My own software ? C'Mon Ivan you and both know you don't write software. You bought your "own" the same as I did. At the time I purchased the best that was out there. It does all we need it to do but yes there are unsettling issues that most definitely arise. So,,, I take it you're Not going to tell uncle Rick who's software you are using lol

It's just one of the many tools that I have to do my job... it was built for me as well as the rest of the tools that I use for the bikes that I work on.

And yes, the issues that you have had (even if it happened only once) are the very reason that I would never use it for myself, or any of my customers.
I don't like failures of any kind and I will not associate my name with things that can fail or which I have no control over even if the percentage is very low.

You have no control of any of the function of what you are using.... You are at the mercy of the product's designer on every level of it's function.

Hardware damage is my belief. Currently these ECU's work very well, but in the back of my mind I know if the ECU was proper that check box would Not be Needed.

You have no way of knowing what's wrong using the tools that you have...
You can take those bricks and throw them at the neighbors dog next time he shits on your lawn.

Ivan "just like the whole sham that people and shops are buying here" Remember that software was first to come out for sale to the public. It's all we had. It does work very well and I do love it. Yes agree it's not perfect, yes issues. Not a sham though. Tell us where to buy better ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Crickets,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yes... Crickets....... You cannot buy what I have from anyone... I have always had some exclusivity... This is my niche in life.

Ivan you for sure you have the High Ground here. Sell me the software you should have my credit card on file. I need to see what's behind the curtain.
Put you money where your mouth is Rick.... I want to see those ecu's in my mail carrier's hands by next week if you really want them fixed..

If you won't sell it to me, tell me you know how to eliminate this bike from knowing I've made sprocket changes. I f.cking hate it and want it fixed inside ECU. Help !

There are a lot of very cool things that can be done inside... including a quick shift... too bad there is no respect for intellectual property, and thievery is rampant... because of this, I have not put any of this stuff out there and never will. Someone else can take the hit for it.... not me. :)

What I'd like to squash is the straight up flash vs. pig/flash. The proof that one is better over the other

The problem with this is that if the tools that you are using don't properly modify all of the fuel tables affecting the final fueling, then the PCV will win every time. Same goes for ignition timing.

Use what works best for you... Personally, I love the PCV and the new PCFC (old juicebox pro)... anyone at any skill level can adjust it in just a few minutes to their liking.
The reasoning behind having a $15,000.00 bike with $5,000.00 in accessories and refusing an easily adjustable fuel tuner that costs less than $350.00 (in my opinion) is just stupid pride.

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"No offense Monty, but you wouldn't know a good tune from a bad tune"...perhaps...but what IS a good tune vs a bad tune then?...how COULD a guy tell the difference?.

I've had at least from 08 on SEVERAL different 'tunes'...some with PC...some with Flashes.All with either full aftermarket(quality)piping or quality slip-ons.They all purported to be..."the best".They all seemed to be 'good' tunes.Each one performed differently in one area or the other.From reputable 'tuners'.(including you as you know).If I don't know what a 'good' tune is...assuming the ones I got were supposed to be the cat's meow...how the heck would I know then a good one from a 'bad' one?Seriously...I'm a bit confused here...all these 'tunes' performed better than my stock settings...albiet...some were smoother than others...but otherwise...

Should I say then..I DIDN'T get the 'best' from guys who said theirs was the 'best'?Not fly by nights either.Actual pros.(including yours).

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/10/2014 @ 6:53 AM *

I'm sure this is where he says his is the good one...how close am I?

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My ONLY experience with modern(sport) bikes has been from the zzr1200...zx12R and up to the zx14...and 14R.I know how the factory tune feels.How it behaves.I think I have at least a bit of ability to notice small nuances of stock vs 'tuned'.My rides haven't(ever)been 'around town'....I go all day when I ride...all over...in all kinds of scenarios.If I can't tell an improvement or 'worse' performance...I guess I've been riding brain dead or something?I guess.I don't only go out 'to ride'...I constantly try different things when I'm running a 'tuned' setup...just to compare for myself.That's all I have to go by...how it feels and performs.I must REALLY be missing it....????

I'm not offended...but I am a bit confused then about just what I SHOULD be feeling when I ride with a non-stock setup...maybe someone here can guide me in the right direction as to this.....I shouldn't go by my 'feelings' when running any 'tune/flash'?

As an example...I had my bike flashed...immediately I could tell it felt different.The way it spooled up...the way it passed...the way it ran smoother.Stuff like that.I went and had it Dynoed just for kicks....it 'on paper' wasn't what I thought it MIGHT be(I should add here...my altitude factor IS significant in this..so not to imply it was flashed poorly or something)...but that being layed aside...it ran BETTER than it ever did...with other flashes in there.Those 'numbers' didn't change how the bike felt.Or how it performed...It was definitely doing better.And I was happy with it...very.I did an exhaust mod....had it flashed again for this mod...it performed even BETTER than it did before.In fact...this flash right now is the BEST performing street flash my bike(current)has EVER had.I'm not changing it for anything...it's performing great.

So IDK...what to say about 'not knowing a good tune from a bad one'...there's GOBS of power('dangerously' so in the lower gears with the KTRC off) all over the place...immediate throttle response...smooth shifting....smooth vibe free rideability.Fine fuel mileage...lower temps...smooth idle.IDK...it feels like a 'good' tune to me?I can't really imagine a 'better' one...knowing how it feels now against the stock setup(which I have an unflashed ECU for this bike and have compared both).

As a side note...my engine is totally stock....no pair valve blocks or any of that...I don't need to...it doesn't backfire.Secondaries are in as well.Brock's full system,CT single.ONE of the first things I noticed after reflashing for this add-on..was out on the road...in whatever rpm or gear...it sounded much tighter...the sound was much more GP like...along with the performance.I've never heard this sound/performance combination with any other 'tune' or flash...just sayin.

Even with a Brock's full system on my 2012..and a 'tune' from him...it didn't sound and feel like this.Not putting him down at all...but it really wasn't the same....(his was a PC tune...his mapping)...no changes to the software/programming in the ECU.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/10/2014 @ 8:08 AM *

That being said If Ivan can bring these ECU's of mine back Exactly the way they were I'm Free to Reflash them free of worry something hidden from me is lurking behind the screen waiting to pop up and cause trouble later. It bothers me to the point I won't sell them. Nor will I ever until I am 1000 % sure they are perfect. Well worth the cost of repair to have the ability to start over. Agree ?

Sure as long as we can hold Ivan at $75 for putting the ECU back to stock.

Why reflash?
timing--there's only one perfect map. Why change it once it has been flashed?
flies--who doesn't want them tuned a/o or removed?
redline--if you don't want to go over 11,000, just DON'T!
cooling fans --Ivan can make them come on sooner.---why would anyone not want that?

The way I see it, The only thing that anyone might want to change after flashing the ECU is fueling. If you flash everything but fueling and use a PC as Romans and Ivan both recommend, there should be no reason to need the ECU put back to stock...unless perhaps for resale purposes or if you want to make a warranty claim.

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"timing--there's only one perfect map. Why change it once it has been flashed?"...I don't think that 'one perfect map' has been accomplished yet?There are so many variables going on...inside the motor...and outside...conditions.Do you want to spin the wheel all the time...do NOT want to have aggressive performance.All these(and more)require timing adjustments.Then...do you want every cylinder to be individually tuned?Or not.What exhaust are you using?What's the altitude?Flies in or out.All this requires particular timing settings for the application...whatever that might be.That's the deal with these 'flashing' software things.A totally custom tune with these is possible...but each person wants a certain thing from their bike...finding that is VERY difficult IMO...I may be wrong.Without riding a guy's bike(where he rides and HOW he rides) after flashing to particular wants...it's almost impossible to get EVERY parameter perfect...if a guy gets the quality software manipulating program(s)...he could do it himself...tune it just how he wants it..and test it right there...in his environment.Long as he has an understanding of safe adjustments vs damaging adjustments.That's the key here I think...having a tuning knowledge about what will and what won't be good mechanically-wise.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/10/2014 @ 9:03 AM *

I have Ivan's flash and it runs awesome, very smooth and powerful whether it was with just my slip ons or my full system and PCV.....it does the job reliably, and search any forum, Ivan's flash has not had one single complaint or issue. Ivan's flash will work great I'm sure with any setup. Turning the fans on earlier is great too...

I went with Brocks AH2 and PCV mapping, and the flash works excellent with this setup.
And I like the idea of fuel mapping in the ECU with no piggyback, but most of the reputable tuners don't do it, so I got the PCV for my fueling for now. I have no lack of midrange whatsoever with this setup, bike will spin or come up with TC off no problem in the midrange.

I had the ECU flashed in my 2011 10R from Guhl with fuel mapping and an M4 short slip on, no problems there either.

You have no control of any of the function of what you are using.... You are at the mercy of the product's designer on every level of it's function.

If Justin is listening, he needs to update and match Ivan's behind the scenes guy/company. Because it can't be all she wrote breaking into the 'brick.' If guys are bricking ECU's using the wooly, why is not Ivan having the ASPCA after him for animal cruelty, bricking doggie next door. So Ivan has a record of zero bricks built?

You have no way of knowing what's wrong using the tools that you have...

Right... and that says, where is the gear map? So Ivan, do we see the filter page and the transmission math table page [call it]?

Call windows the basic package is the car. But there are things like java that are built into the car, and you need java to work the backhoe. Basically you are working on a windows platform, right? Java is the digging implement.

Shit, I'll have Hector Monsegur come over and work the keyboard. OuTTune you all with one keystroke. 01010010 = LOL

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Agreed...Ivan knows his stuff....as do the others...some more,some maybe a bit less.Some of (maybe most)of these 'tuning settings' are really the perspective of the guy tuning it.He's going by what others are saying they want.His bike may be totally different...so his perception of what it is someone wants could be influenced by his OWN bike's behavior.This is something that you can't 'teach' a tuner.They either understand...through experience themselves and how their bike runs...or 'guess' as to how a guy wants his bike to run.The REAL tuners have that 'feel' inside...they KNOW what the customer is asking,or wanting...because they've done it in their bikes.I mean...that's what I see anyway.

It's kinda like...say the flash guy doesn't want to 'blow' his motor...so he tunes his bike with that in mind.Okay...a guy comes and says...I want this...and I want to be assured my engine won't grenade....so the flash guy tunes the bike for good performance,but stays at a certain 'safe' level(in HIS mind)....is that a quality flash?Yes,it is...BUT could it be better?Yes...it could...if the flash guy got his own perceptions out of the equation....and that's why these flashes are different....perception and hands on experience with these motors and what they can do,or not do.Does a flash guy know really what the motors can handle?Some do...some don't.I think that's the difference really between these flashes....they're all good(in my experience)...but some were more in line with what I actually wanted.My engine(s)never grenaded...and I've pushed em with every 'new' tune I've had over the years.Let me ephasize here...IF I had been doing DRAGSTRIP runs...the outcomes of the motors COULD have been completely different.I'll never know.But for street riding and pushing the motor...I've done that plenty.

I've logged well over 150K on 14's....well over that over the years...starting in 07..with several different engine management programs(including the flashes).I say that not to strut...but to ask really.."What does it take to KNOW a tune is good or 'bad'?????Can anyone tell me difinitivley...this flash or tune is a good one?OR a 'bad' one?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/10/2014 @ 9:33 AM *

I would never make a "patch" for a check engine light.... if there's a problem with the software or definitions, it must be fixed correctly.... not fixing it by turning the light off.
You might as well use a piece of black tape.

I can see everything that you are asking me about Hub...

Returning the screwed up ECU's back to stock won't be a problem for me as long as the ECU isn't damaged inside.
Damage would occur to the ECU if the interface box did not have proper components or incorrect voltage... or who knows what?

I still have my ZX14, so I can actually test them before shipping them back to the customer.

I'm unsubscribing now, so anyone who needs me knows how to find me at my shop.

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 12/10/2014 @ 9:31 AM *

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At least We have options like Ivan to repair these bad flashes, definitely a good thing...

I think the Flash and the adding the timing, unrestricting the bike, opening the sub throttles earlier is a piece of the puzzle, but an important piece.

The fuel mapping is what makes it really go if you have anything beyond a set of slip ons. How it makes power relative to time within a tune for a particular exhaust setup. Or tuning more for a street riding setting, or however the tuner prefers, but there is an optimal A/F ratio on this bike that works for power and safety.

The reflash is still necessary to uncork the midrange, adding the timing and opening the secondaries much earlier, and the safety map needs to be removed copying over the full throttle map properly. Even with just a PCV and full pipe, you have the secondaries in place staying closed with a safety map.

And the added timing is good for a few HP I would think...

* Last updated by: bmacknyc14R on 12/10/2014 @ 9:40 AM *

Ivan's known history:

I've heard about Ivan cleaning up the yammie with his own needles.
I've heard about Ivan cleaning up because you suckers of the penile implant could not read the 1999 suz shop man-you-will-pay-for-it.
I've heard about Ivan cleaning up and smoothing out bikes with comments of praise for said tune.
I've heard about Ivan cleaning up the correct way to read a 'brick' and all the building blocks exposed.

When Ivan mentioned he's one step ahead and it was always like that for him... Yes, I do see a pattern.

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"timing--there's only one perfect map. Why change it once it has been flashed?"

...I don't think that 'one perfect map' has been accomplished yet?There are so many variables going on...inside the motor...and outside...conditions.Do you want to spin the wheel all the time...do NOT want to have aggressive performance.All these(and more)require timing adjustments.

From my recent conversation with Romans, I believe there is one "perfect" timing map. If you tune your own timing #s with a DJ ignition module, you'll find that the strongest running map will be identical to what a good tuner would flash. Of course, if you don't want to have the strongest running bike possible, then maybe you would want to use an ignition module and leave the stock timing on the ECU.

Then...do you want every cylinder to be individually tuned?Or not.

For now, I'm saying, "not." It seems tuning all to the best hp would make the bike strongest but Kawasaki tunes the outsides with one map and the insides with another. There may be a heating issue or something else they are dealing with. I might want to tune all optimally if I feel I know enough about it some day.

What exhaust are you using?

That's a valid point concerning fueling and that's exactly why I would only go with a flash and a PC.

What's the altitude?

As far as I know, there is no benefit to tuning timing for altitude as long as you have tuned fueling for altitude. Am I wrong here?

Flies in or out.

You want them out or at least tuned to as close to wide open as possible all the time on the Gen1. IDK what you Gen2 guys are doing with flies now. I recall the flies possibly having something to do with the TC on Gen2s.

The only benefit to flies may be better throttle control at small throttle positions. Heck if I can remember what flies in felt like while cornering. I don't think flies even come into play if you are at high rpm with small throttle position. All I know is my wrist is sensitive enough to control the throttle without flies. I might find the cushion of flies in dangerous now that I'm used to having them out.

All this requires particular timing settings for the application...whatever that might be.That's the deal with these 'flashing' software things.A totally custom tune with these is possible...but each person wants a certain thing from their bike...finding that is VERY difficult IMO...I may be wrong.Without riding a guy's bike(where he rides and HOW he rides) after flashing to particular wants...it's almost impossible to get EVERY parameter perfect...

Assuming we can agree that flies are not very useful on a Gen1, what else is there to address with engine tuning other than fueling and timing? If you want to do that yourself, you can go with a PC and ignition module. Then I suppose a flash simply raises the rev limiter, removes top speed limiter (Ivan), for the Gen1 ZX-14. What the hay, that's worth $300. A speedo healer or Bonneville will cost almost that much if you disable the TSL alone and then you still are stuck with 11000 redline. For Gen2s, it seems there are additional restrictions that can be overridden. ...but if you want, you can still go with a PC for fueling and an ignition module if that proves to be of any use.

if a guy gets the quality software manipulating program(s)...he could do it himself...tune it just how he wants it..and test it right there...in his environment.Long as he has an understanding of safe adjustments vs damaging adjustments.That's the key here I think...having a tuning knowledge about what will and what won't be good mechanically-wise.

Yeah, I think you're right Grn. I hope to have the software some day. Basically, you're just looking for a certain AFR#. That may change according to altitude but nothing else changes AFAIK.

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/10/2014 @ 12:39 PM *

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I feel 'digitally penetrated' is watt I feel reading this thread.

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Hmmm...well...it surprises me a little that none of the tuners here have said anything about what's a good tune and what isn't.I've been told a few times here(previously and in this topic section also) that I don't know a good tune from a bad tune...I don't know if my bike runs good or less than good.Personally...I think it's wrong to tell someone they can't discern one from the other...especially...when the tunes that were purchased were supposed to be...good tunes.Basically saying..."I'll send him a mediocre flash...charge him for it...and he won't be any the wiser".Sound like something of integrity?

If I was a tuning guy...and someone asked me what is or isn't a good tune...I'd tell em as best I could.This silence from the 'pros' is disappointing at best.

I feel my flash is the top of the flash deal right now...and I gotta say...the man who flashed it took the time to connect here and over the phone with me and actually TRY to explain the ingredients as to what he was going to do with my ecu...not only that...but he has the intrinsic knowledge of just what I wanted(listening to him describe some of the workings of these ECU's..I KNEW he was seeing way more than most here...no offense)...and he did it....not what he assumed I wanted,but flashed as his bike was...he had that much confidence in my judgement to run his flash and be totally happy with it.That means a helluva lot to me personally....too bad he had to read posts here dissing his work and all..getting grilled over his motives..his insight..all that...trying to get some info out there to us here...ironically...his has been the best flash I've ever had...and I've had a few.

I'm outta this topic as well....sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors to me..course...WTF do I know;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/10/2014 @ 7:36 PM *

..too bad he had to read posts here dissing his work and all..getting grilled over his motives..his insight..all that...trying to get some info out there to us here.

Look at the limited access to the ECU for one tuner. Look at the backhoe entry of the other brick. So if you have access to more files the more you can adjust. Look at the sequential maps you can adjust. You can't with the other.

Look, I was not dissing the work. I am studying that same action the computer takes once you hack the GPS or you have limited access to the files and it flips to the 'safety limp.' That's what I'm wondering about all this. As far as I'm concerned, you put your money where you mouth was, Grn, so if you say you found the best tune buying round after round, then it seems Cblast got the most out of the least files???

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If I was a tuning guy...and someone asked me what is or isn't a good tune...I'd tell em as best I could.This silence from the 'pros' is disappointing at best.

AFR target. There's just one AFR# to go after and they all know what it is. Only dif should be what bike, and what mods and I guess what altitude. If your bike is set up like the tuners bike, it should run like the tuners bike. That's why I plan on sticking with my PC when I flash. There may be something to the unification of mapping for all cylinders. This flash has a little of this, that one has a little of that... I'm sure you can tell if you're bike runs better or worse. that comment from Ivan was a uncalled for and disrespectful to you while you were perfectly polite. I hope it was just a case of typing stuff on the internet v talking in person. Regardless, I don't buy ANYTHING because of what the manufacturer claims. It's much better to get testimonials from customers. I don't see an Ivan Flash thread around here....although we now have an Ivan unflash thread. LOL hope that helps those of us with ailing ECUs. I'd gladly pay my $75 for it if I ever needed it.....if someone else tries first!

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/10/2014 @ 8:28 PM *

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Thanks Hub...and Rook.. for saying SOMETHING besides..."You don't know jack"LOL!!!

I have to correct my mileage figures however concerning my zx14 mileages.I was a bit 'optimistic'...after thinking it through some more...it has been more like...100K...at the most...not 150K...sorry.

"Look, I was not dissing the work"...I know...you weren't...seemed like okay questions to me....most of em anyway...until it became an accusation go round....but that's history anyway.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/10/2014 @ 8:43 PM *

Grn: No thanks for ole Mav? Coding, definitions, gibberish? *Sigh... I guess I'm better at being an arrogant ass.

PS: How come I never got copy pasta? Perhaps I was hitting too close to the mark?

Lol... copy pasta?

Have you tried Olive Garden? :D

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Actually Mav...I did say 'and others here also" but decided to take that out...somehow it was too broad a statement for what I was intending at the moment...you get mad props Mav...you're a great asset here...and a smart funny guy...Always enjoy your posts;)

"Perhaps I was hitting too close to the mark?"...wouldn't be the first time some were on the hot seat around hereLOL!!!Funny chit really;)

BTW...I think I can say with some amount of certainty...YOU PROBABLY can tell the difference between a 'bad tune' and a 'good tune';)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/10/2014 @ 9:03 PM *

Aye... Their frail attempt at fulfilling my hunger with piles of bread were insulting at best. I won't be visiting such an establishment again....

"Their frail attempt at fulfilling my hunger with piles of bread were insulting at best"...hmmm..are we talking about eating,or receiving a 'flashed' ECU from an expert.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/10/2014 @ 9:08 PM *

that comment from Ivan was a uncalled for and disrespectful to you while you were perfectly polite. I hope it was just a case of typing stuff on the internet v talking in person.

Rook, I think Grn tried everyone's tires, windshields, flashes and maps kind of leaves Ivan at the curb with the rest of the cans. Maybe that's why Ivan sent in a salvo? How close am I, Ivan?

Ivan, does your setup have an 8.3 kind of number in it? A stock ECU will do 155's, yes?
Ivan, throw a bone at Smoke and let him run your tune. He already has a brick/box going heads up with a flash only.
Ivan, think about it. All Smoke can do is open the ECU and is limited to his program. The pc map is for now a crapshoot. If yours gets the closest to the 8.3 you get bragging rights and customers. That's the deal. And if you time in with the rest of them??? Too much backhoe.

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Lol... copy pasta?
Have you tried Olive Garden? :D

I finally got one to follow you, hagrid.

Q: What do you call a fake noodle?

A: IMPASTA!!!!!!

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