445hp at the rear wheel

Now if your a pro Drag racer ya sure. This warrants a possible return.

its not your its you're even a dumb white boy knows that
AND
don't have to be a PRO i'd love to see you launch 455rwhp at the dragstrip !!!!

we be gang banging you like a used up prom queen

ITS been fun learning from you guys but i got to go prep my bike for tomorrow nights racing

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 8/23/2016 @ 1:43 PM *

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"Yannhi has an 02. If yannhi uses a flash, disables 02, it's in method = Limp."

Jeez Hub, that brings back some bad memories for me right there.
But it all contributes to the overall learning process I guess.
Or at least I think so after reading this thread...

* Last updated by: yannih on 8/23/2016 @ 1:54 PM *

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ITS been fun learning from you guys but i got to go prep my bike for tomorrow nights racing

Thanks for bringing up the Holly ECU idea, 1bad. I'm totally serious, I'd love to undertake that project and I'd go with the custom made harness and everything....but that's for the next bike.

You aught to post here more often for us dumb SOBs. You come up with good info after a page or two of trash talking. Thanks again for all the help on that vale lash adjustment a few years back.

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this 1bad.

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Aftermarket ECU duscussion petered out right up there^^^^^ with a few more jibes in the next few posts.

Three runs in the 60% column and no big trims but once again, I notice the 4000-5000 range has the largest with some 3s, 4s and a couple 5s. Those cells are zeroing out with progressive runs. Like the other TPs, this area is the last to have trims. I wasn't quite sure with the 40% column but it seemed that one also required attention in the 4000 5000 range. There's something about my 4000rpm to 5000 rpm range that is consistently different than what Romans' map is tuned for. Not a huge difference but I see the pattern repeat from 20% onward and maybe even before that. I'm guessing it's a difference in flow between the Tsukigi and the pipe Romans tuned for or his target AFR is is different than mine in that zone or both. They are probably similar in bottom end and apparently identical at the top because I get no trims at all up there. That 4000-5000 rpm zone is off a bit.

EDIT: I think it is more likely that Autotune has a hard time gathering trims in the first half second or so of a run. I see the rpm jump back and forth when i initially hit the throttle. If I was splitting my runs into 2000-5000 runs and then 4000-8000 runs, I probably did not get very good trims at at the beginning thousand rpm of any of those. That would explain trims at 4500 rpm run after run. Autotune is not able to get it right but it tries again every run.

Saw two cops on the main roads where I'm resisting the temptation to do my runs. One sitting with his headlights on a short distance from the highway (dead giveaway you see car parked anywhere with lights on in the day it's a cop) and one followed me through town where I ride like a choirboy. Both Staties. They must have had their morning meeting.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/16/2016 @ 6:06 PM *

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its not your its you're even a dumb white boy knows that AND

Is this English ? Lol You are funny Bad. I hope you mean to be.

don't have to be a PRO i'd love to see you launch 455rwhp at the dragstrip !!!!
we be gang banging you like a used up prom queen

LMAO, bad I love it. Ok, Here is one for ya, you bring that 280hp turd of yours onto the street (if you can even drive that gas guzzling overheating monster, that runs out of that Funny Fuel every 2 miles, of which you can buy no where but the track) and I'll Mop the floor with ya. Race starts at 100mph. Not being mean here but you did lead with your chin. Here kitty kitty LMAO,

I ride a everyday street bike Bad, I know you know this, I would never play you in your own backyard. I may be a slow fucker as you say but I know where and how to run you down. Then i'll go get you some fuel and come back. I'm not a prick you know.

Oh ya and the definition of closed Loop is ? 9 beers please. Romans for the Win,,,yes ?

Being a Dick is Fun. Not my way but I am sadly enjoying it.

Thanks for bringing up the Holly ECU idea, 1bad. I'm totally serious, I'd love to undertake that project and I'd go with the custom made harness and everything....but that's for the next bike

that was all i'm was saying . there is better products starting from about the same money as the dynojet stuff. and do alot more

ps once you got the holley hook up you would not need to do nothing to it but put your desired AFR and spray the house down. and use the traction control to hook to the street

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 8/23/2016 @ 6:32 PM *

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Being a Dick is Fun. Not my way but I am sadly enjoying it.

better than being a pussy

I ride a everyday street bike Bad, I know you know this, I would never play you in your own backyard. I may be a slow fucker as you say but I know where and how to run you down

only if i let you . the term is called " backing into " . that way you would think the race was close and run me again.

another term im good at is called "sandbagging" BUT that applies to ET racing

you Canadians really have no clue to racing . this ain't bobsledding or ice skating lmao

one these days i'll need to teach you guys about air shifters or electric shifters and engine driven clutches.

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 8/23/2016 @ 6:45 PM *

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Rook I just watched your video. I want you to try this and Film.

1. Place 13.5 in your AFR table. This needs to be in the 0% throttle column from 500 750 1000 1250 RPM.

2. Set your Max/Min to plus 15% and Minus 15%

3. Set Run Time to start Tuning at 1 seconds

4. Start Bike, keep your hands off the throttle.

5. Look at bottom right of your screen. Green light will come on Auto tune Running

6. 02 Sensor is Now in play and bike is now operating in closed Loop.

7. Turn camera directly onto your computer screen so all can see.

Bike will run at 13.5 in seconds without you ever touching a base map. This is a "Control System" that takes reference from a sensor input to effect change. No matter how primitive some think it is, "changes" are most definitely being made,,,, Bike fueling is operating in the closed loop.

Now Watch the AFR on your screen. Listen to your bikes sound. You will hear the computer hunting for your perfect AFR.

This is a basic test to start you all off. This will show you that your system is working. Green Light must be on ! The light will only be on in the AFR Table cells that you have made a entry. Make sense ?

If light does not come on can par plug has issues.

Once this is complete and all understand what to look for the test can now be performed at 70 MPH. Watch your AFR become exactly what you told it to in your AFR Table.

I should have got you all to perform the basic test before I instructed any of you to move forward.

I hope this actually has some value and helps you become more familar to whats running in your bike.

Auto Tune Works. it's just another tool we need to learn how to use. No Biggy

Hope you show a close up of your screen. This will actually help all who read this messed up thread lol

If you guys have any questions please ask

Yannih, I ride a limpcycle like bad said. It took years to figure out open, closed, limp loops. Bought an aprilia just to pull the 02 off and read the AFR. The money I lost selling the bike, the pc equipment, I could have walked away with a holley. But you figure, tuition money learning the 02 on your own time (years piling up), the pc on your own time, the wooly setup, more out of pocket ECU's, what I figured out on my own was priceless.

So when I hear guys like bad calling a loop some sadass loop and coins it his way, I know enough that the beers keep piling up in Romes' fridge.

OK, bad, you're up or shut up. Who brings home the money tomorrow? Don't give me that excuse shit, your holley didn't hula, I should'a changed loops LOL.

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Naaa, call this a shakedown test before the 'how to'

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you Canadians really have no clue to racing . this ain't bobsledding or ice skating lmao

Ya Ya, 8 Months of winter I know, heard them all

only if i let you

I so wish you lived closer. Loser pays for the steak, rare will be fine, thanks for asking. And don't bring that I forgot my wallett Bull Shit Either LMAO. I'll B at the restaurant waiting for you.

So when I hear guys like bad calling a loop some sadass loop and coins it his way, I know enough that the beers keep piling up in Romes' fridge

I am getting thirsty. Now going to have a steak and Pints,,,, What a great day

I so wish you lived closer. Loser pays for the steak, rare will be fine, thanks for asking. And don't bring that I forgot my wallett Bull Shit Either LMAO. I'll B at the restaurant waiting for you.

quit trying to fire me up technically closed loop like advertised as I said before . its still not a closed loop system. when you can change to any fuel or AFR you want with the autotune and the system operates to the desired AFR's on the fly get back to me !!!!

I really wish you was closer so we could do some testing on the track . then you'll understand and get hook on racing

I log my first 3 passes down the track every time I go to the race track WITH my pod300 with autotune and PCV and the logs say its not a closed loop system . after 6 years of use I would think it would had time to build a perfect map !!!! my holley did in 3 passes

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 8/23/2016 @ 8:43 PM *

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Rook I just watched your video. I want you to try this and Film.

OK. Save current adjusted map and pop in the base map again set target AFR for 13.5. Will do idle tomorrow morning while it rains and hopefully get an evening ride at speed if dry. Don't know about 70 if I'm holding it there. 60 mph, no problem and that should work fine. I can turn autotune on at the roadside set for 60 seconds and get up to a steady 60 mph.

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OK, not like night and day but if you look closely at what’s happening, you see that AT is indeed adjusting the fueling in a closed loop fashion. It would have been much better if I would have shown my LCD’s AFR gauge because that was operating the whole time and would have shown the bike was running at 13 AFR on its own. Take my word, I did not look at my LCD but did go through the video one frame at a time from the point the green AutoTune Running light comes on. There are 8 frames that pass before the AFR gauge becomes active. Ran in real time that is less than a tenth of a second. The first frames shows the AFR running at approx 12.9 and AT instantly makes a -1 adjustment lean it out. 16 frames later AFR leans to 13.1 and AT makes a -2 adjustment. 7 frames later, AFR leans out to 13.2 and AT makes a -1 adjustment, then back to -2 again two frames later. Idle drops below 1100 and AFR drops to 12.9. Too rich. AT makes a -3 adjustment. AFR remains at low 13s and AT adjusts -4 and finally -5, AFR goes up to 13.5~ 13.8. Too lean. AT fattens it up with -1, too fat then -4. AFR is restored to mid 13s. AFR leans out to low 14 and AT fattens with -3 now.

Ya I see what’s happening but pretty hard to see it in action in video form. Happens way to fast and fluctuates way too much. But there ya have it.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/24/2016 @ 2:41 PM *

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You may have noticed I forgot to check the Require Run Time box. Look like AT took the 20 seconds to start up but I have no idea what it was doing with adjusting fuel up to that point. We might have seen a much more dramatic change if no adjustments were made before AutoTune came up on the display.

I went out and repeated the test with the Require Run Time box checked and looked exactly the same....so my guess is that AT either waited 20 seconds because a new run time was entered or else AT just doesn't come on for 20 seconds by default. Either way, saw the AFR start at 12.something and go to 13s.

Both videos show some dramatic + trims as soon as the engine starts but there is no AFR displayed and the AutoTune Running light is not on....So IDK what might be happening with AFR and fuel adjustments during that time.

We got rain here so might have to wait on the road tune vid. I have other crap to do anyway. Cooking and other stuff.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/24/2016 @ 4:06 PM *

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I'd be curious to see what the AFR looks like with AT shut off.

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I'm not sure how much this shows the person who is not familiar with autotune. Again, there is not a huge dif between the the AFR the map was producing and the AFR AutoTune corrected to.Could probably orchestrate somethng more compelling by tuning a cell very rich and then unleashing Autotune on it with a 13.5 AFR.

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Congrats Rook. That video shows clearly what someone new to the software needs to see. If a picture is a thousand words video is a million. Now this is actually helping people. Well Done

Now in your short ride in the low rpm you can clearly see how and where cell tracer goes to on Throttle Lift. Hope this brings to light the need to do the Neutral No Load runs and then go into AFR table and turn those cells Off.

You can also see clearly where the No load and load on the motor makes the jump over into next throttle position.

Now this was very basic test for all to copy if need be. Beautiful starting point. Lap top is Not necessary but is a very good teaching tool. Perfect at showing your Exact TPS if you don't have the POD 300. This will help you tune each row. With all this info on display in front of you most will learn quickly their cookie cutter mapes need work.

Cheers and once again well done.

Lap top is Not necessary but is a very good teaching tool. Perfect at showing your Exact TPS if you don't have the POD 300.

The LCD will show a digital TP gauge but I find cell tracer much easier to refer to for opening the throttle to the right column.

Now in your short ride in the low rpm you can clearly see how and where cell tracer goes to on Throttle Lift. Hope this brings to light the need to do the Neutral No Load runs and then go into AFR table and turn those cells Off.

Well, actually that was one question I've been saving but since you brought it up...Why tune in Neutral at all? I can hear you face palming all the way from Canada but--wouldn't the engine hit the same cells in 5th or 6th gear while you slowly rolled the throttle open? In fact, it would be easier to hold the rpm/TP in a given cell with some load on the engine and you'd avoid the whole issue of the engine getting hot and the inherent stress of the engine free spinning under zero load for almost a minute and at some pretty good rpms. Yeah, the exhaust reverberations would screw up the 0% column but you could tune the 0% TP in Neutral beforehand and then zero out the target AFR for that column to do the rest on the road. That would work, wouldn't it? No heat, no free spinning, no noise in the neighborhood...? Just do the whole 2% column from 3000 rpm and then keep rolling back slowly. If the idea is to give Autotune a good long whiff of the exhaust in these cells, it seems to me this would be best done on the road (except for the 0% column which will suffer from deceleration trims and exhaust revern when you cut throttle).

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I'm willing to just accept that tuning the whole fuel dump stairway in Neutral is simply "the right way to do it" but seems like it could be done as described above more efficiently once you have a grasp of what is happening with the throttle and the path it follows in the table.

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Good video Rook.

Romans - I know road tuning is the best, because of real conditions and ram air. This might however put some people off especially when they hear they will be doing 60-100% runs in 5-6th gear. Can this be done on a dyno and then cleaned up on the road?

There's something about my 4000rpm to 5000 rpm range that is consistently different

I have noticed something similar. If I roll on slow and steady I get a lean figure showing on my gauge. If I hold it there it will autotune back to 13,5. However if I carry on riding and go back that rpm range I get the same lean result again. If I
Romans - Is there something there in that RPM range?

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Now in your short ride in the low rpm you can clearly see how and where cell tracer goes to on Throttle Lift. Hope this brings to light the need to do the Neutral No Load runs and then go into AFR table and turn those cells Off.

Well, actually that was one question I've been saving but since you brought it up...Why tune in Neutral at all? I can hear you face palming all the way from Canada but--wouldn't the engine hit the same cells in 5th or 6th gear while you slowly rolled the throttle open?

I'm willing to just accept that tuning the whole fuel dump stairway in Neutral is simply "the right way to do it" but seems like it could be done as described above more efficiently once you have a grasp of what is happening with the throttle and the path it follows in the table.

I have noticed something similar. If I roll on slow and steady I get a lean figure showing on my gauge. If I hold it there it will auto tune back to 13,5. However if I carry on riding and go back that rpm range I get the same lean result again. If I
Romans - Is there something there in that RPM range?

Story Time, bare with me.

Ok, I've lumped these questions together as they very much relate. First, Rook the staircasing as I have been calling it has to do with fuel dumping after throttle lift.

Now this so called un burnt fuel drove me crazy for years as to Why, Why ,Why the hell is my 02 sensor sending signal of Rich, which in turn references the software, saying bike is running rich.

Soooo, from here I was accepting Trims. Next ride out Same shit running rich on lift. Repeat the same test running rich accept the trims, until my AFR was hitting 18. Grrrrr. Accepting Trims was my issue.

so with head spinning started asking myself why ever accept ? so don't accept, lets just rip it all out call Auto tune a Dud like everyone else,,,, Now that was giving up,,,, NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN ! Sooooo

From here I Scotch Locked a Laptop to my bike. Rolling Dyno is now complete. Cell tracer showed me the whole story but still the information was wrong. I stared at the info for hours,,, and over through my head I ran the test.

My OCD had me changing sensors, running a second sensor, I had a data logger with two 02 sensors running at the same time. I was comparing one to the other then switching sensors out etc. I almost went mad. So I walked away for a bit.

Then the light came on,, thinking sensor is to slow. Software is to slow. But NO, Not really,,,

The Software Is Wrong in it's speed to recognize that forward throttle motion has stopped and throttle lift had begun.,,,, So tuning should have stopped on lift,,,, BUT IT DOESN'T ! So the Bike was still running in the closed loop on Throttle lift. BINGO,,,Eyes open.

Now I know the problem how do I trick the software into knowing I have let off the gas ?. ANS, shut that area off in the AFR Table.

I called this staircasing as this bottom end is where the throttle goes forward backward forward backward. Software goes crazy always pulling fuel as a simulated Rich condition is shown. If you accept trims your bike gets leaner and leaner. Now this issue is in the bottom end where you ride every day.

So in my thought some cars run open loop in the bottom with fueling fixed and run closed loop up top for safety to the motor, so why not do the same ? The Neutral Test was born.

Make sense ?

So is there something in that RPM range ? Answer is yes, adjust your staircase. Blind Auto Tune to that Exact position or this will Haunt your running AFR Forever.

Now a little trick to recognize where this is happening is, always note the large minus numbers in the Exact throttle position.

Remember, 4000, to 5000 is the RPM you ride in the most. Whether anyone cares to admit it Lol. Go forward throttle motion and get your AFR perfect then turn that area off. This will get easier.

Am I rambling here ? I hope I'm making sense and I have answered your questions. This is not supposed to be hard and believe me it's not. I'm hoping to teach you guys something that took me years in a very much shorter period of time.

It's good when you guys ask question, shows me where to begin. i'm sure I have missed some obvious points ???? Work in progress.

The Software Is Wrong in it's speed to recognize that forward throttle motion has stopped and throttle lift had begun.,,,, So tuning should have stopped on lift,,,, BUT IT DOESN'T ! So the Bike was still running in the closed loop on Throttle lift. BINGO,,,Eyes open.

Now I know the problem how do I trick the software into knowing I have let off the gas ?. ANS, shut that area off in the AFR Table.

I think my eyes are opening. Before I expound on or ask more questions about your explanation, let me query you this:

By "throttle lift" do you mean the exact same thing as throttle cut to 0%, rpm winding down to idle?

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/26/2016 @ 9:51 AM *

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