Any ECU flash that cannot disable fuel cut is 100% worthless and cannot be taken seriously.
"Tuner" hahahahahah he has yet to learn what has been forgotten 20 years ago.

People who support something that they know nothing about are as Jonathan Gruber says...........

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 12/9/2014 @ 7:39 PM *

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C'mon Hub... I'm waiting for your.... (you know) :)

:D

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Ivan Can you Flash My ECU'S back to EXACTLY the way they were when new ?
Of course :)

You and I have a telephone conversation in our near future, young man.

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You and I have a telephone conversation in our near future, young man.

Sounds like trouble Rick..........

Ivan

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Now now... double R is my homeboy. He pursues the tech and he and I CI2I on that.

I'm pursuing the facts.

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The facts are only ascertainable from an accurate foundation...

I'm not aware of one other than my own...... :D
A straw house will eventually collapse under it's own weight.
(It may not be ready yet, but it will eventually)

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 12/9/2014 @ 8:02 PM *

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I'm interested in knowing why anyone would want their ECU flashed back to stock in the first place. Is anyone unhappy with flashes?

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Starting to bubble up now... pretty soon gonna have to self-flush. :)

Sorry... can't help myself :D

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 12/9/2014 @ 8:05 PM *

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"I'm interested in knowing why anyone would want their ECU flashed back to stock in the first place. Is anyone unhappy with flashes?"...no..it's not that...it's 'repairing' a bad flash...that's what this is about originally...I think;)

Not that it really matters(to me)...BUT...if Kawasaki has a factory ecu program....and someone...anyone...says they can get to the files...and 'correct' something in there...that begs MY query.How in the heck wouldn't a new factory fresh ecu program(assuming it's 'bought' from somewhere...reputable...untouched and unchanged)NOT be able to be uploaded to a formatted same model year ECU.Everyone is talking about 'interpretations' of the software they're using to access these files.WTF is that?It only has it's factory interface...with a factory program loaded in.Right?The interface doesn't physically change...it's pins and setup don't change.The circuits don't change...so why can't a formatting program for this ecu be applied,then a new program be installed...factory new and untouched.I mean...the fueling files and ignition stuff and more all can be overwritten...yes?You wouldn't really need to format the ecu...just overwrite it with the factory values....yes?

Say you get an ecu...brand new,You download all the guts of it into your 'folder'....then take the tweaked ecu...format it...and upload the new stuff...it doesn't work like this?Using a Kawasaki built ecu program?I'm not getting this 'software interpretation' thing at all....sounds kinda....hell..I don't know WHAT it sounds like...something doesn't add up here...to me anyway...unless I'm like TOTALLY missing the ECU/electrics connection somehow...which I could be;).

I mean...take your computer.You format it and reinstall say,windows onto it.It works.So what's so different about this ECU program/bike electrics deal.Basically...the ECU is the 'computer'...can't it be formatted...or overwritten completely?

I would think...if the PC unit can load a map in there(bypass the factory one) that won't be changeable until the user changes it...on a laptop...then surely the flashing software should be able to do this?It can't overwrite with a factory program?I thought that's what was so great about these 'access all your bin files with this' deal...it's not?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/9/2014 @ 8:45 PM *

Ivan, it's been a while since we spoke. I hope all is well.
I was wondering if you have experimented with using the ecu to tune fueling on the ZX-14?
Hank

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Say you get an ecu...brand new,You download all the guts of it into your 'folder'....then take the tweaked ecu...format it...and upload the new stuff...it doesn't work like this?
Not with the commercially available stuff that everyone else uses... no need to repeat myself here.

Using a Kawasaki built ecu program? Nope... it's better than that :D

I'm not getting this 'software interpretation' thing at all....sounds kinda....hell..I don't know WHAT it sounds like...something doesn't add up here...to me anyway...unless I'm like TOTALLY missing the ECU/electrics connection somehow...which I could be;). You are missing it Monty

I mean...take your computer.
You format it and reinstall say,windows onto it.It works.So what's so different about this ECU program/bike electrics deal.
If you want to control the usage of the files and the software.... you need to change the file so that it will only work in your software.... pretty simple.

Basically...the ECU is the 'computer'...can't it be formatted...or overwritten completely?

The bubble has just popped like a smelly - - - - (fill in the blanks Hub) can you smell it?
Having some sweet revenge fun here.

Ivan

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Ivan, it's been a while since we spoke. I hope all is well.
I was wondering if you have experimented with using the ecu to tune fueling on the ZX-14?
Hank

I wouldn't do it all inside for 2 main reasons.

#1 - My work would be too easily stolen (just like the whole sham that people and shops are buying here)

#2 - Nobody can adjust it without ruining it with the junk software that they are using.

With a PCV, the good stuff is done inside the ecu, and the final fueling can be easily adjusted by anyone if they don't like my rendition.

Knowing the 2 facts above, why would I want my name associated with it?

Ivan

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Okay...that all makes sense.Just asking really....

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/9/2014 @ 9:16 PM *

Okay...that all makes sense.Just asking really....

I just don't want to spell it out...

some are saying the ECU can be locked(bricked)....
Bricked and locked are 2 different things... But in the SHIT software, they are the same.

if that's the case...then wouldn't a program for unlocking that really only be found from the Kawasaki source?

That's a good question.... THEIR unlock program? (if they have one)

I mean..they have SOMETHING to access the stored diagnosis files...course...I doubt Kawasaki would sell their ECU settings programs...???

What do I have that everyone else doesn't....

Something that will never be available to the public.... there are way too many hours in it and it's in a computer that never goes online.

If you want my work, you need to pay for it.

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 12/9/2014 @ 9:24 PM *

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It's a relief to know that I have a solution to my problem if Schnitz can't fix my ECU and won't replace it.

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Too bad you didn't think of coming here first.........

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To Grn: The ECU's coding is gibberish to us. Someone has to translate the code and decipher what exactly is going on. They then have the option of writing "definitions" for these sections of code that allows a "user" to type the desired value into a nice and neat field. The coding that the interface software is using will take that value and place it appropriately. Now take someone who has taken the time to decode all of this himself. Would he willingly show you "HIS" definitions that he worked so hard to crack and write? That's an easy answer. Is it magic? Not at all. Is it countless hours of tedious coding? Yes.

Now keep in mind that I am merely speculating about what is going on in this thread. I could be way off...

I hear bells...

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IVAN! IVAN! IVAN!

Grn, I think is goes something like this. Interface is: I used a spoon to dig a hole. We are all standing over the same dirt, but there is a spoon interface that can capture so much, a shovel that can gather so many files, or a backhoe that can grab all the files, meaning, really dig down deep using this type of interface retrieval software.

So what Ivan has is the backhoe interface that can grab all the files written. He blows away the rest of the flashers and their limited software. So the question to Ivan is, do we see the gear maps and do we see the idle maps for example?

Here is another thing. I am an IC (integrated chip) and all I am is what direction out of what pin is the ROM the manufacturer builds. You write the RAM that says which gate to use coming in and going out. So the hardware chips are the legs out of the IC and the software is to write who is going where? That's basically where we are at with the processor. Manufacturer sets the logic gates with one-way-diodes and you start writing code and are forced to follow the logic gate moves.

So when you hacked into the GPS with the TRE, Ivan should be seeing the cut maps limping to 16.5 AFR with the GPS hack and an 18 AFR lift when stock. Therefore, the cut is not a full fuel cut, just super lean: pinning the AFR into 18a. Again, upon the lift of the limp, there is [not] a [real] fuel [cut], but it goes rich and quiets the pop out the exhaust. So subtle on the throttle reapply, the bike never felt like it shut off... especially reading @ 16.5a.

If Ivan can see the lift maps, then who needs a TRE, if you can toggle or layer over the 16.5a cut over the 18a cut. So Ivan, for all the revenge, how close am I... are we seeing:

The cut to 16.5 AFR map?
The Idle map?
The Gear maps?

I'm still trying to figure this out. What are those filter toggles all about? Can you see those? And why do they map each cylinder, then have the ability to run 1 map for all 4 cylinders? Emissions under open loop? Can't be, because I think cars have sequential maps, and for sure the cummings diesel runs sequential maps and it's not for emissions.

Care to make the attempt at [why the] filters and sequential maps?

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Well...to Ivan...I wasn't trying to get any info about a particular software origin...I was just trying to understand how this thing(accessing)was possible.I have an excellent flash at the moment...just curious really.

And thanks Hub and Mav for making things a bit more clear to me....;)And you as well Ivan..thank you.

Care to make the attempt at [why the] filters and sequential maps?

Emissions... steal a little here and there to lower the avg grams per mile.
Some maps are used and some are not... without seeing the small details, you are shooting monkeys in a barrel... OOOOOH HAHAHAHA OHH OOOHH HAHAHAHA!!

Knowing how rich it's supposed to be is the key... ram air comes from the speed sensor... dyno AFR's are 100% useless and actually bad except for bikes that are never run anywhere except the dyno... looks great on paper, but lacks in the real world.

Bring any dyno flash to my test area and get beat by 5-7 bike lengths every time....including the junk that we are talking about here.

I have guys (who know how to ride) running 155mph in the quarter... and they weigh 225 lbs without gear, and gave me their figures taken in 95 degree humid weather (uncorrected).

Ivan

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I have an excellent flash at the moment...just curious really.

No offense Monty, but you wouldn't know a good tune from a bad tune.

Ivan

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steal a little here and there to lower the avg grams per mile.

I could see that kind of 'cheating for grams' as a theory. The many filter [radio clicks] and that selection are there in your software retrieval?

... without seeing the small details, you are shooting monkeys in a barrel... OOOOOH HAHAHAHA OHH OOOHH HAHAHAHA!!

I can understand that too. How about those gear maps. Can we see that file as in kit-ECU?

...including the junk that we are talking about here. I have guys running 155mph in the quarter.

Well, what are the chances you comp Smoke a map and a flash so he can run that 8.3 number. I don't think he is going to give out any secrets between that honor of the comp and privacy. That is an automatic given for Smoke. I trust the guy.

What I'd like to squash is the straight up flash vs. pig/flash. The proof that one is better over the other. That means your flash alone should show better numbers than the quote, 'junk' that is being discussed here.

* Last updated by: Hub on 12/9/2014 @ 11:16 PM *

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Unfortunately for you, and many others that thrive on the "info", I could care less what the mainstream gurus think.... it means nothing (to me) as well as all the records.
(records don't correlate to 90% of you street riders)

I please myself with my own work... I don't need the money or acknowledgement for my achievements. :)
Those that want my work will pay for it.... Those that think I'm B.S won't.
(Only you know what's best for you)

Spend your money where you think it will best suit you... Have faith in your favorite tuner, or pave your own road.(Or be led by the masses of incorrect info)

Info from me was never free, nor will it ever be.
I know that's the sound of sour grapes peeling (all by themselves) for some of you, but just think?
Would you work in your livelihood for free? (absolutely not)

(I never will)
And I would never share any of my hard earned/paid for knowledge for free to compromise my livelihood just to satisfy people who have never supported me. Most people pay for their education.

Ivan

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I assume you are talking about ECU Edit. Am I wrong here ?

I am not familiar with this... Like I have said before... I have my own software and hardware for this... I have access to every part of this ECU. (the software/hardware that you have does not)

My own software ? C'Mon Ivan you and both know you don't write software. You bought your "own" the same as I did. At the time I purchased the best that was out there. It does all we need it to do but yes there are unsettling issues that most definitely arise. So,,, I take it you're Not going to tell uncle Rick who's software you are using lol

Ok I get. And yes of course you are very correct in thinking I would rush out and buy the latest greatest New software Toy. This is of course how we met in the first place. Can't help it love this stuff.

I can install a 100% original file into a corrupted ECU. If the ECU has hardware damage, obviously installing any file to it will yield the same result.

Hardware damage is my belief. Currently these ECU's work very well, but in the back of my mind I know if the ECU was proper that check box would Not be Needed.

Ivan Can you Flash My ECU'S back to EXACTLY the way they were when new ?

Of course :)

Rook wrote;

I'm interested in knowing why anyone would want their ECU flashed back to stock in the first place. Is anyone unhappy with flashes?

Rook after knowing what can be done with this software no one who understands would ever want to go back to stock.

That being said If Ivan can bring these ECU's of mine back Exactly the way they were I'm Free to Reflash them free of worry something hidden from me is lurking behind the screen waiting to pop up and cause trouble later. It bothers me to the point I won't sell them. Nor will I ever until I am 1000 % sure they are perfect. Well worth the cost of repair to have the ability to start over. Agree ?

Ivan Can you Flash My ECU'S back to EXACTLY the way they were when new ?
Of course :)
You and I have a telephone conversation in our near future, young man.

Sounds like trouble Rick..........

Ivan

Lol, I can Never Be in trouble. " I always tell the Truth As I Know It To Be" Some hate me for it but the truth is all I have. As you know Ivan, I started off here years ago buying into false truths. Cost me a bloody fortune. From that day forward swore I would not let it happen to anyone else if I could prevent it. I only tell the truth gently, never force it on anyone. The want to believe in the magic pill is much stronger than you and I plus everyone here put together. That fight I Tap Tap Tap.

Now now... double R is my homeboy. He pursues the tech and he and I CI2I on that.I'm pursuing the facts.

Thank you for the vote of confidence Hagrid. Ivan is smart man, he is never going to let me see in that software box of his, because, he knows I may tell you all what's in it. Like a PCV map I think you should have the ability to see what's in your bike. But secrets are secrets booooooo

Starting to bubble up now... pretty soon gonna have to self-flush. :)
Sorry... can't help myself :D
Ivan

Lol, that's a good one. Don't self flush we need you on this. I don't want to feel the need to go in the shiter after you, but I would.

Ivan, it's been a while since we spoke. I hope all is well.
I was wondering if you have experimented with using the ecu to tune fueling on the ZX-14?
Hank

I wouldn't do it all inside for 2 main reasons.

#1 - My work would be too easily stolen (just like the whole sham that people and shops are buying here)
#2 - Nobody can adjust it without ruining it with the junk software that they are using.

With a PCV, the good stuff is done inside the ecu, and the final fueling can be easily adjusted by anyone if they don't like my rendition.
Knowing the 2 facts above, why would I want my name associated with it?
Ivan

Ivan "just like the whole sham that people and shops are buying here" Remember that software was first to come out for sale to the public. It's all we had. It does work very well and I do love it. Yes agree it's not perfect, yes issues. Not a sham though. Tell us where to buy better ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Crickets,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Ivan you for sure you have the High Ground here. Sell me the software you should have my credit card on file. I need to see what's behind the curtain.

If you won't sell it to me, tell me you know how to eliminate this bike from knowing I've made sprocket changes. I f.cking hate it and want it fixed inside ECU. Help !

The ECU's coding is gibberish to us. Someone has to translate the code and decipher what exactly is going on. They then have the option of writing "definitions" for these sections of code that allows a "user" to type the desired value into a nice and neat field. The coding that the interface software is using will take that value and place it appropriately. Now take someone who has taken the time to decode all of this himself. Would he willingly show you "HIS" definitions that he worked so hard to crack and write? That's an easy answer. Is it magic? Not at all. Is it countless hours of tedious coding? Yes.
Now keep in mind that I am merely speculating about what is going on in this thread. I could be way off..

Or could be bang on with what Ivan is using. Most definitely not what is available to us. Very Basic.

What I'd like to squash is the straight up flash vs. pig/flash. The proof that one is better over the other.

All things must be equal in order to make that blanket statement. In my study of this, always some little change thrown in to ruin the test. Debate will live on forever.

If I make a AFR line of 13.5 with a ECU and you make a AFR line of 13.5 with any pig you choose should be zero difference. The one's in the past that have show otherwise have made other changes to support false claims. From here the BS piles high.

* Last updated by: Romans on 12/10/2014 @ 2:25 AM *