Yes, Yes Yes and one sorta,,,,,, Light is on.... phew ! I was about to Tap

BTW, this isn't the actual tutorial so anything and everything goes.. This is sorta my learning path. I will put a link to this thread in the tutorial but we will have it clearly laid out step by step without diverging.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/22/2016 @ 6:59 PM *

And Bad why are you so hung up on this E-85. You don't own a fuel system that can compensate for a 30% increase fuel needed when running E-85 in the closed loop. Nor the injectors for a 20lb spring(But I Do Lol).

bet you never seen a 1200cc injector . I bet next you'll tell me they won't idle
why don't you come to Texas and find out what I got . i'll bust that ass and take yo money

the e85 will shut you up if you tested your auto tune to it.. whats the matter your scared . bet you'll never call it autotune closed loop again

I also run some shit call VP M5 it takes a 70% increase try that with your auto tune.

LIKE I SAID YOU HAVE NO CLUE
blind leading the blind

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 8/22/2016 @ 6:58 PM *

bet you never seen a 1200cc injector. I bet next you'll tell me they won't idle
why don't you come to Texas and find out what I got . i'll bust that ass and take yo money
the e85 will shut you up if you tested your auto tune to it whats the matter your scared . you'll never call it autotune closed loop again

Just ordered a set of ID 1000cc for my car But you are very correct I have never seen 1200cc. Especially for a Bike. Shear Madness. We can't buy E-85 here in Canada. I run Micro squirt with 4 extra injectors. Idles like a kitten.

why don't you come to Texas and find out what I got . i'll bust that ass and take yo money

hmmm, I should just send my bike lol You still owe me 6 Beers for Each time you were wrong. Then again teaching you how Closed loop works on your own bike would be much Easier in person. 99 percent sure I could get through. That much fun you can't buy

You still owe me 6 Beers for Each time you were wrong. Then again teaching you how Closed loop works on your own bike would be much Easier in person. 99 percent sure I could get through. That much fun you can't buy

no i'm not wrong you have never experience closed loop. when you get down here i'll have the E85 waiting with my closed loop system bike VS "your idea" of a closed loop system

i can pour the E85 into my tank without touching anything and my ECU will build its map all by itself on the fly

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 8/22/2016 @ 7:44 PM *

But you are very correct I have never seen 1200cc. Especially for a Bike. Shear Madness.. We can't buy E-85 here in Canada. I run Micro squirt with 4 extra injectors. Idles like a kitten.

WELL YOU NEVER RACED IN THE TEXAS HEAT WITH A TURBO BIKE!!!. i pump enough alcohol into the motor to keep INTAKE AIR TEMPS cool. And with M5 you can run a dry block in the heat and never need to cool the bike down .

PS the bike idles perfect and mean and smells good doing it

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 8/22/2016 @ 7:55 PM *

The list of features the least expensive Holly ECU has is extremely impressive. Much more than the full Dj network can provide for about the same price plus has features for NOS and turbo that would require even more electronics if a stock ECU was used. I can see why the hard headed racers use this. It's requires a fair amount of knowledge to use. It's not plug and play like Dj products. Holley does not make an ECU for the ZX-14. They do not make a wiring harness for the X-14 either. They make one ECU and you have to customize the wiring to fit whatever vehicle you want to use it in. Then i presume you program the fueling, timing and everything else the ECU is supposed to do. Not to mention the assumption that the user understands how to program the Holly ECU and what it does automatically, you need to find and attach the proper connectors to all parts that wire into the main wiring harness. This for a guy looking for a project. I'd almost be up for that after the basic knowledge I'v gained in the past few months but with no knowledge of how fueling works and timing??? I think the average guy is better off going with Dj and get his shit straight before venturing into aftermarket ECUs.

Jeez boys.
Mate against mate, state against state.
This motorbike thing can divide opinion right up there with politics and religion...

Bad I just read over some of your post above and they all point to a all out racing application closed loop system that you want. I agree these systems are not for you. But the debate over this being a closed loop system is a silly one.

We have a 02 sensor in play. Fueling adjustments are being made on the fly in real time with out sending info to base map. Will this be fast enough for you and the funny fuel your running ? Of course not. Keep in mind that's was never Dyno-Jets intention.

Any and all of these guys that have the software can go out of there garage with a 12.0 AFR rich running bike. Run their bike and Auto Tune will adjust their AFR to 13.5 or what ever number is placed in the table while they ride. This Is Closed Loop

Now there Max enrichment/lean must be set correctly and their AFR tables must be turned on in the RPM they are riding in but ya all good. Or should I say good enough to produce the results they require.

A touring guy has it made as his fuel AFR will always be 13.8 no matter the elevation. It Works, just Not the perfect set up for what you want. Plus you need to learn to use it.

a injector at work on a pass

plug and play ecu for dummies at zx14ninja.com

The MoTeC M130 Plug-In ECU kit is a fully programmable, direct replacement for the factory ECU. No re-wiring necessary; the adapter kit plugs into the factory wiring harness using the original sensors, fuel system and coils. All essential functions are maintained, with optional factory dash display information

MPS Holley EZ Race Harness

This nearly plug and play harness for the new Holley EFI will let you spend your time riding, not tangled up in wires. Every connection is clearly marked for a fast trouble free installation of your new engine management system. The MPS EZ Holley EFI Race Harness wires all mission critical systems on your race bike. You can easily wire your entire bike in less than a day with this harness. Builders can save time and increase job profits using this revolutionary new harness. MPS has done all the hard work for you so you can enjoy the benefits of your Holley EFI quickly. The EZ Holley EFI Race Harness comes with all the proper mating connectors, complete instructions and wire diagrams showing all wire connections.

i'm sure i look around i can find wiring harness for any ECU being made

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 8/22/2016 @ 8:14 PM *

Jeez boys.
Mate against mate, state against state.
This motorbike thing can divide opinion right up there with politics and religion...

Lol, naaa, there is no hard feeling just internet BS.

But the debate over this being a closed loop system is a silly one.

you sound like DJ now that its a closed loop system due to it adjusting the fuel trim tabs . that be for marketing purpose and to keep from getting sued.

there is no debate autotune is not a closed loop system your stupid to think it is and trying to justify it shows more stupid than i can type

Jeez boys.
Mate against mate, state against state.
This motorbike thing can divide opinion right up there with politics and religion...

no opinion here i state fact

you sound like DJ now that its a closed loop system due to it adjusting the fuel trim tabs . that be for marketing purpose and to keep from getting sued.
there is no debate autotune is not a closed loop system your stupid to think it is and trying to justify it shows more stupid than i can type

Lol, if the computer makes constant fueling changes based on a input it's closed loop. 8 beer now

Now I can clearly see from your link you like the 3500 Dollar ECU. So what's stopping you ? Are you really recommending these guys get this ? Dat B Big Boy Money. You First

* Last updated by: Romans on 8/22/2016 @ 8:16 PM *

plug and play ECU for dummies at zx14ninja.com

The MoTeC M130 Plug-In ECU kit is a fully programmable, direct replacement for the factory ECU. No re-wiring necessary; the adapter kit plugs into the factory wiring harness using the original sensors, fuel system and coils. All essential functions are maintained, with optional factory dash display information.

Now we have the wiring covered. It's the fully programmable part that I'd be concerned with. Still more for the advanced user IMHO. Cool. I love it but don't think I'm quite ready for that like I'm not quite ready for self flashing yet. Maybe I will consider for the busa since I have not yet dropped the $400 for the SB6 (and maybe they don't have any more available---but MSD does still make ECUs!).

Now I can clearly see from your link you like the 3500 Dollar ECU. So what's stopping you ? Are you really recommending these guys get this ? Dat B Big Boy Money. You First

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/22/2016 @ 8:26 PM *

Ouch! yes, I'll go with the not so plug and not so play Holly. Those stock wiring harnesses are so ugly anyway.

Yes, Rook Really ? If money were no object I would have one. But that's allot of scratch if you're not a pro racer. So much for tuning thread. Now let's learn to use the software of that bad boy. Something tells me 3500 won't be enough where this is going. Double ouch

there is no debate autotune is not a closed loop system your stupid to think it is

and trying to justify it shows more stupid than i can type

Auto is closed, technically.

Bike now references the 02 sensor to provide a constant forever changing Air Fuel Ratio that was set in the table by the user. Hub how is this technically ?

Why, that's right down my alley

Naaa is ok, I got this and can prove it at will. I think he knows it Now ? Getting mad at me.

If you watch Rooks video you can see Rook moves cell cursor forward to fast. His 13.1 would have rolled up without ever touching a thing.

Rook, do it again. Prove to all in the video. Don't move to the next cell until you show 13.1 or change to 13.5 to prove. Bike always makes what you tell it.

Auto is closed, technically.

technically is right . it only close loop to the fuel trim table and you have to accept or ignore changes to the base map. but you know as i know a true "closed loop system" changes base fuel map. you can pour anything into the gas tank and 14.7 comes out the exhaust pipe. you can not do that with autotune so to say its a closed loop system is like calling a janitor a cop because they both pick up the trash

I just don't get why we don't set trims to +/-100% and let it go closed loop all the time -- except that we know Autotune makes bad trims under certain conditions.

I think the main reason you wouldn't want to do that is what you said here Rook, sometimes the system "mis-adjusts" the fueling. I personally think of Autotune more as a tool for tuning than a closed loop feedback system to auto-adjust the fueling on the fly.

PS: Also, the autotune system only uses 1 sensor to make its adjustments and this sensor is slow to report data (ie slow sample rate). If you make sudden changes to the fueling needs of the engine (ie, nitros or drastic changes to the gas being used) I don't know how quick the autotune would be able to make the needed adjustments to compensate.

As I mentioned earlier, fuel maps aren't precise, there are tolerances that the engine can work within, your goal should be to get as close to the optimum setting for your application, save that map and make future adjustments as you make changes to your vehicle or your requirements change (ie, max power to max fuel economy).

Badzx14r,

you need to test

I take it you tested this, can you please post a video of setting the AFRs and then your test ride? If you didn't why did you bother to post this? I think my exact words were:

Before you post a reply stating that this is wrong, for the love of God go test it, please don't post things like "well, I haven't bothered to test this out but you're wrong"

* Last updated by: Nightmare on 8/23/2016 @ 8:14 AM *

Rook, do it again. Prove to all in the video. Don't move to the next cell until you show 13.1 or change to 13.5 to prove. Bike always makes what you tell it.

6 pages for that?

I'd have to do it on the roadside to avoid complaints from the neighbors. I have to do this again anyway so I will film. I see what you mean though. The AFR gauge on the screen isn't going to 13.1 in every cell but it is increasing toward that number as I do the run so Autotune is correcting on the fly. You see the trim on the fuel adjust gauge and the AFR approaches target as trims are automatically (albeit temporarily) applied.

you know as i know a true "closed loop system" changes base fuel map.

1bad, I will most definitely check into aftermarket ECUs for the next bike but as mentioned, that's a whole new frontier that seems to entail a lot more than just AFR and ignition. I think aftermarket ECUs might be a great step for Romans since he has flashing in his repertoire.

I personally think of Autotune more as a tool for tuning than a closed loop feedback system to auto-adjust the fueling on the fly.

Well, I did a couple 60~79% TP runs in 6th gear yesterday to 7000 rpm. Much easier on the tire, more relaxed and I'm sure better trims. Still gonna take at least 3 runs as 5th gear did. I might be able to stomach 8000 rpm but that's about all after that last brush with the law. Using velcro with my steering stem mount to hold the laptop open.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/23/2016 @ 9:42 AM *

LOL, Bad, stop racing and become a joke writer, or create a routine and hit the road on your own. I'll say technically:

Yannhi has an 02. If yannhi uses a flash, disables 02, it's in method = Limp.
Bad has no 02. If Bad disables the APS, it's the same method = Limp.

Bad is still in FULL open loop. Bad cannot go into a full stoich closed loop with the atmo sensor still in the [open] loop. So technically, you are in open loop with a pc type [holley]-ECU reading a WB-02 @ 20 spits a second or watt-ever.

If the h-ECU disables the atmo sensor in its own black box, it's reprogrammed to work off the WB-02. Because you, nor this box is going to use a 0.01 to 0.90v (under a volt) trigger tool like a NB-02 sensor, right? So technically, you are in a closed loop kind of not really closed in a real stoich loop @ 14.7 w/WB-02.

So bad has no clue if he thinks best torque is at 14.7 if he's running @ 14.7 is what he's saying. And saying the 02 knows if it runs VP or pump gas is more a chemical reaction to [any] 02 sensor is being too wet or too dry at the metal contacts of the sensor.

That's enough right there to convince me I'm not ready for an aftermarket ECU.

I take it you tested this, can you please post a video of setting the AFRs and then your test ride? If you didn't why did you bother to post this? I think my exact words were:

Yeah 7 years ago this test was done and every time i use the autotune and if you dummies want to believe autotune is a self mappping close loop system "please do". It just shows how stupid this forum and members are to knowledge of what tuning and how products work. god help the people who let y'all work on their bikes or ask for advise . nothing worst than misinformation but the internet is full of it !!!!!!

now you know why the hayabusa is still king of the track at least "some" their members understand self tuning closed loop.

i hope nobody ever brings up the subject of reading spark timing off a ground strap on a spark plug !!!

can not expect much from guys that can not even oil their chain properly !!!

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 8/23/2016 @ 12:10 PM *

LOL, Bad, stop racing and become a joke writer, or create a routine and hit the road on your own. I'll say technically:

Yannhi has an 02. If yannhi uses a flash, disables 02, it's in method = Limp.
Bad has no 02. If Bad disables the APS, it's the same method = Limp.

Bad is still in FULL open loop. Bad cannot go into a full stoich closed loop with the atmo sensor still in the [open] loop. So technically, you are in open loop with a pc type [holley]-ECU reading a WB-02 @ 20 spits a second or watt-ever.

If the h-ECU disables the atmo sensor in its own black box, it's reprogrammed to work off the WB-02. Because you, nor this box is going to use a 0.01 to 0.90v (under a volt) trigger tool like a NB-02 sensor, right? So technically, you are in a closed loop kind of not really closed in a real stoich loop @ 14.7 w/WB-02.

So bad has no clue if he thinks best torque is at 14.7 if he's running @ 14.7 is what he's saying. And saying the 02 knows if it runs VP or pump gas is more a chemical reaction to [any] 02 sensor is being too wet or too dry at the metal contacts of the sensor.

The PICTURE OF YOUR BIKE SAYS who be in limp mode
picture worth a thousand words

I think aftermarket ECUs might be a great step for Romans since he has flashing in his repertoire.

Rook I would have one already if I thought I could personally make use of it. I work by the hour and for me to justify spending that kind of doe I would Need to see some "Serious Horse Power Gains" over what I have already. And that my friend is not going to happen with a new ECU. My bike managed to scratch out 445hp at the rear wheel with none of that. So will always advise Keep it Simple or,,,,

Now if your a pro Drag racer ya sure. This warrants a possible return. And yes, if your that guy go for it. I'm with ya.

Don't get me wrong I like new toys as much as the next guy but I won't be buying one of those ECU's. Never Ever going to happen.

I loved this video that Bad linked. Bad Ass for sure. any man burning this kind of fuel that fast is having more fun than me lol