
Shannon R.:  I am viewing this model from Kawasaki software.
Shannon R.:  Are there any additional questions I can answer for you?
Daron :  Oh, yes. To clarify, you only have ring-o part # 92055-0187? The 0143 is listed elsewhere on the inet. Which is the most recent part?
Shannon R.:  That is the correct. The 0143 is a valid part number, just not for the same application.
Shannon R.:  One does not superseded into the other.
Shannon R.:  These are two different o-rings
Daron :  so, for the ZX-14 cylinder head cover bolts, part# 92055-0187 is what I need, right?
Shannon R.:  0143 is the oring that goes with 92153-1016 flanged bolt on the cylinder head cover.
Shannon R.:  Sorry.
Shannon R.:  Copy and paste did not work right.
Shannon R.:  92055-0187 is the o-ring that goes with that flanged bolt.
Daron :  OK. THANS SO MUCH. That is a huge help. I will be ordering a lot more than just ringo-s so your time will be worth all the effort. thanks .Daron


Mine leaked after the dealer checked the valve adjustment @ 16000 Mi. (all ok) took it back and they replaced the gasket free with the new one - guess what?, still leaks ! going with the washers next - geezzz !

We have a couple stories just like this in this thread. Now I am throwing in my .02 SAme thing leaking fixed leak but not really it still leaks. Next thing to do is try the washers.

Let me get this straight. It is only the two bolts to the far left that get shimmed with washers?

oops sorry, didn't see we had two more pages tpo this thread. Well good I'll read it.


* Last updated by: Rook on 8/9/2014 @ 1:42 PM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20600

RE: valve cover
11/21/11 7:36 PM

You need 12 each M10 washers to do the cover fix right? Any particulal thickness? I figured I'd get a batch at Ace hardware, they stock metric fasteners.

Sounds like some did each of the 6 bolts, some did only the left 2.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: valve cover
11/22/11 12:56 AM

You don't need 12.You only need 4...two each for the left side cover bolts...front and back.

They're M10 3/8ths washers...stainless.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/22/2011 @ 12:57 AM *

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Rook


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Posts: 20600

RE: valve cover
11/22/11 4:29 AM

makes sense since the left side seems to be the only place it leaks from. I have not seen what these washers look like but I imagine they are each about a mm thick. I wonder if 1 washer under each oft the left bolts would be enough?



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: valve cover
11/22/11 10:45 AM

You could try ONE....I don't think(or haven't heard anyway)of anyone using only one...but...give er a shot if ya think it might work.I really think almost any washer would work....just that someone somewhere used those m10's.It doesn't HAVE to be an M10.Any washer that'll give the threads a bit more bite...that's what you're after.Your call....I went with two cause that's what someone else recommended.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/22/2011 @ 10:47 AM *

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Hub


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Posts: 13722

RE: valve cover
11/22/11 2:23 PM

Grn is right; 'almost any washer will work.' It took this long to set the valves, check design of the bolt. The washer should stop the leak = A bolt shim. What happens to the stopper table design of the bolt? It is risen off the cam tower cap. What does that do? It adds more crush and lowers more press or closes off the leak so it seals again.

What are the updated gaskets? If they are, it's about a half a millimeter or so in the height. That adds crush so the stopper kind of cover bolt has more crush to pressure up against. So in theory, either raise the rubber height or raise the bolt height away from that bolt's stopper design.

I coulda had a V=8!



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: valve cover
11/22/11 2:41 PM

"Grn is right;".... Please Hub....


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/22/2011 @ 2:41 PM *

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Rook


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Posts: 20600

RE: valve cover
11/23/11 1:24 AM

I coulda had a V=8!

hehh eeheh!

"Grn is right;".... Please Hub....


New head cover bolt gaskets may be ~.5mm thicker....1 washer ought to do it. IDK, I guess I will just try it and see how it feels. I'm shimming all 6 bolts.


Here's my latest thought- The Engine Heat Insulator Blanket's secondary purpose is to help conceal the leaking head cover.....so maybe you don't see it hopefully until after warrantee is over.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Rook


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Posts: 20600

RE: valve cover
11/25/11 6:50 PM

OK I went to Lowe's and got a package of these for $6. About 50 of them in a pack. If I bought 15 it woulda cost me $4 so I got the 50 Pack. They are stainless steel 3/8" flat washers.



The 10mm washers were an exact fit to the disk on the head cover bolt and they were much cheaper but they really thick zinc. As you csan see, the 3/8 is a bit wider in diameter both the M10 and the 3/8 had about the same size hole which loosely fits the bolt shoulder nicely.

Looking for opinions and talk some things over about the toqueing and the all around construction of the thread holes/bolts shoulders and such. should I go with 1 washer or 2?


* Last updated by: Rook on 11/26/2011 @ 12:22 AM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: valve cover
11/25/11 11:40 PM

I went with two.I didn't want to have to redo it again.Torque...if you want to go with factory...you may very possibly crunch that gasket too much.IDK.I tightened back and forth evenly,then snugged both up ...but NOT completely to the end of the turning ability...so I don't know how much torque was on em.The snug amount seems to work in every case.Just watch your gasket skirt...mild wave along the lower edge there from front to back.That should do it .

Don't forget now...she's probably gonna seep a tad from residual oil in the valve cover groove...so give it a couple of cleanings after sitting deals,and it should be perfecto!


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/25/2011 @ 11:42 PM *

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Rook


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RE: valve cover
11/26/11 12:19 AM

I went with two.I didn't want to have to redo it again

I was thinking the same thing. BUT I will be redoing it because I will be rechecking valve clearance before the end of next year....since I adjusted them to minimum clearance. If I had adjusted them loose, I would be going right to 2 shims or I would have just used the thick zinc 10mm I was looking at.

I can't see that 2 would be any worse than 1 but you do lose out on a few more threads by shimming it higher rather than lower. Also gain a couple hundreths of an ounce in weight (can't deny that idea crossed my mind several times-lol).

Torque...if you want to go with factory...you may very possibly crunch that gasket too much.

^^There be a reason in itself to use only 1 washer. more chance of getting the right amount of crush and still having the bolt installed as it was intended by design.

About the torquing, now that the bolt is being held a bit higher out of the hole by the shim, it is not bottoming out like it did before. If it is not bottoming, you are no longer torquing the bolt AGAINST something (like tightening two nuts against one another to lock them on the threads of a bolt. No longer do we have surface to surface with the pressure of the 87 in lb torque between. What you are torquing against now is the rubber of the cover gasket and the rubber of the bolt hole gaskets.

I'm thinking if I go with 1 thin SS washer like I show above, that might just allow me to crush the gasket down enough to seal while still allowing the bolt to bottom out thereby allowing for the locking effect of the surface to surface torque. If the bolts do not lock surface/surface, I think the application of a tiny bit of red locktight might be in order on this one. Especially if the bolt is only on there snug.

What part of the bolt is meant to bottoms out in the OEM installation? Is it the shoulder or the tip of the threads?



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: valve cover
11/26/11 1:21 AM

That's a good question there..IDK.I'll say...I did actually put a small dab of red locktite on mine.I didn't want to stir up any controversy about 'locking' the bolts.But yeah...I did...and they loosened up fine when I went to redo mine.

You are indeed crushing against the rubber parts when tightening without bottoming.Seems to work fine though.I never had any recurring seeps after I did mine myself.


Some guys have snapped bolts off....so I'd guess the threads(bolt shank) are what's bottoming out.No danger of that with the washers.(unless you keep turning of course and bottom it).


You said you're gonna recheck your valves in a while...maybe...you could take a bolt and run it down in the tower after you get the cover off and see just what's actually happening in there.I don't think anyone's even done that.If it's bottoming,you'd probably have some space left on the shank for the distance of the cover and gasket once installed?Be able to see just how much is there?Shorter bolts would be the same effect as washering.Maybe just carefully hack saw off a couple of threads there and smooth off the bolt cut...I think that'd be okay?More work than washering...but...

I haven't looked on the parts fiche to see IF Kawasaki actually 'redid' those cover bolts.I know they did something to the gasket in the later models...but I never checked the bolt to see if it'd been changed somehow.Perhaps they did?

You know...everyone's done the two bolt deal.I wouldn't be surprised at all that you could just do the front bolt...and call it good.The angle of the motor when sitting on the sidestand really only points out and down right there.I don't think anyone's confirmed that the thing is seeping while she's runnin.The oil at the rear of the valve cover is most likely from the blowback at the front.That'd be my guess.Doing both bolts may not even be necessary.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/26/2011 @ 1:46 AM *

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