I have 0712 ECU. Stutter has been there from new, or at least since 1000kms. Only noticed it after I changed the exhaust, so naturally I thought it was exhaust, but after trying various different combinations, restrictions and pipe sizes it made no difference. Tried different maps with no change. So I live with it. Will see after flash if there is any change. It doesn't do anything to performance etc. so it's more sound than anything else.

Interesting. I noticed some roughness between 4k-5k rpm after installing Brock's CT Dual exhaust. The problem was resolved once I flashed my ECU via Woolich system. My ECU is 0838.

What are the symptoms of this "stutter" ?

* Last updated by: roadczar on 6/4/2015 @ 12:47 PM *

"On the Stability of the Linear Functional Equation" by
D. H. Hyers

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1078310/?page=1

Hub, I'm impressed. I'm assuming you followed the math.

I'm even more impressed that it was published by a medical journal. Prolly as the proof relates to medical chemistry.

Anyway, so linear equations can be successfully approximated by other liner equations. OK, good.

This is important to prove in digital sampling systems (like an ECU with sampled sensors), and it is successfully proven.

but, So what?

meb,

'I'm assuming you followed the math.' No way. Well, if I knew the laws of (a+b) as opposed to a+b, meaning, no () is this another math move to do with them, right? See, I missed that move in the calc laws of this type of Find A and as you run thru the X to Y and finally come up with Z, it's the same concept of the reverse is Z = X times Y so the formula works either way you slice it is the law, the rule, something like that. If I only figured it out if they said, here's how a bike works. So back to ohm's law and those laws of math you need to build a motherboard and know where each part goes, build a miniboard and so on. I sure cannot build a motherboard unless I find all these clues first is theory.

With theory nothing can catch fire. The hard part is, this dragged me to someplace I found even more moves in the basic HC'ing. I hate using that term, but these are the laws of how to build a tone wheel window and think how that figures out in the timing, the software to say how to use the windows against each other.

'I'm even more impressed that it was published by a medical journal.' Where I found it, beats me? I open too many browsers when I'm stumped on a term like 'jump' and try to correlate how that term showed up in the abstract of another truth table.

'Prolly as the proof relates to medical chemistry.' I am traveling to places that chemically can only work mixing chemicals so this is somewhat related to chemistry, because without the parts moving as they do, then no can do. That was another travel stop and how I view this place called, wetletric is the earth.

'Anyway, so linear equations can be successfully approximated by other liner equations. OK, good.' Good and not good. The more I crawl up Ivan's and Justin's ass IS I am not going anywhere fast. No matter how much these guys know, how could I ask what I'm looking for so I am stuck looking.

Oh look, more absolute handcuffing abstract moves. Same moves no matter watt... NO MATTER WATT it's so beautiful the HC.

'This is important to prove in digital sampling systems (like an ECU with sampled sensors), and it is successfully proven...but, So what?'

Didn't you just walk up to a digital bike? Is not DFI a term in the book meaning, digital fuel injection?
So here is the 'so watt' no one can tell me. This is shop talk, so not too many are going to understand are more the few like you.

I am after that stumble. The why is why do some stumble with the same map thrown at it... This crapshoot at x and y. Some stumble, some code, some this and others that. THAT is watt I am after. That is a math attack in the chain of parts. What sets that set of cells once it X to Y's in that dimension is all I can think right now is a time vs. calc.

The more I dig, the more I have to think the software to hardware, no matter the soft, they can sell it in decimal is the pc. They can sell it in octal are Justin's cells. HTML and hex I'm sure could handle that software package, or say some code designer writes unicode who cares it says binary in the end.

I am after X to Y is that happening. Romes knows what I mean finding that 00000000000 starts the bike, swings the needles and they zero out the tone wheels, this that, everything is in sync is only one other move is current goes on to make it happen. So math wise, could the math close with 00000000010000000? That makes me think how could a good known ECU receive the same flash, poof goes the dash 39a or whatever the code.

Where am I? If I think with all those numbers changed on the cells, how far we've come in the speed and size of the chips and parts, if linear is the math in octal is Justin's pull from the ECU, it is like looking at linear numbers. If octal equals binary, then in the reverse is decimal, is one fat HC.

3 moves are input-calc-output.

6 moves are the next HC absolutes:
0. NOP = Do Nothing! (~~~~ Stumble?)
1. READ = Get Number the flashers put in.
2. WRITE = The number in the cell so they see it.
3. ADD = Add 2 Variables.
4. JUMP = Go to different program. (or.. Stumble Jump Shit in is JUMPshit out?)
5. JZ = Jump if answer was Zero!

1000ands of times it cycles: I don't want add the commas.

On to the next stumble is what the fuck is Jump? Lo to Hi? Hi to Lo?

Guys reading reports of a flashed bikes being slower than stock bikes has my head spinning. This has sent me in looking for on the Dyno Testing reports.

Results reported here prove quite the opposite.

Blkcasper had spent the time and money to get Dyno Testing Results for his own need to know as proof his bike was indeed faster after Flash. Here is what he had to say. On The Dyno sheets shown, Click

History for reference, Bike setup at 7900 miles dyno done on 2/13
Brocks pair block off, two brothers slip ons,two brothers db1 sound tips, flys removed, stock gearing, stock wheel base, pc5 with custom map, pilot rd 3 with 300 miles on them: Here's the dyno chart:
200hp 113-114 Trq doesn't show afr but tuned to 13.1-13.5

2nd dyno done 4/14, 21k miles, bike setup same as above with following additions:
Romans flash no pc5, streched 10 inches, pilot rd3 with about 13k on them, full tune up andd valves just done,
Dyno results: 198hp 114-115 Trq doesn't show afr but is 13.1- 13.5

Actually I'm very pleased with the results. Considering the dyno runs were done almost a year apart, hp and trq numbers are almost the same. 2hp less but 2 lbs more trq. What's hard to see in the chart's is that after the flash and the 10 inch stretch, looking at the the graphs the bike is making more power sooner, accelerating harder, and faster. 1st run took 5.161 seconds to peak out. Second run took 5.004 seconds to peak out. That's close to 2/10 of a second faster if im reading the chart's correctly. Riding on the streets I can definitely feel a difference in acceleration when running up through the gears.

As you can see. This bike makes anywhere from 195-210hp with just bolts and and full system with whatever setup you chose. As seen from many dyno charts posted. What it doesn't capture is the difference in what a flash makes with how it feels in the lower 1-4 gears. I can tell you for a fact its neutered in the lower 4 gears. With Romans flash its a totally different bike in that range. Like brocks says..Stupid fast.
Its says dyno tuning on chart. No real changes done. just the way I marked chart.
Im so happy with it. I've put over 2k miles on bike since flash. Its a beast.
Thanks Romans. .

Vic's results are pretty consistent given the sample size for the mentioned flash.

Vic's results are pretty consistent given the sample size for the mentioned flash.

Yes Agree

Important to note, The Flashed ECU above in this case was compared to a Custom PCV Dyno Tuned set up. Had this been a all stock Bike compare with no PCV the results would have been much more Dramatic in the Flashed ECU's Favor. I won't even get into the 10 over swing arm and longer chain. No need. Flashed ECU is the clear winner over anything stock. For me to even think otherwise,,,,,,

Hear are my dyno charts done per my testing.

yes but these are dyno results. Vic's test was a real world test. The bike and the riding skill was not a factor. The ECU was the only variable. I don't suppose the second hand ECU he had flashed could have anything to do with it, could it? Perhaps the flash is causing a traction issue in the real world that did not happen on the dyno with the bike that was tuned to create Vic's flash. In any case, I still think he needs to do a true race against himself with each ECU and compare. A race is a race but if it's just one gear, that's not much more than playing around. Still significant to street riders because most of us don't do a lot more than play around when it comes to racing.

On a side note: Why some may think there bike is slower, in my opinion the bike pulls some much harder down low in the 4k-8k range and there is no difference in exguast sound that a lot of times I think I'm close to red line and when I look down at tach I'm only at about 7k-8k rpm. There's still another 2k-3k rpm's to play with.

yes but these are dyno results. Vic's test was a real world test. The bike and the riding skill was not a factor

Rook if you look thru my post there were lots of miles put on bike between changes. So definately had a feel for what the bike felt like and riding impressions. Dyno Charts were just my way of verifying and making sure that the changes I made would make the bike better and not perform worse. I basically put 1500-2000 miles on my bike a month,
commuting, weekend rides, trips, two up riding with the wife, ect.

Important to note, The Flashed ECU above in this case was compared to a Custom PCV Dyno Tuned set up. Had this been a all stock Bike compare with no PCV the results would have been much more Dramatic in the Flashed ECU's Favor. I won't even get into the 10 over swing arm and longer chain. No need. Flashed ECU is the clear winner over anything stock. For me to even think otherwise,,,,,

Are you referring to Vic's bike? If so, I did not see mention of PCV or other mods...

I think Romans was referring to blackcasper's bike. had a PC5 and custom tune then went to Romans flash.

I may still have the before dyno sheet some where. My bike before pc5 custom tune made 186hp 110 ft trq. If I remember correctly. Thats just with flys removed, 2 brothers slipons, and filter screen removed. A note just to copare to hp mods made.

Before Flash

My bike before pc5 custom tune made 186hp 110 ft trq. If I remember correctly.

After Flash

198hp 114-115 Trq doesn't show afr but is 13.1- 13.5

Thank you BlkCaspers, Your #'s speak for themselves.

I watched recently as the flash world has come full circle.

1. We started off with hey this is really cool.

2. Wow, finally a mod with a difference you can feel instantly

3. Next move was there is only one flash, all the rest suck (UGH!)

4. Then onto well ok maybe that's not the case

5. Now we read "that" particular flash is slower than stock

6. Onto the fear of Bricked ECU's, Forum World Run away.

7. And where we are now with Who's has the best software.

I will certainly admit, all the BS has certainly taken some of the fun out of it. With Each and every new flash thread I want to bang my head of the table. Secrecy of whats in your Flash is the Root problem.

When the Flash software first came onto the scene I jumped in with both feet. At the time, my thinking was many of you were going to do the same. From here our combined strengths along with joined knowledge would make this software fun and Easy for all to use. You know, All long list of do's and do nots, Dyno sheets etc. Combined we could teach all who about Flashing ECU's that it is not all that hard. Job would have been Build The Readers Confidence Not To Scare The Piss Out Of Him ! Which is clearly what some of us flashers have done. Very Sad indeed, No need of it.

Sadly that hope and dream changed Direction into a Major Money Grab scenario. From here many where swayed in to the belief of Magic Pill. With recent events, many of you who were thinking about getting into this ECU flashing are making a quick exit to the closest door. Ok, tide has changed direction, Life in forum world.

Now I'm not sure where this Roller Coaster stops, but I will say this, If I were to switch your stock ECU out to a flashed ECU You Would Never Ever Let Me Take The Flashed ECU Back. Promise !!!!

Knowledge is key here. Secrecy builds more of the same.

Thanks for all the info on ECU flashing that you have posted Romans.

I will certainly admit, all the BS has certainly taken some of the fun out of it. With Each and every new flash thread I want to bang my head of the table. Secrecy of whats in your Flash is the Root problem.

I have been following the flash threads on this forum with interest as I got involved with this back on the ECU hacking forums for the ZX12R where information was shared freely.

I fully agree with you sentiments.

When the Flash software first came onto the scene I jumped in with both feet. At the time, my thinking was many of you were going to do the same. From here our combined strengths along with joined knowledge would make this software fun and Easy for all to use. You know, All long list of do's and do nots, Dyno sheets etc. Combined we could teach all who about Flashing ECU's that it is not all that hard. Job would have been Build The Readers Confidence Not To Scare The Piss Out Of Him ! Which is clearly what some of us flashers have done. Very Sad indeed, No need of it.

Sadly that hope and dream changed Direction into a Major Money Grab scenario. From here many where swayed in to the belief of Magic Pill. With recent events, many of you who were thinking about getting into this ECU flashing are making a quick exit to the closest door. Ok, tide has changed direction, Life in forum world.

Now I'm not sure where this Roller Coaster stops, but I will say this, If I were to switch your stock ECU out to a flashed ECU You Would Never Ever Let Me Take The Flashed ECU Back. Promise !!!!

Knowledge is key here. Secrecy builds more of the same.

Romans
check your mail box, sent you my map.
let me know
cheers

Romans
check your mail box, sent you my map.
let me know
cheers

Ok, Im on it.

I like what your 02 sensor is seeing, tells me allot.

Your AFR Table needs some changes. I will build you a New one and send back. From here you watch that bike smooth out and Pull.

Ok, New Maps built.

Romans AFR Table Built into your file.

Maps sent.

Untamed, when you get this you will notice I have taken the liberty to add in top end fueling numbers for you. The numbers are based on what I see from your Trim file. I have done this to greatly speed up your tuning process. Hope this helps save you some time.

Also to note, If you Map this all on your own will take you too long. Not to mention can get a little scary depending on where you make your 80% 100% Top Speed RPM Runs.

Now these numbers are designed to greatly speed up your tuning process only. They are by no means Exactly what your bike wants with your fuel, your days AR, your elevation. Fine tuning is now up to you. Keep sending me your trims before you accept them just like you have done so I do not mix them up with others.

Cheers

Romans AFR Table Built into your file.
Maps sent.
Untamed, when you get this you will notice I have taken the liberty to add in top end fueling numbers for you. The numbers are based on what I see from your Trim file. I have done this to greatly speed up your tuning process. Hope this helps save you some time.
Also to note, If you Map this all on your own will take you too long. Not to mention can get a little scary depending on where you make your 80% 100% Top Speed RPM Runs.
Now these numbers are designed to greatly speed up your tuning process only. They are by no means Exactly what your bike wants with your fuel, your days AR, your elevation. Fine tuning is now up to you. Keep sending me your trims before you accept them just like you have done so I do not mix them up with others.
Cheers

Got it,thanks very much for the help.
I'm in Zambia for the rest of the week. Will load it on Friday and ride on the week end, and will give you feedback.

What's the cost on this Flash?

What's the cost on this Flash?

Cost is 250 plus 20 for return shipping. Only Ever pay once. Can always be reached at rickromans@rogers.com

Romans, I loaded the map you sent. Haven't had much riding time but the little I have, all I can say is WOW. What a difference. It's almost as if she has all the power but now she has "manners". She pulls a lot smoother through all the gears. Haven't done a top speed run yet but hopefully this week end.
Will send map back once I have put some kilo's on it.

I understand the 13.8 you put in the upper cells, and some of the 13.5 cells. I also noticed in some cells you put "zero". In my understanding this means that in those cells she will pull stock afr's. Will autotune still monitor these cells and suggest trims on the "0" cells?

The map you sent me is baseed on what you read from my auto tune numbers and some of your own experience.

How do I interpret the readings that are suggested by auto tune? Unfortunately here is where Power Comander fall short on their tutorials (or at least I can't find anything) how do I know what is a "good" numbers and what is numbers to be ignored. I.e. When there is on/off throttle giving wrong numbers etc.

Thanks for your patience and "tutoring"

Romans, I loaded the map you sent. Haven't had much riding time but the little I have, all I can say is WOW. What a difference. It's almost as if she has all the power but now she has "manners". She pulls a lot smoother through all the gears.

Knew you would like it. Almost impossible to explain to others.

I understand the 13.8 you put in the upper cells, and some of the 13.5 cells. I also noticed in some cells you put "zero". In my understanding this means that in those cells she will pull stock afr's. Will autotune still monitor these cells and suggest trims on the "0" cells?

No, Zero will never adjust.

The map you sent me is baseed on what you read from my auto tune numbers and some of your own experience.

Yes, the percentage values in your trims gives me a good feel for what you need in the RPM areas that you have not hit yet. Manual Edits like this greatly reduce AFR slamming Rich Lean rich lean. Study every Log Run. They tell a story.

How do I interpret the readings that are suggested by auto tune? Unfortunately here is where Power Comander fall short on their tutorials (or at least I can't find anything) how do I know what is a "good" numbers and what is numbers to be ignored. I.e. When there is on/off throttle giving wrong numbers etc.
Thanks for your patience and "tutoring"

This is a massive subject. I tried to explain this once before but the teaching did not go well online. The Forum member was reving bike to redline in Neutral. I must take some blame as I did tell him to rev the bike but most certainly did not think he would redline and over heat the bike in the garage. But he did. From that day Ive been very careful what I say.

Untamed I will try again if you want to learn but please if it feels wrong or sounds wrong stop at once. If your all in we will begin.

Untamed I will try again if you want to learn but please if it feels wrong or sounds wrong stop at once. If your all in we will begin.

Point taken, if i don't understand I will ask before acting.